I'd guess the tractor is 6-7 years old with the 16hp Vanguard. I bought my Conquest with a 20hp in 2005. I beleive they had the 18h in them for a few years prior to the 20. I paid $4400 for my Conquest in 2005 with the same options as the one you are referencing (except for the 20hp engine in place of the 16hp --which is probabaly the same engine anyway). I'd say if they paid more $4400 for that in 2002 they didn't get that good a deal on it. So at tops they should have spent no more than what I paid. I seriosly doubt they could get half of that for their 5-7 year old Conquest on the open market. I've seen some Conquest's and Prestige models sell on ebay for not much more than that and they were 2-3 years old. Machines like these just don't hold their value. John Deere's hold their value as well as any and even they drop quickly. Given that, it's your parents, so I'd let them set the price. You may over pay for what you can buy a comparable machine, but you know you bought it from a good source. Don't want to deal to hard with the folks.

I thank all of you, lawnmowerman07, tekumcman, altbob and ac.d17iv for your quick responses. They are a great help to me. I'm psyched to check out the Simplicity further. I looked at the Snapper LT200 yesterday, but my local dealer wanted to push me to the LT300 by saying the 200 wouldn't strong enough for what I want to do. Funny thing is, the LT300 doesn't come with a 50" cut like the LT200 and the engine isn't any bigger, you have to go to the LT400 for a bigger cut equivalent to the LT200, which is way beyond my price range. I'm not sure what you get for an extra $1K or so other than auto traction control. I'm not convinced he knew what he was talking about. Tekcumcman, fortunately for my neighbor, his Toro is about 6 years old that he bought the same local dealer who sells Simplicity, so I'm pretty sure it's a Wheel Horse not an MTD "special". Not sure which model, though. Your estimate for my Murray is right on, too.

Ferris builds the commercial. Simplicity doesn't make any comercial. They are already made at Ferris. Nothing will most likely not get moved there. The snow blowers are going to Tennessee to a new plant they are opening and the tractors are going to Snapper. We currently make the larger Snapper tractors at Simplicity. Like the one Brett Farve was advertising. Currently Briggs is already using thinner gageing on the hoods, side panels etc. The average worker at Simplicity has 20 years of exp. My father retired with 37. So they have a lot of ground to make up for our exp. years they will be losing. I have so much more in my head but it realy doesn't matter anymore. What is is is. Nothing I can do to change that. Just saying I wouldn't plan on Simplicity tractors to get any better. Maybe cheaper in price and therefore quality as in durablility will have to suffer.

Thanks for all the follow up guys. I read all your comments, 3 & 4 times, and then went ahead and ordered the Craftsman anyway. I couldn't overlook the 9 good years I remembered with it and couldn't get past the $2K extra for the Simplicity. Well I ordered the tractor on a Thursday and it couldn't be delivered until the following Monday as Sears was out of stock, On Monday I got a call from them that there was a delay and I couldn't get it until Wednesday. On Wednesday I got a call that it wouldn't be delivered until Friday. As I had taken the afternoon off from work that day to accept the delivery, I had some time to reflect on some of the tractor's past issues like its problem with leaves in the fall. Every year, because of its design, leaves would get caught in the frame and would come into contact with the muffler and catch fire. I started blowing the leaves separately each year to avoid that, but eventually the tractor caught fire at some point anyway. Usually I could just clear it out with a stick, but last year, the fire was so big, I had to run to the house to get a fire extinguisher before the fuel lines ruptured. Strangely enough, although scarred, the damn thing kept running. Then there was the time that a delivery truck pulled into the driveway while I was mowing and surprised me. I shut the engine off too quickly and was rewarded with the loudest backfire I'd ever heard. About 20 minutes later I tried to restart it, but it just turned over without catching. After a couple of hours I tried again and it fired up. From that point on, it would start only when cool, but as soon as it heated up, the engine would die and not restart until it cooled off sufficiently. So I called out the trusty Sears repairman who, after much headscratching, told me I needed a new carburator for only $350. I'm fairly handy and the facts and diagnosis just didn't match up, so I put him off while I thought about it. After much research and a talk with a great guy from a Massachusetts Koehler distributor, I finally determined that it was the ignition module that had gone bad and the backfire was probably unrelated and coincidental. I changed out the module and the tractor was back to normal. Had I allowed the Sears service guy to replace the carburator, I would have been out $350 and still scratching my head along with him. There are other stories, but life is short. By the time Sears called me the next day and rescheduled again for the following Monday, despite not being able to understand a single word the woman on the other end of the phone was saying, I had utterly changed my mind and cancelled the Craftsman. I called up a Simplicity dealer I had spoken to earlier and made a good deal with him and the Conquest 23/50 was delivered two days later, fresh out of the crate, prepped, primed, and ready to go. The delivery guy was also a repairmen and went through the whole tractor with me and even gave me some advise on the leaf blower I was having trouble with, which proved to correct the problem. I mowed the lawn that day with the new Conquest and it sliced through the 5 weeks of growth like a hot knife through butter. It didn't even hesitate and didn't leave one ragged spot on the lawn. It was great. I still don't know if it's worth an additional $2K. I guess only time will tell. But it's shiny and new and works like a charm. I have a great dealer to help me when I need it and I'm a very happy guy. As for the Craftsman, I'm not putting any money into it except to buy a used snow/dozer blade if I can find a cheap one. And since it won't seem to die, I'll plow snow with it until it does. Thanks for all your help. It's been an experience.