Yes, I get some re rooting of grass with the burn method, but not that much. I also get some re rooting with my old method of removing sod and multiple cart trips over the hill to dump it. Burning also leaves you with the less soil loss than removing sod. Although I read about a guy that ground his sod and soil up in a chipper and reused it. One negative to the burning is this. You stink of smoke and your clothes may need a couple of washes to get it out. You also may get some eye irritation from the smoke. I've put in 5 beds this way so far. I put in about 18 beds the traditional way of digging out the sod. I came up with this burn method when the summer was half gone and I wanted to plant some corn for the first time. I had to get it planted within a day or so if I wanted some corn, so I burnt out a bed and tilled it and planted next day. Now no doubt digging sod can be done as quick, if you got the energy and back fortitude. But I'm older and take some time to dig, so I now rather burn and till now. My first beds were done with black plastic solarizing the grass. And it worked OK, but we did not get lots of heat in the spring, so the grass was only so-so dead to the roots and lots came back. But if you get lots of sun heat and have 6 to 8 weeks, the plastic method is OK to use. Here is my brunt bed I'm working on now. This was after one burn. I'm letting it rest some and will till it up and burn it some more in a few days. No big rush. I got all winter. Maybe will plant red potatoes and onions in it. Something the deer wont eat. Although they do nibble on the potatoes even though the tops are poisonous. But if I spray them with garlic and pepper they seem to be left alone. BTW, if you got baby trees and the raccoons get your fruit you can armor plate them like this late harvest Asian pear. (See top of fence for 2 way spikes and bottom of tree for enclosure) Here are some more beds put in with the burn method in mid summer. Good Luck!

I know what you mean! It seems like the soil gets used up. I just dig up the plants and replant them after refilling the box to the new level. Obviously, you can't do that if the plants are too fragile to take that kind of treatment as in a nursery bed. I have one bed that I use just for nursery purposes and the level keeps going down and I will have to wait until most of the plants are moved to more permanent quarters to refill that box. My beds are 4 feet across and 6,8 or 12 feet long and filled with compost from my livestock. I don't till or agitate the soil in them but add layers to them sort of like lasagna beds. spiderwoman

You're right, Nan, surfactants are found in lots of products. Soap and detergents are all surfactants - it's actually the surfactant molecules that surround and float dirt/grease molecules away. Guess it also floats the frog's protective slime coat away. Not surprising really. One way the issue around amphibians surfaced was when commercial herbicide was used to kill invasive exotic plants in ponds. The amphibians died - but not because of the active herbicide ingredient, but from the 1ppm surfactant in the herbicide formulation. For this reason, many people would like to see unadulterated herbicides (without other ingredients like surfactants) available to regular folks like us. At this time, for big bucks, professionals can buy the active ingredient in bulk, but smaller, affordable quantities are not marketed. No worry that toothpaste, shampoo, or any surfactants will be banned or limited - we don't ban the fossil fuels that are destroying the ozone layer, so what's a few frogs? In general, we ban things long, long after catastrophic results are obvious, and then we ban specific chemicals only when we have a method to detect that chemical - which is not trivial. Drinking water can legally contain like 2mg/L Total Organic Carbon, but virtually all the EPA monitors is volatile contaminants, which are testable in a GC (found in most labs), and make up typically around 0.2mg/L. So what are we drinking in the other 0.8mg/L? Mmmmmmm. And this attitude, my friends, is born not of a nuts-and-fruits birkinstok-wearing flower-child. It was born of too many years in a chem lab plus working with chemists at EPA labs 20 years ago, and finally standing in my own garden today, looking around and wondering what in the world we have done. I know there's harmful bacteria and fungi in the soil I play in, I eat fast food on occasion, and I know that loving strawberries means I injest a lot of pesticide, so i don't get carried away with all the dangers - if one thing doesn't kill us, another will, that's for sure. i just wish I weren't leaving such a mess for the kids to clean up. Want to get scared of your shampoo, look at the ingredients and then read http://www.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/depts/env_saf/msdspdf/sodium_dodecyl_sulfate_BP166100_Fisher.pdf#search='sodium%20lauryl%20sulfate%20msds' Here is a link that might be useful: one article from many

"It is often asked what is the best or simplest way to create a new garden bed. These are some suggestions that have been brought up on forum discussions on ways to do this effectively." You could get a hold of a tiller and tear into things that way. If you have very hardpacked, neglected soil that may be a necessary first step. The drawbacks are that this method is very disruptive to the soils microbes and fungal life and may also bring up many dormant weed seeds. In many cases there are other less disruptive methods that are considerably easier on your soil and your back. One that is gaining popularity is smothering the area under a layer of newspaper or plain cardboard and covering it over with a thick mulch. The mulch is made up of the same type of materials you would use in a traditional compost pile but is allowed to decompose in place directly on the new bed. The materials you use smother the unwanted grass and weeds and over time will enrich and improve the soil in the bed. The soil will gradually become looser from the activity of the earthworms and other soil creatures without the need for double digging or power equipment. This method is very low impact both to the soil and the gardener. You can often plant things immediately after prepping the bed. Define The Area Draw out the your yard area on graph paper to visualize where you want to create beds if you are working on an overall design. For a single bed you can just outline where it is going to be directly in the garden. There are marking paints that are used upside down that make this very easy to do or you can fill an old baby powder container with flour and use this to layout the perimeter of the area. If this area is going to be created from an existing lawn you can just let the grass grow a bit long, then make a single pass with the mower along the border of where you want the new bed to be. This will give a strong visual for where the edges are and ensures that the radius of the curves are not too tight or difficult to mow along. If you are going to be planting immediately and have the plants on hand you can place them out in their pots to get an idea of where you wish them to be placed. It is much easier to rearrange things on paper or move pots around than to dig up and reposition plants later. Creating The Edges Once you have the beds laid out you can cut in and define the edges. A shallow trench is an easy to maintain border for beds that costs nothing (other than some time). It is easily maintained by pulling back the mulch material to clean up and redefine it periodically. Once a year should be sufficient in most areas. You can also easily expand a bed if it has no permanent edging to remove. With a very sharp straight edged spade cut in a line about 4" deep along the edge you have laid out. Cut in another parallel line about 6" (or the width of your shovel) from the first. You should then be able to easily strip off this ribbon of sod by slipping the spade under it. A garden fork also works well for this. Lay the sod strips, face down, along the inner edge of the trench. If you have a scuffle or action hoe run it along the bottom of the trench to give it a nice flat well defined shape. At his point you can plant or move on to the next step to let the bed develop for a time. If you wish to plant just place your plants in their desired positions. Remove an area of sod twice the size of your pot and dig your planting hole. Amend this hole with some good compost and plant. Mulching Over The Bed Once you have a well defined trench edge you can layer newspaper or brown cardboard over the inside of the bed area. This will smother 99% of whatever is growing there. Any survivors will be weak and easily pulled out or cut down and smothered with additional material. Over this barrier you can build up layers of organic materials lasagna fashion or all mixed together if that is your preference. Compost, chipped leaves, grass clippings, chipped prunings, produce trimmings, coffee grounds, aged manure, whatever you can gather that will rot. Regular reading of the posts on the Forum and you will find that there are a number of materials that folks have come up with or scrounged that are suitable. Pile it on as thick as you can and be sure it is well moistened. If you have set out plants keep the mulch well away from the bases of the new plantings. You can now cover this material with whatever suits you as a top layer. Chipped leaves, or grass clippings are free and will work well. Wood chips can often be found from tree trimmers and they will also serve as a good "top dressing" to retain moisture and protect your soon to be developing microherd. In a short time the material will break down and become a rich, loose loam. Keep is covered with regular additions of compost and some fresh mulch and you will have a very healthy, weed free bed. If you have aditional questions about this topic you can post on the Soil Forum and you will find many folks who will be eager to help you along.