I also got the email. For the shrub roses I would need 400-600 lbs. and for the climbers minimum 800 lbs. You do the math.

Fortunately my roses are way beyond 'good morning' because they are about finishing or in middle of their first flush.

I didn't check the natural fungicides yet. But I guess that wouldn't be more affordable either.

I appreciate the effort but our income is not comparable to Buckingham Palace.

now if my sister in law were growing roses she would jump on it. Her motto is "Go big or go home". (and she is heavily in credit card debt. Go figure.)

I think most people don't have as many roses as we do... For them it's probably not that much of a stretch..

If I were to buy some, I would only use it on the newest members of the garden... the established roses would get the regular stuff.

Isn't that pretty much the point though Deco? I mean, how many casual growers do you know who would order a special fertilizer from the web? Most would just pick up MG, if they thought of it at all. The people who would be interested in ordering that type of stuff are the obsessed ones like us. And I only have around 130, alot of people here have many many more than that. I do understand WHY it is so expensive, it's a new product that has alot of R&D to pay for, not to mention the ingrediants. It's just frustrating to wait and wait for something that's been so hyped, just to find out that you can't really afford it. Oh well, maybe I won't always be poor.

But you can accomplish much the same thing with alfalfa meal, alfalfa tea, well-rotted manures (avoiding feed-lot steer manure), fish emulsion, and the like.
And it won't break the bank.

Jeri

Now you know how I feel feeding 3500 roses in the ground!!

Kidding aside. Organics are not cheap but I did a little price comparing to some other organics, and the price per rose over a season when fed as per directions is about the same. But it is a sticker shock when you look at over a whole season as opposed to a bag here and there, and there is no doubt that for folks with a lot of roses it adds up.

Interestingly casual rose growers love the program because it is so easy.

If you have a rose or garden society try bulk ordering together. Call the manufacturer for details. And as the product gets out there more shipping costs etc will hopefully get better unless gas hits $8 a gallon!

Alfalfa products, manures etc are good but what is in this product is a whole different thing. But in the end if what works for you works and it fits your budget then go for it!

Jeri:

Can you clarify well-rotted manures (avoiding feed-lot steer manure?

I buy steer manure from HD. Is that what are you referring and what is wrong with "feed-lot steer manure:?

Thank you,
FJ

Steer manure has a high salt content. Not good for roses. Try chicken manure instead, well-rotted or you can buy it in bags at places like Armstrong's.

FJ -- Have you ever seen a feed lot operation?
(If you've got a fairly strong stomach, I urge you to read "The Omnivore's Dilemma:
A Natural History of Four Meals" By Michael Pollan.)

Modern feed lot operations are a pivotal part of the industrialized food chain.
Cattle in feed lots are fed up on a diet heavy in corn and salts, encouraging them to "bulk up."
They are also pumped full of antibiotics.

Commercial steer manure is the by-product of the feed-lot industry.
It carries a lot of what goes INTO the cattle.
Manure (fresh or "well-rotted" -- I love that term!) from stabled horses is terrific for roses --
advice that goes right back to Dean S. Reynolds Hole.

But the things in commercial steer manures aren't what the good Dean was thinking about.
I know someone is going to disagree, but for my own garden, we avoid it.

Does anyone remember that old TV commercial, featuring a skier, sliding down "Bandini Mountain."
There actually WAS such a mountain.
Long ago, I passed it every day on the way to work, and it always made me giggle.

Jeri

I've used Good Morning Roses and I just love it. My roses look better than they have ever, ever looked. It is simple as that. I just came in from a wander thru my yard and cannot believe what I see. Perfect strangers stop and compliment my roses. This has never happened before.

Roses that have been average performers in my yard are spectacular. I never could figure what the fuss was about the Austin rose Molineux. Mine bloomed sparsely with small flowers. Right now it is covered with huge blooms...now I know why people love this rose.

I've also seen a marked increase in bloom size on my plants. I have a Field of the Woods growing on a arbor and the flowers are 5 and 6 inches across. I just measured them. My Pat Austin has blooms that big too. My Crepusule is absolutely covered with flowers. I could go on and on.

I don't know how many roses I have. I try not to count as that would be admitting my addiction. The number has to be somewhere between 80 and 100. I bought 100 lbs of Good Morning Roses that I picked up at Ashdown (no shipping cost). I also used a bit of the stuff on a hydrangea (Lady in Red) that I have....what the heck, right? It is covered with buds. IMHO this stuff is gold.

The past few years I've used a combo of Rose Tone and alfalfa occasionally boosted with Miracle Grow when I had a chance. I've used Osmocote...and several other slow release formulas. And I have never seen a spring flush like the one I'm seeing now.

Carole

Carole, thanks for the encouragement! I hoped they have shipped my first order of GMR. Fortunately I have not had time to progress in my addiction to the point where I cannot afford it any longer! ;o)

I also used Good Morning Roses this year and like Carole are seening the best blooms on my roses EVER! In fact, my husband who couldn't care less about my roses even came out side this afternoon and could not believe not only how big the blooms are but how many there are and the large amount of buds are still waiting to open. Even the roses I bought last year are growing like crazy and have started to or getting ready to bust out in bloom.
Granted, I do not have alot of roses but I am a true believer in this product and will never switch to anything else.

I know if I had a lot of roses (and I would if I had more land), I would get together with other people in the area and try to get a big enough order so we could order in bulk.

I used GMR as well. I didn't use quite the recommended dose, instead putting a 9oz cup full under each rose and 3 of those cups under climbing Pinkie. I didnt make the connection until I read this post but Tommy and I were talking today about the SIZE of the blooms in my yard. I have had some of these roses for years and never have the blooms been as large.

Maybe this stuff is magic!

Ronda

Ceterum, I did the math. OMG!!! You could buy a house for what it would cost you. Probably in California!

Ceterum,
Please do not take this the wrong way, but may I suggest you try the Peter Beales Natural Rose Care Program on just a few roses that for some reason just have a harder time "getting it together" so to speak or to some of your younger roses that just need that extra boost to get going. As I stated before, the roses I purchsed even late last season are growing and starting to bloom like I have never seen before.

How interesting - I just started a thread this morning in the Perennials Forum on the rising cost of gardening. ("How much is too much?").

I think I will go for the casual "what-ever-nature-care-to-throw-at-me" look.

I think I will go for the casual "what-ever-nature-care-to-throw-at-me" look.
* * *
Haha the story of my life!
I am nothing if not resourceful.

And somebody with a horticulture or agriculture degree is going to buy some, take it to university and figure out what is in it, and .... what then, will someone be bootlegging a similar product? :)

I'm glad to see that others are seeing results like I have. At least now I feel like I haven't drank too much of the kool aid. ;-)

Later on as I thought about what I wrote I realized that there were two more advantages to this stuff that I wanted to point out. First of it is easy to use. I spent one afternoon early this spring feeding my roses and now it's done for a while. When I was using Rose Tone I bought the stuff and spread it out about once a month. I work full time and am away from the house often 10 hours each day so by using Good Morning Roses I have one less garden chore each month. My weekend time is limited.

This product also contains mycorrhizal fungi and leonardite. We've all discussed the advantages of mycorrhizal fungi and its ability to aid plants in their uptake of water and nutrition. Leonardite, from the limited reading I've done on it, helps aerate the soil and increase the soils water holding ability. I haven't forgotten that horrid drought we had last summer and even if we get normal rain fall this summer things get pretty dry here in South Carolina during July and August. Both these substances help plants resist droughts and I am looking forward to seeing if things are better this year.

Billy Styles from OPHC has said over and over that no one waters the forest. This past Spring I understood exactly what he was saying when I looked at the woods and saw the dogwoods and red bud blooming prettily. They got no supplamental water last summer and were fine.

Carole

Doing simple math, I would have to spend $1800 for the year. Ain't no way.

Well it might be interesting to try it on a few--on the non-performers like 'Old Port' which is a whopping 2' tall after nearly 2 years, and 'Royal Highness', which has never been a strong grower. See if I can finally get them going.

Steer manure (unless you have access to a natural-raised supply) is not only loaded with salt but also with antibiotics and now bovine growth hormones--what is that stuff going to do to soil and water supplies? We know the water supply is already contaminated with stuff like tylenol and other human drugs. Yikes. A lot of chickens are loaded up with antibiotics as well.

Not to change the subject but where is an economical place to purchase Good Morning Roses? I will have to buy it online. We live in a small community without box stores.

Also is it too late now for Good Morning Roses Early Season Formula? Not sure on the timing.

Thank you.

Kate

As I said I didn't use the GMR product, and my roses - despite 90%+ having awful powdery mildew that they never had in this climate before - look also spectacular and have much bigger blooms.

I think the reason for this phenomenon is the weather. Since I have been gardening here I have never seen such a steady winter, meaning no very high temperatures in January and no 'extreme' lows in February. Meanwhile, the spring is exceptionally cool, wonderfully sunny and breezy, - for me: California-like - and IMHO that's why my roses produced extra large blooms including Mme. J. Schwartz and Jaune Desprez to my total astonishment.

This is Colette blooming for a months and has lots of buds forming

It is also true that the price of every fertilizer went up. 50 Lbs alfalfa was around $12 two years ago, I Paid $17 for it this year. Regular 16-4-8 "lawn and garden' fertilizer was around $6 now it is $10 at Lowe's, etc. etc.

I am happy for everyone who can use this product but to know real results one should do a control, meaning if you have 2 of the same rose one should get GMR and the other your before GMR routine to know what is the real difference Otherwise I am inclined to believe that our unusual spring in the southeast is responsible for the spectacular results.

Here is Colette, has bee blooming for 4 weeks and has lots of buds forming

{{gwi:263142}}

I use it and it has done well for me but I expect it will take longer than the 2 months that it has been down to see the true benefits long term. I also agree with the fact it saves me a lot of time trying to mix together all those good ingredients. I have not gone organic all the way though, I still spray.

I only have 60 roses so one 50 pound bag takes care of me. If I had as many as some of you do I definitely would not pay for it.

I suppose it also depends on what one expects of one's roses. I don't know that I'd enjoy seeing giant blooms on all my roses. I'm already seeing good results on the roses that I've used alfalfa meal on versus the ones I haven't and I'm content with that. Coffee grounds and banana peels are free and there's a certain amount of satisfaction in making do with what you have or can obtain very cheaply versus going the first class route. With the rising cost of living this may have to become a way of life for many of us anyway.

Ingrid

:::Not to change the subject but where is an economical place to purchase Good Morning Roses? I will have to buy it online. We live in a small community without box stores.
Also is it too late now for Good Morning Roses Early Season Formula? Not sure on the timing. :::

As far as I know there are only two places that you can buy this stuff. They are Ashdown Roses and Organic Plant Healthcare. Ashdown has it for purchase on their site and I'm sure if you contacted Organic Plant Healtcare wither by phone or email they'd get it to you.

I just got back from OPHC where I finally got my bottle of Good Health Roses. I'm lucky...their store is about 30 minute from here. I talked to Billy Styles while I was there and he's going to come by my house one day next week and take pictures of my roses.

I'm not sure if it is too late to use in your area...maybe Paul will answer that one for you.

Carole

Rosenpots, I don't take it the wrong way, and I wasn't insulted. I am happy for you if you can afford this product along with the shipping cost. I do not. I use Response as a liquid fertilizer sprayed on roses that also Paul suggested a few years ago. Response I can afford. What's even better I don't have to pay shipping for it because I talked an organic storeowner into carrying it. I also asked this guy to check on the Beales product but when I saw the price I told him to forget about it. If he decided to carry it, he also must make profit on it, so the price would be even more forbidding.

However, that does not mean, that if an organic rose gardener in town asks me for recommendation and I know that s/he has less than 100 roses and she is also well to do, I would fail to recommend him/her this product. I just have to admit that this is not something that is feasible for me.

I am a bit afraid that the price of the roses from nurseries that switch to this product will be very high in the future; furthermore roses in those nurseries will grow at a slower rate and this fact will also add to the price of the rose.

Ceterum

Only time will tell is nurseries that may start to use the product will have to go up in their rose prices, but I really do not think so. I think shipping will go up because of the high gas prices. In fact just as Carole stated you only need to feed 3x a year vice every 2 or 3 months. So for me it is a labor savings and because the majourity of my roses are in pots, I am hoping that over a year or two of using the entire Peter Beales Natural Rose Care line I may not have the added expense and problems have to change out the potting soil in my pots.

As far as roses growing at a slower rate, I do not see this, in fact my are growing better this year than any other year. I just recieved my shipment of roses from Ashdown yesterday, shipped potless and as with all Ashdown roses, own-root. I do not know if these have ever been feed any of the Peter Beales Rose Care, but now they will so it will be intresting to see how they grow for me.

But we all know what will work for one may not for another, no matter what the reason. That is why when we go shopping for "whatever" there are so many things to choose from. And from what your picture of Colette shows, what ever you are using and doing, really works for you. And isn't that what really counts?

I wonder what's in this product to make it so pricey? We make our own mix using Alfalfa, blood meal, kelp meal etc. Does Peter Beale's mix have other magical properties?
I think that many senior folks who live on a limited income and have no way of supplementing it won't be using such an expensive product, and me thinks these are the folks who instead of driving everywhere choose to stay home and enjoy their little surroundings including their garden. But, in the end, I believe it's a matter of priorities. I love my garden and will probably pay the extra costs as long as I can afford it. However, this will not include PB magical fertilizer!

I have been under the impression that these products (or some variation of) haved been used and tested at Ashdown Roses for the last year. I don't think their prices are outrageous or that their plants are slow growing.

I picked up six a few weeks ago and they were gorgeous plants. And I saw their workers spraying stuff on the plants without wearing full chemical protection suits. Keep in mind they must provide plants of high quality because no rose business can survive if the send out fungus covered or bug ridden plants.

Earlier today I was talking to Billy Styles, the owner of Organic Plant Healthcare, and he was talking about how he was the one that mixed the fertilizer himself from products that he has at his store. He was hoping to end up with a nutritional analysis of 6-4-2 but ended up at 6-4-1.

Billy is a bit of a character. He's claims to be a farmer from North Carolina and he's on his way to the Chelsea Flower Show. He's also got a radio show that is on here in Charlotte where he pushes a "sustainable landscape" that survives without supplemental water. Now if this stuff works longterm to decrease the water needs of my landscape it is definitely worth every penny I've spent on it. The direct benefit to me will be lowered water bills in the summer. But the greater benefit to the Catawba River Basin where I live is also just as important. The Catawba River supplies the water to Charlotte, NC and surrounding areas and due to massive development is becoming strained. If my little bit helps....then wonderful!

I guess I'm lucky. I work very hard for the money I make and I'm thankful to have it to spend on what I want. The other evening I was pretty tapped after work and almost dreaded the few chores I had in the yard that evening. But once I got out there and was surrounded by all the blooms and fragrance I had a whole new attitude.

The way I look at it if I buy this stuff as needed and spread the expense over the long growing season I'll never really realize how much it is. Its not like I have to fork over the cash in a lump sum. Kinda like if I thought of the amount of money I've spent on roses altogether I'd probably faint. Just doing my bit to keep American businesses going. ;-)

As far as ingredients they are listed on package label. I'll include a link at the end of the post.

Carole

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:270648}}

I sure appreciate your spirit Carole!

And isn't it heartening (and instructive) that one of America's premier specialty rose nurseries is embracing organic rose growing, and making products available to those for whom it makes sense?

Roses CAN be grown beautifully without toxic chemicals.

I'm hopeful this project will help open the eyes of those who "know" the kind of synthetic and pesticide based practices that have been "pushed" on us for years is bad for our health, the health of our families, pets, wild-life and our soil.

I'm very appreciate that Paul Zimmerman and Ashdown Roses have made this commitment to sustainable rose culture. Bravo!

Bill

If ashdown has been using it for a year,
I'd like to see some comments about how large and healthy they are this year .pictures anyone? That would sure take away the guesswork. As they say the proof is in the pudding'.

Len511, I cannot post pictures of my new Ashdown roses because they haven't arrived yet - due to cold spring weather they aren't ready yet.

Bill, how many roses do you grow? And did you order the new product already?

Carole in SC, maybe if I lived that close to the supply source and had just a few roses, I would try it. But for 300+ roses that is way beyond my means.

I think I check out from this thread since I am afraid I could be misunderstood.

Len..

I didn't say that the roses I picked up at Ashdown were large, just healthy and happy. They've all grown since I've gotten them. I'm sure as the season progresses they will get bigger. They were much bigger though than the Wedding Cake band I got from Sequoia. Although Ashdown is under two hours from here it is closer to the mountains and a zone colder. We have had a very cool spring here where I live so I'm sure they have similar conditions but more so.

Ceterum...I don't think you are misunderstood. If I had 300+ roses I'd have to think twice. I am lucky to live close to the supply source I won't deny that. I am actually surprised...I never figured Charlotte, NC to be on the cutting edge for anything.

I just couldn't figure out why you thought the use of these products would raise the price of roses or slow their growth.

Carole

Ceterum, I don't think you are being misunderstood. It too expensive for you, and I think I'm in the same boat.

To answer your questions directly. An informal count of my roses (at this point) puts me a slightly over 100 roses. My garden is in an active expansion phase. But I'm hoping (for my sake) I don't hit 300. But I know how that goes.

And no, I have not ordered the GMR product, and there is a good possibility I never will. As it happens we (in our suburban back-yard) keep a small flock of bantam chicken. So I compost their manure. And I get horse-manure from a local horse owner. And lately I've been gathering used coffee-grounds from Starbucks. And I have Oak trees and know how good rotted Oak leaf litter is, so I compost. And I use soybean meal and alfalfa...etc...etc.

I LIKE utilizing "products" that are local (especially when they are "local" to my yard) and ones that might otherwise be considered "waste", especially when they are "free".

So having organics shipped across the country may not make fiscal or resource management sense for me. But what I said was, I'm glad Ashdown is making their product available to those for whom it does make sense.

And beyond that, I'm hopeful that the "demonstration" effect of an elite nursery growing roses organically will "inspire" others to do like-wise. Regardless of whether they happen to use the Peter Beales/Ashdown products, or if they use alternative locally available "soil foods".

I happen to believe the pesticide based "rose-culture" that held sway for so long in this county must be replaced with more intelligent and earth-friendly ways. And I'm glad to see Ashdown promoting this change. I think it will have a positive effect, and will get people thinking.

And I couldn't be happier with this development.

Bill (who knows ceterum means "furthermore/more-over/additionally")

Hi All,

Just a few notes to toss into the mix.

First, personally I take no offense at the "gulps" over price for folks with hundreds of roses (Hi Cetrum, stay on the thread IÂm enjoying and learning from your perspective). Most people when they get into those numbers end up putting together their own programs because most retail rose care programs do add up into bucks when you have that many plants

To let you in on my thinking when I got the ball rolling on this program. My idea all along has been to put together a complete and natural program for the person with a few roses (general gardener) who is totally overwhelmed by the gobs of products and mis-information out there that roses are a) laborious to grow and b) chemical dependant. We sometimes forget (me included) that the average rose grower probably has 10-30 in their garden and hopefully mixed in with their other planting. Maybe they stretch to 50-60 but not more than that. Those of us (me again) who are nuts about roses are by far in the minority in the great wide world of gardening. To this end IÂm pleased as punch about what weÂve put out. A great product, easy to use, all natural, and it takes the "myth" out of casually growing roses in a garden setting. So sorry to break the news but I never "intended" the program for us rose nuts!

Regarding my nursery and the products. I used my LAST chemical on my 20 acre nursery property April of 2007. Our current crop of roses is 100% green. Did they develop slower, to some degree yes. Are they better plants? I think so. To me (and this is a personal thing) chemicals are like Jolt Cola. Quick hit and wears off quick. Organics are like a healthy diet  in the long run better for you. Trust me, I have access to all kinds of miracle chemicals to produce lovely canes, leaves and blooms that would make Wal-Mart blush  but usually at the expense of the root system and I ainÂt going there. (sigh, there goes the Ashdown private jet)

Regarding organics being more expensive and our prices going up. Actually in the nursery business what drives prices are two things. Labor and shipping costs. Fertilizer costs are a very minor factor and only come into play in terms of frequency of application. So something I have to apply only three times a year is far cheaper labor wise than something every 2-4 weeks because of the labor involved. So "higher priced" organics will not raise our prices but I can understand and respect the thought behind raising the point.

So, letÂs just all agree to spread the world that roses are easy to grow and donÂt need hits of chemicals like some sort of floral junkie. Use your own, use what weÂve put out, use something else it doesnÂt matter  the message is the most important thing.