Could this possibly Le Vesuve? I don't think so.

13 years ago

I added 2 'Le Vesuve's to my garden last November only to see flowers like these this spring.

My LeVesuve has grown very low, horizontal & outward and shows more China characteristics in the leaves. The new roses to me are purely tea and are sending more upright canes than mine ever did - or does. The flowers on mine have never been salmony but are deep bluish pink with definite red at the bases of the petals. Even when blown mine are not this salmon pink. The flowers on the new plants are semi-double and blow very quickly, buds a depper pink but not red like mine. I don't remember seeing such bright yellow stamens on my bushes. The leaves are different, too - tougher/thicker, glossier. My LeVesuve has large straight prickles that are red. The new roses have a combination - oldest ones are hooked & fairly small, young ones are straight, bigger and yellowish and some even bend the other way a little.

It's possible, I suppose, that they are very immature and the cool weather is effecting them - though my Le Vesuve is putting out his normal flowers and has been accept for the first few way back in March. The new bushes are just so much taller - close to 2' already. It took the old one 2 years to get that tall. I have not had to stake the new bushes either. I can not find any tea roses on HMF or Vintage that look like this rose. I really don't like the characteristics of this rose - very nondescript color and few petals. Not what I wanted in these 2 prominent positions. If, however, someone recognizes it as a good rose that simply needs to mature, then that will be great. I sure hope so.

Sherry

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (12)

olga_6b
13 years ago
It doesn't look like my Le Vesuve.
Olga
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
13 years ago
Doesn't look like mine, either. Mine is from Vintage.

You know it almost looks like 'Marie Daly' to me. Is it fragrant?

Here is a link that might be useful: Marie Daly @ helpmefind.
Related Discussions
Is Cl. Vesuve the same as Le Vesuve?
Q
Comments (15)
Ingrid, I understand your frustration. We cannot take old rose descriptions too literally. The descriptions were given in the 19th century terminology within the context of the roses known at that time. The term in French was "sarmentose", not "grimpant," the current term for climbing. Climbers as we know them were relatively uncommon at the time, only a couple of classes of climbing roses already existing: the early hybrid multifloras like de la Grifferaie, the Bousaults, a few climbing Tea and China sports, some Tea Noisettes (but some are quite bushy). Many Noisettes were described as sarmentose, and they are not all true climbers at all. Compare the early Noisettes to things like Jaune Desprez. Sarmentose isn't perfectly translated as climbing. Climbing as we think of it today - - with blooming laterals shooting off long basal canes - - are very much a product of the multiflora and wichurana ramblers of the early 1900's, though, as I said, there were some climbing roses in cultivation. With that background...My plants of Le Vesuve are much more spready than many Teas, with the canes arching out (hold your arms out to side, palms up, for the idea. Compare that habit to other Teas of the same era, like William R. Smith, and the habit of Le Vesuve is much more lax. It's like William Allen Richardson: spready, some growth lax, but can be grown as a large shrub. Second, some roses are sporting fools. Gregg Lowery describes Devoniensis that way: he can propagate the climber and get the bush, or vice versa, I can't remember which, all I know is that I ordered the climber and got the bush. Nature will do what it will do. And maybe the rose we call Le Vesuve is another. I can't describe very ancient plants of Le Vesuve all looking like bushes. Jackie's 100+ year old Le Vesuve was ginormous, not necessarily something I would describe as a normal bush. The canes are so long and tall that the blooming wood hung down, looking very much like a climber. Take a look at the link and judge for yourself. And the inverse is true. We've seen "Sawyer Plot Tea" in the flesh, clearly having hoisted itself into a tree, with a long skinny basal. But cutting-grown plants grown in the garden are bushes. I guess that the last point we have to consider is whether Ashdown sent me the wrong rose. If anyone else grows its climbing Le Vesuve, now would be a convenient time to speak up. Here is a link that might be useful:
...See More
I don't think I'm having auditory hallucinations, so what are...
Q
Comments (17)
I do vermicomposting...I have a bin with worms in it that I use for kitchen composting. Granted these are a lot of worms in an enclosed container, but when I open the top (exposing them to sunlight), you can actually 'hear' them as they retreat deeper into the bin...it's really weird! I can imagine that with larger worms like nightcrawlers, that if you had a few out and about, you'd hear them as they retreat under leaves, etc., back down into the ground. ~Michele
...See More
Lady banks?? I don't think so...
Q
Comments (5)
It may be that the rootstock it was grafted on has taken over, which is commonly a red once-blooming climber named Dr. Huey. (I'll put a link below to a description -- click on the "photos" tab for more pictures.) It also could be some other red climber that ended up with the wrong label. Lady Banks is either the yellow version you mentioned or the regular white variety. Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Huey
...See More
Icy Bathroom Floor - I Don't Think I Can Install Radiant Heat
Q
Comments (17)
Wow. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Bishop8 - it's a fire hazard to have towels too close to a baseboard heater. I believe the distance must be 8" between the top of the heater and the bottom of the towels, which should be fine, except for people and kids who fling the towel over the bar so that it slides down almost to the floor. Billl - yes, that's exactly what I want to do, heat the floor surface not so much the air. You said infrared heater. I think of those when I think of the old-fashioned bathroom ceiling heaters you still see occasionally in motels. Are you saying they make infrared baseboard or wall heaters? Do you know any brands you could point me to? Davidro - as I mentioned in my OP, I am not going to pull up floor tile, because I would never be able to re-do the marble floor tile to match the existing marble tub surround and shower walls. Also, this bathroom is an interior ensuite to the master bedroom - i.e. they share the floor structure, and there are no outside walls in the bathroom. But the bedroom floor feels fine, because it is not marble. It is the marble that is the issue, not the floor structure underneath the marble. Birdgardner - I thought of the attic too, which is actually little more than a crawl space above the bathroom. I checked up there again, and it is quite well-insulated. As I mentioned in my OP, you can feel the marble through slippers, and I should have mentioned they are the thick slippers which are normally warm! I am thinking of chucking the whole idea of a heater (and the cost) and getting a thick rug. Maybe I'll post a new thread on this Forum to ask for suggestions for bathroom rugs. Only problems with a rug is that it won't cover the entire standing area, and I am not a fan of rugs in bathrooms because they are dust/hair/powder/sprays traps. I guess there is no ideal solution, but I must weigh the pros and cons of all the solutions provided here. Thanks so much!
...See More
collinw
13 years ago
Doesn't look like mine.
harborrose_pnw
13 years ago
I thought it looked like Marie Daly also, but I don't think MD has any thorns. I does look like a polyantha to me, though.

Did you get it from Rose Petals? I wonder if you can narrow the field by checking the other rose offerings of the supplier?
sherryocala
Original Author
13 years ago
I've had Marie Daly before. The flowers on this bush are quite a bit bigger. My first one came from Vintage, 2nd from Ashdown as the climber, and these last two I got from Angel Gardens.

Sherry
rosyone
13 years ago
Mme. Antoine Mari?
sherryocala
Original Author
13 years ago
Rosyone, I definitely don't think it's MAM. I have her, too, and she's MUCH more beautiful than this rose. To me this rose looks like a breeding reject, sorry to say. I know that sounded awful, but...

Sherry
sherryocala
Original Author
13 years ago
Interestingly, last evening I was cleaning up Jean Bach Sisley who was/is in a really bad state with lots of dead canes and totally looking ugly, and I picked up a flower - not a typical flower for JBS - that looked exactly like my new Le Vesuve. It made me wonder if the new ones are JBS. Perhaps the weather has really knocked things out of whack, and these new roses haven't begun to show their real selves. Since they're on the north side of the house, they really haven't had as much sun as the front garden so that may be a contributing factor. But I must admit to being surprised that this nursery had this rose which seems to be pretty hard to find, so I remain skeptical.

Sherry
sammy zone 7 Tulsa
13 years ago
Does it look like Clair Matin?

{{gwi:262873}}
meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation
13 years ago
Sherry,

I have the exact same question about Mme d'Enfert! I have a rose whose tag says that, from Vintage, so ownroot, but she's in a pot ghetto with too much shade. I'd never let her bloom till this year.

I'd swear I was crazy and she couldn't bloom single flowers, but my Clothilde Soupert had crazy-small, much less double flowers this year.

I'm not familiar with petal count and flower-form issues in the Spring. I've never noticed such drastic changes.

**If I may tag on, is it possible that a kind-of-young Enfert in too much shade blooms with a low petal count and no cupping? Everything else fits very well for la Mme.**

Most of my very double OGRs look kind of like Noisettes this Spring! Clothilde is changing back now, btw. So weird.
sherryocala
Original Author
13 years ago
I think it's exactly what is happening. The cooler weather particularly at night slowed everything down. It seemed like they really wanted to bloom but just couldn't put much oomph into it.

My bushes have new buds now so we'll see what they look like with the recent heat. Keep your fingers crossed.

Sherry
jill_perry_gw
13 years ago
The clusters of flowers and fringing on the stipules make me think it's a polyantha rather than a tea.
Jill

Could this possibly Le Vesuve? I don't think so.

Comments (12)

olga_6b

hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

Related Discussions

collinw

harborrose_pnw

sherryocala
Original Author

rosyone

sherryocala
Original Author

sherryocala
Original Author

sammy zone 7 Tulsa

meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation

sherryocala
Original Author

jill_perry_gw

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Could this possibly Le Vesuve? I don't think so.

Comments (12)

Related Discussions

sherryocalaOriginal Author

sherryocalaOriginal Author

sherryocalaOriginal Author

sherryocalaOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

sherryocala
Original Author

sherryocala
Original Author

sherryocala
Original Author

sherryocala
Original Author