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Newly planted roses not doing anything- please help

RG100
14 years ago

Hi

I planted two roses - Tropicana and Peace in early May. Since then Tropicana has shed almost all its leaves and Peace seems to be standing still. I bought them from Costco and they were quite healthy and green. Is that a sign of distress? The weather has been quite cool up here. COmpared to this I planted Lambert Closs - a hardy rose about a week ago and it has really taken off.

Is there anything I can do or just wait?

Thanks for your help.

Comments (27)

  • michaelg
    14 years ago

    Unless you really tore the root ball to shreds, there should not be that much transplant shock. So I'd guess they defoliated from too much water, too little water, or a freeze of -3 Celsius.

    Growing hybrid teas in zone 5 is not easy. You will need to spray fungicide, provide winter protection, and start over from ground level if they survive winter. You may find that hardy roses are much more rewarding.

  • RG100
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    You are right. Hardy roses are much better-but I have had success with Iceberg Intrigue and Rainbow Sorbet - kind of floribundas and HTs. And I knd of got carried away when I saw these two.

    When I was planting them the whole base kind of fell apart as it was mostly soil and the stem with the root attached came out. But I tried to plant it with as less pain as possible. I guess I will just have to wait.

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  • michaelg
    14 years ago

    Probably transplant shock then. They will refoliate in about two weeks.

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Hi, Ritug! I have transplanted my new roses in horrible ways. If a poor lovely rose has ever screamed, it would be screaming, poor things. And I've torn a rootball to shreds as Michael described. But I use a wonderful sea tea mix called Garden-Ville Sea Tea. If you use it at super dilute mix your roses will bounce back in no time. My tree rose took only 3 days to recover from its torn roots and! it produced tiny flower buds the morning right after my horrific transplant (I immediately fed it the super-dilute sea tea at the transplant). Instead of the 1 TBS. per qt. I use 1 TBS. per gallon + 2 qts. extra water for badly traumatized roots or 1 TBS. per gallon for a new healthy and successful transplant rose(can be divided between your two roses and any other excess can be fed to other plants. )That sea tea is the perfect balance of nutrients that a transplant-shocked rose desperately needs...The only thing I thought that the sea tea couldn't cure was the shriveled yellowed tiny baby band that I received from Heirloom roses and I did write a previous post that this was the only plant that the sea tea couldn't save. But then just today, I found 6 new very! healthy baby leaves and another startup branch. So even this sea tea is a real miracle worker no matter how sickly and dead a baby band looks... I feed also once every 4 days until my roses are firmly established, gradually increasing up to the normal dose once I see nice texture and growth in the plant. P.S. warning, baby bands will always need the super-dilute mix, not full dosage.

  • jerijen
    14 years ago

    Is it kelp, Serena?

    Jeri

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Hi, Jerijen, the ingredients are Fish Emulsion, Humate, Compost Tea, Molasses, Seaweed Extract, Water (all in descending order-of course the first being the main ingredient). It has a very strong thick black color like smelly fishy oyster-soy sauce... That Garden-Ville Sea Tea is a true miracle resurrector and I owe my sanity to it for saving my roses from my butcher ways!

  • RG100
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks serenasyh. This looks like a transplanter - which I think I had added while putting them in the soil. I will look for this product - not sure if it is available in Canada though. WOuld it be ok to add some transplanter and fish emulsion now?

  • karl_bapst_rosenut
    14 years ago

    There's a way to transplant potted roses to avoid loss of soil which also causes loss of feeder roots which fall away with the soil. Until the feeder roots grow back there is no way for the plant to take up moisture. This results in wilting and leaf loss. Adding more water is not the answer. Without feeder roots the plants can't take it up.

    When transplanting potted roses I prepare the hole making it twice as wide as the pot. Usung a good razor knife I then cut the bottom loose from the pot but leave it. I cut the opposite sides down about 2 inches and secure the cuts with rubber bands string, or masking tape. I continue cutting the sides until the cuts are over half way down at which point I secure them as I did the top. I then cut the two sides completely down to the bottom. When finished the pot is in three pieces held together by the tape, string, or rubberbands with the loose bottom. I carefully pick it up holding the bottom in place so the bush doesn't come out. Once set in the hole I pull the bottom out from underneath the pot. I pull soil into the hole until it comes up to the lower tape/string/rubber band. Cut them at this time. The soil already pulled into the hole will prevent the lower portion of pot from separating. Continue filling the hole until just the top tape/string/rubber band is exposed. Cut them and fill the hole until just the tops of the two pot sides are exposed. Pull them straight up and continue filling the hole.
    With bare root grafted bushes in cold winter growing zones position the graft so it's 4-6 inches below the soil surface when finished.
    When finished your bush will not know it's been transplanted and you'll lose no soil from the root ball.
    Water well and often until the bush shows signs of growth. then water normally.
    Planting this way your potted bush will not suffer any transplant shock.

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Actually Ritug, I posted earlier on an experiment I did... I used baby lavender as the test subject control group. One with typical "transplanter" B1 vitamin... The other with the super dilute sea tea... The transplanter vitamin solution had absolutely no effect (no change) but the baby lavender fed with the sea tea doubled in size in 2 days time. My sea tea application isn't a transplanter, but a 2.1-3.3-2.2 liquid fertilizer that I took and watered down (as described above)... I have never again needed my transplanter solution. My new roses and my badly traumatized tree rose absolutely love the super-dilute sea tea and my tree rose recovered in record time only a week-and-a-half to return to its original condition, minus the 5 blossom buds which it didn't have before the transplant... You can try a super dilute fish emulsion, but the advantage of my sea tea is that it has the "perfect" combination of fish and seaweed and all the other "goodies"....

    I found a website on it http://www.garden-ville.com/4429794_36600.htm so you may be able to order it online... Lol! I am one of "those" who would have ordered roses all the way from Canada down to Kansas (actually looked up Pickering) because I loved their reviews, but their bareroot orders were over by the time I found them...

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Hi, Karl! Your pot method works great for light pots (like my RU roses) but I couldn't get it to work for my tree rose, because the pot was so thick and almost impossible to cut even with 3 new brand new exacto blades (it took 3 to slice all 4 sides to the edge, but I still couldn't slice off the bottom) and when I tried to pry the cut sides from the pot, I ended up with a huge horrible disaster zone of torn roots, a tree that ended up at a 90 degree tip over, and almost half the soil was gone with 2/3rds of delicate feeder roots completely destroyed... And I had to call my neighbor to remove the tree again! and help whack the sides of the pot because both roots and soil were still entangled and stuck to its pot. But that sea tea did save it...Keeping the soil soft and moist with the sea tea, but not swampy, was its miracle cure. 5 brand new buds the morning after the transplant, 3 days started really perking up and full recovery within a week-and-a-half... My guess is that anchor roots become a rose's emergency backup power drive and that they take over when everything else has been destroyed.

  • karl_bapst_rosenut
    14 years ago

    serenasyh
    Try a saber saw or Dremel rotary saw for thick pots. Where there's a will there's a way!

  • RG100
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks Karl - had I known this I would have been more careful. I will certainly do it in future.

    On my last check - the Tropicana has dropped all its leaves - some canes have gone black and it does not look good. Peace is still where it was when it was planted - no new growth. Compared to these Lambert Closse that I planted much later has really taken off. I think I will stick to the hardy roses and forget about HTs all together. Just too disheartening....

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    oh, hugs, Ritug! very sorry to hear about the Tropicana... but don't give up on HTs. You just had a bad time but your future ones will do much better... Karl can give you some great tips on how to cut and how to perform perhaps emergency surgery... I have read on this forum some people who have had to cut into the bud union. Once blackness (canker) hits the bud union, that to me is the only definite death sentence... but it seems that some may have been able to heal even that! Since time is the critical essence I would definitely try a super dilute fish emulsion since you don't have the miracle sea tea right on hand... Even severely injured roots like my tree rose had an absolutely fabulous recovery... Just try, it won't hurt and can only help!
    It worked for me....just keep the soil spongy moist with that super dilute fish emulsion, feed every 4 days and wait! At least Peace wil recover, I would bet my tree rose life on it and I still feel you may have a fighting chance with Tropicana...and when you have time, go ahead and order that sea tea... All my roses are doing so fantastic...even that almost dead baby band is making a comeback (like Tropicana, it lost almost all of its leaves (was in horrible shape when I first received it).

    Karl, LOL! I am going to pound on the doors of every one of my neighbors next time when the occasion arises...for super tough 4 gallon pots that my tree rose needed to come out of. I am absolutely shameless about begging for help and will go from door to door...For that poor tree rose, I would have actually needed both a mechanized saw and a work table to raise it up so that I could get to its bottom...

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Ritug? are you there? I'm a bit worried...haven't heard any news, and am sending lots of good wishes for the recovery of your roses...Just hang in there, o.k? I'm not sure if you've had the chance to discuss with Karl yet on any emergency options for the Tropicana... again, am crossing my fingers for you... My baby band that was nearly dead (all original leaves like yours had shriveled away) is now growing so many brand new baby leaves and baby stems now and am hoping!!! that your Tropicana will likewise have this happy ending...let us know how you're doing... Hugs!

  • RG100
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Dear serenasyh

    Thank you so much for the good wishes - I really need them. I so badly want to grow a lovely yellow and orange rose and you know I have tried in that spot for the past 4 years - and no success. I thought that these two roses would do good atleast this season but was so disheartened at the way they are getting started.

    Sorry I could not reply earlier as the whole weekend went in gardening and I was too sore to surf the net ( LOL).

    I will try the fish emulsion remedy - I do have that at home and hopefully that will revive these beauties. I will also try to order the sea tea. But I am thinking really that if this year these two dont grow then I am going to go for the hardy roses - like JP Connell for the yellow and the Morden Fireflow for the orange. What do you think?
    I habe not heard from Karl - if he has any suggestions that would be great.

    Also the update is nothing different - Tropicana has only one green stem left - the other two look black - Peace is still frozen at the same stage at which it was when planted almost 3 weeks ago...Sigh!!!

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Hi, Ritug! am again will keep all fingers crossed for you... I am confident that Peace will recover once it gets its fish emulsion and definitely with the Garden-ville sea tea... I am in love with this product! Karl has amazing expert help and would definitely not mind if you contact him... His email is rosenut@rosenut.com and he also has a website; all it takes is a Google search...

    As for trying to grow hybrid teas in the same spot, that is a real tough thing because one has to dig up all that old, used up soil and have to repair the soil with new fresh good soil... Takes so much work... and you have to keep amending the soil just to be sure it remains fertile and good... Some have debated this issue but I do feel that soil sickness is something to consider...

    I did find JP Connell on Dave's Garden and it's a lovely butter-cream color and I'm particularly crazy about roses that have very strong fragrance... That seems like a dream to me! smiley face... Actually the Morden Fireflow seems more like a deeper scarlet-red as opposed to the Tropicana orange-red... I made the mistake of trying to go by online photos and other people's pics instead of a nursery visit to see the "real thing"...so you must be sure to see a blooming Morden to judge the full color effects... I bet there are plenty here who've grown both and you can start a new post with that in terms of hardiness, disease resistance, etc... but I still am hoping your beauties will make it and will be the miracle survivor that my tree rose is... Keep me updated on how things are going for you...

    But as Karl himself has said before in his quotes, you shouldn't ever! feel ashamed if things don't work out... To me, roses in Canada actually need very strong growth, a very healthy viable plant... If Tropicana doesn't start picking up in 2-1/2 weeks, there is nothing wrong with sp'ing it right away... Your rose needs to establish itself far sooner than the U.S... For Canadian zones, health and viability are very important because you have shorter sun cycles... Peace I think may very well develop into that viable plant once it gets its sea-tea...but Tropicana will have less forgiving of a time frame to re-establish itself...

    Anyway, hugs and am wishing you roses that you can celebrate and take joy in to make those frustrating 4 years completely melt away...

  • kentstar
    14 years ago

    I am having the same problems with my newly planted Ramblin' Red rose. I got it mail order on the 14th of May. It came out of the box looking sulky and limp. It hasn't gotten any better. Keeps wilting and leaves are falling off. I did read these posts and ordered some of that sea tea from Garden Ville! But, I don't have any fish emulsion. Is fish emulsion something you can make at home or is it garden center/store bought? Sorry I know I am a newbie with roses!
    Here's a photo of my problem:
    {{gwi:272977}}
    I've prepared the soil about 4 weeks in advance, kept an eye on how much I'm watering, it's in full sun to mostly sunny location. I thought maybe the soil was a little too prepared! lol. I used my native soil (~50%), composted cow manure (~ 30%), peatmoss (~10 to 20%) a handfull of greensand, and a handful of Bonemeal and FoxFarm organic Rose Fertilizer. The leaves are curling and crisping. I hope it rebounds ok.

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Kentstar, your plant is a very young own root rose from what I can see from your photo. It doesn't have canes like Ritugs so yours and Ritugs are completely different scenarios... Ritugs roses are actually immediately ready for the sea-tea/fish emulsion... Do not!!!! put any more fertilizers into your plant until you receive the Sea Tea and I am hoping!!! that you did not add more fertilizers since your original post...Those few days of Garden-ville mail order wait time should allow your rose a resting period. Young plants need about 5 days' adjustment if their adoptive soil has already come with a huge whollop of preparations in them... My baby bands could immediately tolerate my sea tea (no wait time) because its adoptive soil quality were very close to its original potting soil, moist potting soil with very light RoseTone in it... They didn't have to battle with manure and native soil and lots of fertilizers combined...

    Each rose situation is individual. A mature plant that has canes like Ritug's or my grafted roses have no problems with amended soil because they already come with mature anchor roots.

    For yours, be careful not to get the soil soggy, it looks too wet from your initial pic.... once you receive that sea tea it has to be that absolute super dilute mix and feed any excess to other plants. Again, do not add any other fertilizers besides the Garden-ville, otherwise you will have a mess on your hands from too many fertilizers.

    Garden-ville already comes with fish emulsion...You never want soggy boggy soil...and never feed more than once a week ... If you go at this easy pace, everything should work out terrific...

  • kentstar
    14 years ago

    Thanks for your advice. I am glad you mentioned not to fertilize anymore. I haven't added ANY other fertilizers nor amendments to the bed since planting at all. I guess I'm just freaking out lol. I know that Ritugs situation is very different. But I figured since I read about the sea tea on this post, it was a good place to get some info on it too. The pic looks wet because we haven't had ANY rain for the last couple of weeks at least, and I had just watered that morning. Please forgive an overly anxious newbie! :)

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    then kentstar, you are in great shape! if you haven't added any other amendments or fertilizers, by the time your sea tea arrives you will be ready to start the super dilute tea... And normally it takes as short as one week to two weeks to be able to see some real definite changes or new growth... then you can gradually increase your dose back up to the normal dose that Garden-Ville recommends... Sometimes a rose does so well that I can increase the dose on its second feed. But that's the joy of roses! we start to learn how to observe and "read" our roses; some roses just take off and others start like tortoises but they end up having such great long lives...it's like we become rose Mamas & Papas and understand how they are doing and growing... I hope and hope that just as all my fears were rescued by the Sea Tea that yours and Ritug will have a very happy result soon!

    P.S. when I look at your stems, what I see is that you have a really good rose... My sick baby band's stem was a really awful shade of pale green and like Ritug it had no viable leaves when I received it... Your young rose once it gets through its tea regimen will be a very! viable healthy plant... so cheers, it will work out! it just has to pump more juice into its stem growth, not so much the leaves so you should go ahead and remove any leaves which are completely yellow, blotched...

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    oops, I forgot to mention this...but you can also prop up drooping stems with one of those thin, light vinyl wire supports and secure them with soft velcro ties. Tender plants seem to really like having this extra support...

  • RG100
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Serenash - you seem to be a real expert and I appreciate all your help. You are right - I get a feeling that Peace will survive - but tropicana may have to go. Have you grown any hardy orange roses? I may try a floribunda as they seem to do better than the HTs in this weather.
    I also have Chicago peace which has survived for 3 years. It dies back to the ground but then recovers, but stays small.
    That website you sent will probably not mail the Sea tea to Canada. However I will try at the local nurseries. I did give them the diluted fish emulsion last night. I am hoping that will revive the dead and the lazy!!!

  • john_az
    14 years ago

    Gee Karl,your post on planting a potted rose sounds word for word on a post Iposted about four years ago, john 1 putt

  • Zyperiris
    14 years ago

    I am feeling your pain Rit. I would like to recommend the Living Easy orange rose. I am planting a side garden with oranges and yellows. Keep me posted on how your roses do as summer progresses

  • frank_l
    14 years ago

    Serenasyh, I've been following this thread with great interest as I have a similar problem with some newly planted roses. Got the Sea Tea and made diluted mix - but HOW MUCH FOR EACH PLANT??? Liebeszauber getting some nice new growth after OD on manure (after heavy watering rec. by my nursery, before the Sea Tea), but Pascali and Queen Elizabeth not growing and producing undersized buds and flowers.

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    Hi, Frank...Argh, I am reading thru and am very embarrassed about being called the "expert"... I am a "rose dummy" to the max. Karl is the true expert... but what I do know for sure! is that every single one of my roses except for 3 were planted with a lot! of what others would call either moderately bad transplants or a nightmare transplant... My tree rose actually survived 2 horrid transplants...

    Baby bands... with super dilute only once a week... if in 1 gallon pots about 1-1/2 qts... If planted in a very large pot 15-25 gallons or in the ground you can pour in as much as 3 qts. Note soil has to be loose with some hand-felt dryness, but spongy, NOT PARCHED... when you initially water... Takes about a month at the very least of this super dilute dosage... Once baby bands are about 1' high or! have very large full adult sized leaves, you can start increasing incrementally to a full dosage...

    Young root roses...healthy ones can start with super dilute once every 5 days...but next 5 days can start increasing incrementally. Once you return to full dosage you can feed as much as once a week. Some people only need to feed biweekly because they have super rich soil... I have poor surrounding soil away from the roses, so I feed once a week... I don't pot my young root roses so they receive a gallon of water/sea tea...

    Nursery roses and very green healthy bareroot roses can actually receive up to 1/2 dosage 1 gallon of sea tea/water...if they are healthy on their first 5 days......Since yours is already producing undersized buds I would do the 1/4 mix for a gallon sea/water. For really sick nursery roses/bareroots like ritug's I'd do the baby band mix for the 1st 10 days (feed once every 5 days), and then start the incremental increase (which is adding a tablespoon of sea tea)right away

    The sea tea normal dosage is 1 TBS. per quart so the "math" is thankfully! easy to calculate...

  • serenasyh
    14 years ago

    oops, forgot to say that not only is the sea tea a real miracle for saving very sick, dying or severely traumatized plants but it also does wonders for blooms as well... My tree rose immediately produced 5 tiny buds the morning after a horrific transplant... Another of my brand new tree rose started out with lots of buds but no! stems--- less than 3 weeks after I planted it, it not only grew so many stems and leaves, but now it has 11 brand new blossom buds... My Lincoln, likewise I deadheaded and less than 2 weeks later, 4 fat buds clustered around that deadheaded stem which is crazy! because hybrids usually just have one blossom per one long,tall stem... So I am thinking your QE should start to regain lots of health in its blossoms once the sea tea has the chance to be absorbed...

    Here is a picture of one of my Gemini tree rose buds that appeared the morning after the horrible transplant...It has now blossomed to this: