Has anyone tried an A./C in their GH during the summer?

16 years ago

I know, way ahead of time. It looks like I will not get mine covered to do any good this winter, but I really wanted it for the summer to try and keep growing during the HEAT. Has anyone tried to put an A/C in a greenhouse?

Will it work? Will it dry out all the plants? How to combat that? I did buy a Swampcooler this summer, but it was defective so I really don't know if one could work here, hence the A/C idea. I can get a small one for less than $100.00. Come on SB and others. Let's hear from you.

1eyedJack and the Dawg

Comments (34)

greenhouser
16 years ago
Why bother when you can grow your garden out doors? My GHs are empty in summer. The tropicals spend the warm months on the porches and under the trees. Veggies and flowers are grown outside.

I believe an AC would make the air very dry and the plants unhappy.
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
Because I am not growing tropicals. I am growing cole crops, ie lettuce and every day after June 20th this year was in the high 90's or and up to 111 degrees and that went into September. Lettuce doesn't do anything but bolt in that heat.

1eyedJack and the Dawg
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greenhouser
16 years ago
ole_dawg 7

You're going to have some expensive cole crops if you AC them.
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
About the same as you will have trying to keep your tropicals warm this winter.
What I have is a thought and I asked for comments from people with EXPERIENCE in keeping a GH cool, not hot. Of course all thoughts and comments are welcome however off the wall they are. :) LOL Jab, Jab, Jab

I have noticed of late that you are staying up way past the bed time for us seniors. I for one am off to beddy by very soon. 2nd graders again today.
cactusfreak
16 years ago
I don't know how well it will cool but I do know that A/C's add humidity to the air, not dry it out. At least here in the South where we naturally have high humidity.
We have to use dehumifiers to take moisture out of the house. It is suppose to make it cooler by removing the moisture and in the winter we use humidifers to add moisture into the dry indoor air to make it seem warmer.
Of course in a greenhouse you want humidity esp. for lettuce. Like at the grocery store they have mister that come on to keep the produce moist and fresh.
So it seems an A/C unit would help do that.
The two commercial greenhouses I saw here in Ga. with a swamp cooler mildewed and was so humid you couldn't breathe. It was pulling our already humid air thru more water. They did not seem to have enough HAF fans and the exhaust vents was not the same size as the swamp cooler. Which took up one entire end wall and only 3- 24 or 36 inch exhaust vents for about a 40x40 greenhouse.
But statics show swamp coolers will not work in high humidity. Where as a A/C will work no matter what the humidity.
Good article below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Swamp cooler and A/C's
orchiddude
16 years ago
I use a fogger to cool mine greenhouse all summer. Use the power of water and add humidity and cool air. My greenhouse stays about 80Â°F during HOT dry days.

I think for a smaller high light area where you need bright light but cool air, it would work. I have thought about it, but I would want some type of solar panel to run it.

My fogger works best for larger areas.
stressbaby
16 years ago
AC will dehumidify the air. This lowers the dew point and this is what makes you feel more comfortable.

I have never heard of anyone using AC in the GH. I would worry about the dehumidification of the air. That would increase transpirational water losses from the plants, potentially stressing the plants.

I agree with Orchiddude, go with the power of evaporative cooling. It will work, even in climates normally considered humid. Why? Because while counterintuitive, the fact is that climates normally considered hot and humid are seldom both at the same time. When the temps go up, the RH drops. Often my RH in August will drop into the 40s, occasionally into the upper 30s. Evap cooling works well at those RH readings. Look at Cactusfreaks chart...at 50% RH and 90F, you can still get an 11F drop in temp with evap cooling. The nice thing is that the evap cooling is needed just when the temps are the hottest and the extra humidity is needed most.

I must say that it is all a little easier said than done. I have fiddled with my Aquafogger, misters, thermostat, and exhaust fan settings a lot, and I am fairly happy with the results, but I haven't gotten the jaw-dropping drops in temp that OD gets (80F in the GH with 95F outside). I have several theories on this, but that is another thread.
cactusfreak
16 years ago
A/C may dehumidify some but not when the humidity is 100%. I am close to Dawsonville. Where the humdity is 100% almost every day in August without rain and we are in the worst drought on record. August 22 2007 we hit 104*.
Change the 'Variable' to 'tempertures' and the date to the 22nd. ATL airport reading was 104* Dawsonville 103*.
On July 2 low humidity was 71.
So here a swamp cooler would not work except in the early morning hours when it is cool.
I use misters and still had a hard time staying under 100* because we are also on water restrictions and I had to cut my timers by half. If I had them going 10-15 mins every hour and water everything with sprinklers twice a day I could stay close to 80*. I had a $500 dollar water bill in August with topping off the pond and swimming pool and watering an acre of Hostas and ferns and misting and watering the greenhouse and other household use.

Here is a link that might be useful: Georgia humidity
orchiddude
16 years ago
I also think that when looking for something to cool a greenhouse, one must remember that the humidity in the GH will be different than outside in your yard. I also think that when looking at the humidity reports, you must factor in where these reports are and that you might have a micro climate. I had over 20 people tell me that a fogger would NOT work in my area. For years, I fought the heat, only to wonder why? There was one man in Georga at a greenhouse company that I would talk with a few times a year. He said it would work. It did, and it works good. I think on average, a greenhouse will be drier that most of the areas from where the reports on humidity come from.

I have shared with SB some of my numbers and what I can cool at with outside temps into the high nineties. Over the years, I have been about to get 15 degree differences, more times than not, at least a 10 degree difference and on special occasions, I have seen 20 degree differences.

One note, Alabama is considered a humidity state, but inside my GH its dry.

The beauty of all this, my water bill is no more than 25 extra dollars and the added sewer bill is no more than 10. One way to avoid the extra sewer, is to install an additional meter.
stressbaby
16 years ago
"So here a swamp cooler would not work except in the early morning hours when it is cool."

Untrue! Cactusfreak, you have fallen for the evaporative cooling myth! Your link is a perfect illustration of my point. Sure temps get high, but NEVER is the RH high at the same time. Go to Dawsonville, August 22. Compare temp and RH. When the temp peaks at 14:02, the RH is twenty-five percent! And the chart in your previous link shows that at 100F and 25% RH you can get a 20F drop with evap cooling.

Yes, on July 2 the RH was unusually high at 71, but that is the notable exception. Two days either side of 7/2 and your RH bottoms out at 42% and 45%. Just flipping through July, you have an occasional day when the RH doesn't get into the 60s, but you have lots of days in the 40-60% range as well. Several readings in August get into the 30-40% range. This occurs at 1-2pm, just when it is the hottest, just when evap cooling is most needed and when it would be most effective.

If you are keeping your GH close to 80F with misters in the summer, then you are, in a way, using evap cooling. ;-)
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
Stress if Correct. I kept records of RH before I bought the SC. By early afternoon RH would DROP to around 35 to 40 and that was just about every day. Early morning RH way up there and as soon as it got dark as well. No here in the Upcountry of SC I think a SCooler will work, ONLY I am reluctant to try again.

1eyedJack and the Dawg
birdwidow
16 years ago
ole_dog: I'm likely one of the very few posters to this forum who seriously considered AC in a GH and did actually discuss the notion here, but not for the benefit of cool weather veggies that are seasonally cheapest in supermarkets right about the time they would wilt in a GH.

My concern is fish tanks that can't be allowed to get hotter than 80 deg tops, with 78 really better, so I did look into buying one of those portable ACs on wheels and will, in Jan or Feb, when this year's stock is most likely to be on final closeout sale.

But even with the tight insulation in my GH, coupled with heavy bubble lining and aluminet shade cloths, trying to AC it in general simply isn't practical. I can justify it only because after monitoring the GH temps on a near hourly basis through several of the hottest August days, I calculated that I would only need to run AC for about 4 - 6 hrs a day, but ONLY when the outside temp rises above 90, which really isn't more than 10 - 16 days in our hottest summers and even then, the portable AC may still be as much for my peace of mind as actual use in the GH, as my husband plans to use it in the garage when he tinkers with my steel rival.

It's really a case of the temps you would need to keep your GH to be able to grow your cool weather veggies and for how long. Otherwise, your energy costs would very likely be greater than that of simply shopping for your veggies at your local supermarket. Actually, the cost of growing veggies for the table for the average sized family usually does, with or without an AC'd GH. Most of us here truck garden for the pleasure of it and the ability to eat it fresh from the garden, not because we are saving on our grocery bills.

If you haven't yet constructed your GH and heat is such an issue for you, you really would be better off with a pit GH, the deeper the better. A pit GH is still as much the best design for energy conservation now, as it has been since the only means of heating a GH was a masonry built fireplace. Pit GH's are by nature, passively warmer in winter and cooler in summer than any full above ground style, and if or untill science actually produces home model fusion energy units, will likely remain so.
greenhouser
16 years ago
cactusfreak 7

Our house AC dries the air out and we're pretty humid here in TN. The water it removes from the air drips onto the ground from a pipe exiting the unit. But then when the heat comes on in fall it dries the air out also. I have 2 humidifiers running in the sun room for the plants in winter.
ladylotus
16 years ago
Please excuse my ignorance. I googled 'fogger' and am wondering if these units will work in humidifying and decreasing heat in his greenhouse?

http://www.mainlandmart.com/instruct.html

OR is this just a fashion item?
cactusfreak
16 years ago
greenhouser, my A/C drain has a pump that goes into a rain barrel but still we have days when the dehumidifer has to be emptied twice. About 2 1/2 gals each time.
They call this HOT Lana for a reason. It's not the heat - it's the humidity. But of course I was only born and raised and lived here all my life so far. I have never been further north than TN. Nor do I really care to.
Not to offend the north I also would never live in Fla..Ala,La, maybe live in Texas and diffinetly live in NM. Never Calif. or Oregon. etc, etc,.
I have been to Az, TX. and NM and though it is hotter there it does not feel like it because it's dry.
I could walk for hours there and never sweat. Here I sweat if I open the door and sometimes just sitting inside.
But hey what do I know. Some people seem to know better than me. Not ment to offensive toward you.
I try not to get personal with my post as some do but when I am attacked I must state my personal opinion.
kittyl
16 years ago
When my husband and I built my greenhouse a year ago, I wasnÂt sure what I would do to cool it during the summer. At the time I thought IÂd have to get a swamp cooler for the future summer days which could easily be over a month of over 100 degrees.
We built a custom 10 x 12. We did not put in roof vents. I read about someone using an attic exhaust fan to pull air through, so that was the first thing we put in, on the north wall, and I was pleased to see how just removing the hot air kept the interior temperature down to be nearly the outside air. Then I stumbled on an idea of adding a mister. We had one in the barn for cooling animals (piped stand, 3 foot tall, with 2 misters), so I took it and placed it in front of my storm door which has a window which opens. I discovered it works just like a swamp cooler, the attic fan is pulling air in through the door, and the mister/water evaporates and cools the air.
IÂve gone through one hot summer, and it worked just fine. I have a min/max thermometer so I know my daily temperatures. The single attic fan is a whole lot less electricity than an Air Conditioner, and the water mister is really no cost at all.
Late summer I added an automatic watering system with fine sprays. With everything on automatic, I have gone on vacation for over a week and upon returning everything was just fine in the greenhouse.
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
Catus person,
You have to excuse her. She is NOT FROM TN. She is, dare I say it, A YANKEE from NY. LOL She does not know how hot it get in Atlanta GA. Having family in Tucker, GA I know. But let us still remember Ms Scarlett and be helpful and kind.
BTW, What in the hell are you doing trying to raise catus in GA. LOL

1eyedJack and the Dawg
greenhouser
16 years ago
cactusfreak 7

No one is attacking you. We all live in different areas of the country. Where I am now it's both hot and humid in the summer. We have a heat-pump. In summer when it's running it will bring the humidity down inside the house. I'm just wondering - your AC unit doesn't do that? We don't need a dehumidifier. In winter it also dries the air out so we have the humidifiers. Maybe you misunderstood what I said?
greenhouser
16 years ago
kittyl

You said the mister costs nothing. Do you pump your own water? Many of us have to pay for water and it sure can add up when something is running.
kittyl
16 years ago
The mister uses so little water. I think theyÂre rated at 1 gal. per hour; at 8 hrs per day on the very hottest days, thatÂs only 248 gals in a month. Most days I don't run it 8 hrs. I donÂt think itÂs impacted my water bill to any extent. However, my A/C can bump the electric bill up several hundreds of dollars.
I do have a well in addition to district water, but I only use the well to irrigate flower beds and the lawn.
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
Damn, I can not get a rise out of anybody. Not that I would try.
Basic fact: A/C's do dry the air out. That is how they work
Swamp Coolers do only work with the humidity is low or lower.
Misters I don't know about YET.
FACT: I want to LOWER the temp in my GH (which is still not complete) during the really hot time here in SC.

FACT: I do not grow catus.
FACT: I do not grow tropicals
FACT: I do not grow flowers
FACT: I DO WANT TO GROW LETTUCE AND OTHER COLE CROPS.
FACT: I do want to grow them during the summer hot months.
FACT: The RH is high here in the morning.
FACT: The RH is much lower after mid day when the temp is going up there. It sometimes drops to the 30 to 40 % level.
FACT: The RH goes up in the late afternoon WHEN THE TEMP GOES BACK DOWN.
FACT: So maybe I will try and buy another swamp cooler this coming summer OR I MAY ALSO TRY AN A/C since the cost of either one is about the same.

FACT: It is unbelievably warm here for this time of year. Like 70 right now and 77 earlier in the day.

FACT: What the hell is going on with our weather?

Time for another nap.

1eyedJack and the Dawg
laserfan
16 years ago
>Damn, I can not get a rise out of anybody.

You getting senile in your old age? 20+ responses in a couple days isn't enough to get you wired-up? ;)

You're a smart guy--make a decision. If you need ideas, visit local nurseries to see what they do.

To me the only things that make sense for GH cooling are a swamp cooler, or nothing (not using it in the summer). Conventional A/C is expensive and dries-out everything (or at least attempts to, at great cost).
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
The rise I was talking about was one of the posters. I am not so sure if I am smart
dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m
16 years ago
For those of you who have air conditioners:

If you are getting lots of condensate water draining out, you may not have installed your A/C unit properly.

Check the installation manual regarding leveling the units.

Most A/C units are designed to utilize the condensate water to splash on the condensate coil (outside coil) using the fan. The condensate water will evaporate on the coil to increase economy of running the unit.

If you tilt you unit too much, all the water will drain out and you are wasting money (and rated BTU capacity).

dcarch
greenhouser
16 years ago
Old_dawg said:

FACT: It is unbelievably warm here for this time of year. Like 70 right now and 77 earlier in the day.

FACT: What the hell is going on with our weather?

Global warming maybe? It's been an unusually long warm fall here and now it looks like an above normal winter. It' now 68F here and kind of feels more like spring than winter. My sun room and GH plants are enjoying the fresh air. If this continues will next summer be another 100+ heat wave (and drought?).
tom_n_6bzone
16 years ago
Hey Dawg, I know that this doesn't address your question directly, but if you have room for thermal storage, like water barrels, they will absorb the heat during the hot summer days and moderate the temperatures. When the heat is released at night you can use exhaust fans if necessary. It would certainly reduce your energy expense if you used the other methods for further cooling.
~Tom
garyfla_gw
16 years ago
Hi
At one time I had my GH tied into the house central system.. Worked great as long as it wasn't hot lol.
I could get a fair drop at night but since I couldn't keep it cool enough for high altitude tropicals I disconected it. Wasn't worth the effort . Went back to
warm growers..
I have seen some glazed with polarized glass and refrigeration,systems . They work but wouldn't want to pay the power bill. Since at least 11 months are above 75 seems like a waste at least in this location. gary
greenhouser
16 years ago
garyfla 10

Why would you even need a GH living in zone 10?
garyfla_gw
16 years ago
hi
Same reason anybody wants a GH .So I can be a "zone stretcher lol" It can and does get too cold, is either too wet or too dry,always too sunny, frequently too windy and even occasionally the humidity is too low lol.
The only difference is ,not nearly as often as other locations lol.
Doesn't everybody want to grow something that won't grow in their zone?? . Sounds like I need a GH??
gary
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
So it would seem. I am also look in to just making shade. That would help some, but when the air temp is 105 in the shade you have to do something.

2eyedJack and the Dawg
garyfla_gw
16 years ago
Hi
Didn't realise it got that hot in SC!! You must be away from the ocean and no mountain influances.??
I'm somewhat fortunate that I live near the sea so low 90's are tops but for 4 months ,5 this year. Another good thing is that as the temp goes up the humidity does also.
Most tropicals don't like it but will tolerate it. Another advantage I have is that the house creates a cast
shadow on the area for around two months. I grow vines on the roof lattice which are removed during winter. I have almost continuous breeze off the ocean .
I must grow lowland tropicals as temperates turn to mush during summer Highlands won't even tolerate winter lol.
As I mentioned ,at one time I had it hooked into the central air. I discontinued it after a short time for many reasons,.. A swamp cooler was a total waste here probably due to the humidity. gary
ole_dawg
Original Author
16 years ago
So Gary, Where exactly in FL do you live. 10 should put you below the Lake.
Yes, this summer had been a record breaker here without a doubt.

1eyedJack and the Dawg (The Dawg is not my wife, I don't have one)
greenhouser
16 years ago
garyfla 10

I didn't even know you had frost in zone 10! =:-O
garyfla_gw
16 years ago
Hi
I'm in Palm Beach county the northern limit of 10.
greenhouser Afaid so lol. The only frost proof place is Key West. Doesn't do it every year and have only experienced one hard freeze .27 for four hours though it got to 22 by the lake. We once had a snow, 77/78 as I recall. What a sight that was lol. Has never done it again . Since I'm so close to the gulf stream I'm usually about 5/ 8 degrees above the inland parts of the county
Last year the low was 37 while 42 the year before. Cold fronts usually last 3 days with each night progessively warmer. The coldest daytime I remember was 53.
It's kind of interesting as in order to frost the cold air must come straight down the peninsula and it must be dead calm. and perfectly clear. Other wise the warm ocean raises the temps.as well as cloud cover prevents radiation.
So the next day is always brilliant sunshine with an incredible rise in ground temps while the air can stay cool.
My first attempt at heating the GH was using sheet plastic. Worked beautifully during the night with a low of 30. I went to work before dawn and was so thrilled the GH
was toasty 60 lol When I came home it was 140 degrees inside while outside was 62 lol. I lost everything lol.
My new system will work !! gary

Has anyone tried an A./C in their GH during the summer?

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