Break up clay with Paver's sand versus Peat Moss
strawchicago z5
11 years ago
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strawchicago z5
11 years agomackel_in_dfw
11 years agoRelated Discussions
Is peat moss necessary 2nd time around?
Comments (26)I use sand. Been using it for over 40 years. East coast, west coast. Coarse sand, river sand. For heavy clay loam, add about 1.5 inches of sand on top and till it in as deep as possible. Remember, all loam soils already have some sand in them. So you might not need to add as much as you think. Once you've amended your soil with sand, it's permanent. You can add some humus by top-dressing or mulching every year, but you will need a lot less compost for that than if you were amending the top 8 inches of soil every year. So the sand is a lot of work at the front end, but it saves you a lot of work every year thereafter. Then I rake the soil up into raised beds. I don't use any retaining structure. By the time I'm done, I've got at least 10-12 inches of well-aerated loam soil. Everything grows like mad in this stuff. Once the winter rains hit the soil, and then it dries the next summer, you might decide that it's still a little too stiff. Add some more sand. Or mulch with sand; that works really well. On heavily leached acidic soils, it's also a good idea to add lime. I prefer dolomite lime, because it has Magnesium as well as Calcium. If you have pure, impenetrable clay (which I call subsoil clay) , you're done for. Often this stuff will smell like methane when you disturb it. I recommend that you replace it with good topsoil, or pile good topsoil on top of it. If your native soil will grow healthy weeds and grass, you should be able to amend it with sand. If not, you need to truck in some soil. All of my experience is in areas with high rainfall and heavily leached acid soils on the east and west coasts of the US. So I don't know if sand will work in other situations. I do know that rock gardeners and rare bulb growers use sand extensively for growing beds in the entire northern tier of the USA. My experience is with very rare, difficult plants. They will thrive in prepared soil with added sand; most will do very poorly in heavy clay loam. Believe me, if this didn't work, I would have given it up a long time ago. If you have a big area, you will probably need to buy a dumptruck load of sand, and rent a little tractor with a bucket and tiller. Otherwise you are going to get the workout of your life. For the science behind this, google "soil triangle". It's pretty simple, really. Add some sand, get loam. Add more sand, get sandy loam. In my opinion, sandy loam is garden heaven for a wide range of plants. A few plants prefer a heavier soil, but most gardeners grow a lot of different things. Sandy loam warms up earlier, is easier to weed (they pull right out), doesn't stick to your shoes, doesn't compact, is well aerated, and gives amazing seed germination. My rare plants reseed themselves all over the place. I never saw that with clay loam. I like a humusy organic soil as much as anybody. But I don't have time to amend my soil with humus every year for the rest of my life. What are you going to do when you get old (like me)? Just add the sand now and enjoy. Skeptical? Worried? Buy a bag or two of sand at Home Depot. Dig it into a small area and see if it works for you. But make sure that your clay loam is in a tillable condition, or you are going to end up with an awful mess. It can't be too wet or too dry. I've never used peat moss to improve garden soil. Too expensive, too temporary, no nutrients. I use it in potting mixes. This post was edited by lilydude on Tue, Apr 22, 14 at 21:55...See MoreWould a mixture of vermiculite, perlite, and peat moss work??
Comments (26)I know I'll probably take a hit for this, but I'll stand firm on my assertion that the mix of equal parts of peat, black soil, sand, and perlite is a poor choice for houseplants - especially for inexperienced waterers. We can actually quantify what makes a good container soil, as noted above. Aeration is KEY in container soils and this mix WILL compact and WILL NOT hold enough air for an extremely high % of plants to ever grow at or even near their potential genetic vigor. I'm the first to say that it doesn't matter what soils are actually made of, as long as they provide anchoring, nutrient and water-holding ability, and most importantly - they must hold an ample volume of air and allow gas exchange at the rootzone. The soil described above will lack aeration and adequate gas exchange. That a particular person does something for a number of years with results that are acceptable, doesn't mean it should be adopted by others. Saying, "It works for me" is simply a statement and should not be regarded as a clarion call that others should follow blindly. That's all I have to say, and it's just an opinion, but it's easily supported by science and practical experience, and can be corroborated by dozens, if not hundreds of folks I've helped with soil problems over the years. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to help folks see that there are better choices than the mix we're discussing. Use science, don't fight against it. (I wish someone famous would have said that so I could offer it as a quote & it would carry more weight) ;o) A friend of mine, Joe Pye, comes to mind as I consider the reasoning of some. Joe Pye would get up every morning before work and bang his head against the wall. He always said it worked for him. One day he got tired of banging his head and decided to change, so he kissed his wife goodbye instead. Joe never did go back to banging his head. Moral: If your happy with how things are growing, please maintain the status quo, but at least allow there just might be a better way. Al...See MoreQuickest way of breaking up clay soil
Comments (23)No offense to hoovb, but yeah, Jean, I was waiting for someone to say something. It's a lot of work, trying to clean up all the "dirt" around here. It's an overwhelming task. It's like steppin' into "uncomposted manure", at times... Speaking of, Grandma, who would be 102 today, said that when she was a young girl, she'd go out and squish her bare toes on a cold morning in warm cow paddies. She also told me that when she was a child, her grandma told her that the Devil had laid her out on a stump, and the sun had hatched her. I used to think she was for real. Turns out, I started learning about biology, and that it was impossible for a mammal, like we are, to be hatched from an egg. And then I learned about the platypus. M...See MoreUsing Sand to Fix Clay Soil
Comments (8)Ella: Yes, same as "sharp sand" or "builder's sand" or "leveling sand" sold at Menards for $2 per bag, and at HomeDepot for $3.49 per bag. It's yellowish, very coarse. Play-sand is sold at Walmart, very fine, thus glue-up with clay. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-sharp-sand.htm "Sharp sand, also known as builders' sand, refers to sand that has a gritty texture. This type of sand is often mixed with concrete for a number of different construction applications. Sharp sand can also be added to soil in order to create potting soil or to loosen clay soil. In most instances, this type of sand is made from ground quartz rocks. " Prairie: Thanks for the info., really appreciate the time you e-mailed me the document on rose-breeding and blackspot strains .. that's to de-bunk the myth of Knock-outs with BS resistant-strains just to promote Knock-outs as the ONLY resistant roses. My experience: any vigorous roots would be disease-resistant, it doesn't have to be Knock-outs. I dislike false advertisement like that just to promote knock-outs, selling for $18 per pot, while other just as healthy roses being sold for $8 per pot. Val: I already answered those questions when you jumped into my thread while Kelly asked about her heavy clay. I shared in detail on how I used 12 bags sand for 24 tomatoes, with 1/2 bag of sand per planting hole, worked to depth of 12 inch, along with gypsum. I posted extensively about using coarse sand to break up heavy clay, starting in 2012. People falsely accuse SAND making concrete with clay, but people don't realize that THE TAP WATER THEY ARE USING is causing the glue-up. To treat tap-water and to deodorize, municipals use hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide), which is made from quick-lime, both compounds are used in making concrete. I notice that my Austin roses planted in partial shade, which I never bother to water, are 100% healthy .. versus those planted in full-sun with frequent tap-watering .. came down with blackspots. I dig up roses often in my garden, either moving them around, or they die after a harsh winter. The holes with frequent tap-water: soil became rock-hard, despite my previous breaking them up with organics like alfalfa hay. pine-bark, or coarse sand. Alkaline tap water at pH near 9 makes concrete out of clay. Hydrated lime is DIFFERENT from natural dolomitic lime. Hydrated lime is UNSTABLE, and it binds with potassium, phosphorus, and trace-elements, thus roses become pale, less blooms, and break out in diseases due to less potassium. and anti-fungal trace elements. That's why use sulfate of potash plus gypsum to de-activate the gluing-effect of hydrated lime. I sent my observation to Predfern, a rose-grower with Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry, and he sent me scientific studies to back up how tap-water glue clay into concrete. That's why I bought 3 rain-barrels and hooked them up to 4 garbage cans. The holes with rain water (pH 5.6), soil is fluffy, thus roots can get oxygen, leaves are dark-green and healthy. Thus the key of fixing clay is to DECREASE the % of fine-particle clay by INCREASING the % of COARSE matter, be it coarse sand, or coarse pine chunks, or coarse organic matter like alfalfa hay or leaves. The use of gypsum for alkaline soil is to cause clay particles to clump together in smaller chunks, allowing air to reach roots. There's a document that recommend the same, using lime for acidic clay, to break up clay into smaller chunks. I always use gypsum together with sand, its 17% sulfur or acidity and 22% calcium carbonate coat the particles, so they don't glue up together. P.S. I don't make up stuff just to impress, the info. came directly from the Soil booklet I got when I got my soil tested. Plus I double-check everything I read with Prefern, Ph.D. in Physical chemistry in my Chicagoland. I am an experimenter, and don't waste time in debating. I simply do it, and report the results....See MoreRpR_
11 years agoLaurel Zito
11 years agojrmckins
11 years agowayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
11 years agostrawchicago z5
11 years agomackel_in_dfw
11 years agoKimmsr
11 years agowayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
11 years agostrawchicago z5
11 years ago
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