Since neither the "breeder" (known only as Lodi) nor G. Bonfiglioli, the nurseryman who introduced VdB, addressed the parentage issue, nothing contemporaneous is to be found. There is no record of Lodi ever having bred or discovered a rose other than VdB, so one can speculate that she/he was an ordinary gardener. Altho the date of introduction was 1909, the rose might well have existed for many years -- as a solitary specimen or as a pass-along -- before it came to the attention of the Bonfiglioli firm. Chances are parentage wasn't revealed simply because no one knew or remembered. Absent the results of DNA testing, it's all speculation. To be correct, I guess we should be saying that VdB is thought/assumed/purported to be a sport of 'Victor Emmanuel'. Every reference book I have, though, states unequivocally that VE is the sport parent. It would be interesting to know who was first to voice that opinion.

@JAXONDEL: I could not send you a private message, but will write it here anyway. If you are interested, please send me an e-mail to stay in touch. First of all thank you so much for your detailed reply in the Forum. It was absolutely interesting reading what you write, although I must confirm that the rose I am trying to ID is not ‘Captain Christy’. This means that we still have to research about its identity, but, on the other hand, I just LOVE research! : ) Checking the web of “Vintage Garden-Antique and Extraordinary Roses”, I paid special attention to HP ‘Clio’ and another HP I cannot recall right now (cause I am at the office and do not have my notes); but no one of these fits completely well with my rose. I also post my message in Peter Beales’s Forum with no replies, so I am thinking about sending the pictures to someone in “Vintage Gardens” or to Fabien Duchers, in England. In reference to your question, YES! I am the one that post the pictures of ‘Chantre’ in HMF and also received some cuttings but they did not survived, unfortunately (they arrived from the Nothern Hemisphere and it was very hot when I received them). What’s more, I have looking in the forum last weekend for the message where someone (maybe you) asked about ‘Nantucket’-the same message I replied years ago-because I wanted to contact the person that was interested in ‘Chantre`, since there are not many people that know this cultivar, but it seems like if the message was deleted. And, as well as this, I am also the same guy who wanted to reconstruct my grandfather’s garden (amazing memory!!!). Among the roses I wanted to get, three of the most valuable were ‘Chantre’, itself, ‘Korder Perfecta Superior’ and Dr. Debat but I could not get any of them yet! :( Well, all by now. I send you my personal e-mail since I would like to stay in touch with you more often, if you are interested: mariano_saviello83@yahoo.com.ar. Once we stay in touch I will send you the link of another Picassa album, with a very interesting red HT we also grow, which is still unknown. We assume it should be very special since many rose growers have offered good money to get it, but none of them wanted to reveal its name! ;)

Info at HMF on Huntington Brocade/Variegata di Bologna Rouge is confusing: *Bred by M. Lowe in 1984, introduced by Unknown in 1973.* If taken literally, this rose was introduced 11 years before it first appeared. (How's that for anticipation?) A probable scenario is that multiple growers have, over time, found (and then successfully propagated) these solid-colored sports. Mr Beales now seems to be at least the third person to have done so -- ergo, Mrs Yamada. Apparently Vintage Gardens and the folks at HMF believe the 1973 and the 1984 roses to be identical; I suppose it remains to be seen whether Mrs Yamada is distinct in any way. Anyone who grows Variegata di Bologna knows that one of the many charms of this rose is the wild variation of color distribution among its blooms. I've always assumed that blooms approaching being solid red, if propagated, would simply revert to type. I'm glad to know that's not always the case. Jeff: How long ago did you purchase your Mrs Yamada from Hortico? I'd be interested in a grafted plant, but it isn't listed in Hortico's two most recent catalogs. (Based on Riku's comment above, perhaps the rose was withdrawn from distribution by Canadian vendors? Hmmmm . . .)

Possible reason why Cemeteryroses' friends has had several sports. This theory was something I read in ORGANIC GARDENING AND FARMING MAGAZINE decades ago when the originator was editing it. Apparently farmers had noticed that there were certain areas in their fields where the plants where known to frequently mutate. Testing showed that in these areas there were (I believe-geophysicists help me out) electromagnetic fields either entering or exiting the earth's surface. And in the " hot spots" the forces were so strong that it encouraged genetic mutations in the plants. Apparently these waves enter and exit in specific areas around the globe. They were detected with suitable meters which registered the increased forces. Sorry I am not more specific on the details but it was over thirty years ago- they ran a series of articles on the phenomenon then it died out. Maybe someone can pipe in with more knowledge of the forces than I have remembered. Jim