I just got my first order from Chamblee's last week, and was delighted to see how large the roses are. And for such a low price! They were super-healthy and well-packaged as well. I will definitely be ordering from them again in the future.

But I do wonder if perhaps Gardenmariella might not simply be unfamiliar with how to care for new roses. There are plenty of plants that you can just put in the ground and forget. Even in October. She may be new to roses or to her area. When I was planting my first roses - only 4 years ago - I was genuinely confused about fall planting. I had previously grown only herbs and veggies, so my idea of a perennial was something that is better off going in in the fall (like most woody herbs, garlic, overwintering greens, etc.) so that it can put down good enough roots for the burst of demanding top-growth in the spring. Well, I learned that roses aren't like that - in this zone anyway. And that bands are delicate little babies - some more so than others - that need special care. Even this year I lost a couple because I let them overwinter in bands, instead of pots. They came through the cold just fine, but succumbed to canker with all the spring moisture. Now, I never blamed the nursery because I knew how ignorant I was/am. But I can see how someone could be confused on all kinds of issues relating to rose care. And even good nurseries can send out disappointing plants once in awhile. If it's your first purchase, you don't necessarily know that. I'm just saying maybe she needed some help figuring stuff out.

I would also question whether one nasty complaint trashing a nursery would go very far toward toward ruining the business. When I look at GardenWatchdog ratings, I take into account that most businesses are going to get one or two disgruntled griper feedbacks that are totally undeserved. What I look at is the detailed content of the feedbacks, and the overall consensus. Chamblee's has such a good reputation - in large part, thanks to this forum - that I couldn't wait to order from them, despite the fact they carried nothing on my wish list for quite some time. In fact, the reason I clicked on this thread was to see how in the world someone could have a serious problem with such a good and reputable vendor. I would hope that people mail-ordering plants would take the small amount of extra time needed to look at more than one comment before judging any nursery. What really scares me is that people might be scared off of rose-growing altogether, and then we all suffer. Uncommon and Sequoia didn't close because of negative feedbacks. But A LOT of people still think roses are too hard to grow and give up.

Just want to add that I've had a lot of good luck planting some tiny roses in fall here in zone 7. I know of several other people in colder zones than mine who have had pretty good luck planting in fall. There are several things you can do to increase your odds. One, don't forget to water even in winter if it's dry. Two, mulch but don't pile mulch on stems or they'll rot. Three, if you have potted roses outside in winter give them some protection from wind. Of course you don't feed them close to winter either.
Linda

Not to worry Ron, not feeling attacked at all. You are one of my favorite people, too.

It is true that a careless comment can do harm to a good business, and a malicious one even more so. I'm sorry you have had to endure this kind of thing. My own sense of fair play compelled me to jump to the defense of Chamblees. Of course such errors must be set straight when they are made on a public forum. But that same sense of fair play made me worry that we had overdone it with someone who may be honestly inexperienced, and whose disappointment and frustration led her to speak in haste.

True, I'm sure most everyone has said some things they truly regret at some point or other (I know I have), still, it helps to keep one's foot out of one's mouth to think about the consequences as often as possible!

--Ron

Do you think maybe this poster was just trying to stir things up? It makes no sense to me that someone would even make a comment like that while admitting to neglecting the roses. The fact that this person has not reappeared to respond (perhaps sheepishly) makes me wonder if this whole thing is legit.

Sandy

It's probably frustration. I was frustrated with the 3 roses I lost from Chamblees. And I'm frustrated now with thrips. I just don't know who to blame for that :)

I agree it would be good if there were an "edit post" or even a "delete post" function here. The ProBoards message boards have that capability, and I've deleted more than one of my own less-than-brilliant posts in the past. ::/

I lost three bands purchased from a California nursery which had made it through our winter (in pots) just fine. They died in the spring *after* leafing out and being transplanted--no idea why. But I don't blame the vendor for something that had been off their property for six months.

I think we scared her off.

What could be more saddening and maddening than looking forward all winter to a couple of blossoms, to plants that would become more lovely each year, only to realize that all you have are dead twigs and that you're not blameless? Blaming someone else, while perhaps a natural if childish impulse, seems unreasonable. Perhaps it was a hoax.

Gardenermariella, if you're still with this thread, I'm so sorry you lost your roses. I always plant mine in the fall and they make it. Try again. I do protect them when the temps are to go below 28, if I remember. I invert a pot over the little babies.

Nice call, Sandy. I often think of trolls, but this one got by me. T

She really got her money's worth of laughs this time.

Sammy

I just received my first-ever Chamblees order a couple of weeks ago. I was lured by their low prices and by the comments on this forum, but didn't expect much, simply because their prices were so low (I guess I listened to the purchasers' trap cliche: you get what you pay for).

Wow, I was happy to be wrong. My roses are beautiful. Mme Isaac Periere was covered, COVERED! in buds. We all know this is a per snikity rose. The other 11 I ordered were just as good: a mixture of teas, chinas, and ramblers which work well in my wooded, south coastal yard. (And a couple of DA's too).

They were comperable in size to Rose's Unlimited's roses. So not small.

That said, I will definitely water well. Living things need care.

AJ

Okay, I just posted a complementary posting about Chamblees. Now I feel compelled to post on gardenermariella's behalf.

Mariella was honest about the actions she took with regard to her roses: she planted in fall. She forgot. She didn't really malign Chamblees. Had I posted a similar comment, I would feel mortified about the rather vehement response from the forum. I don't know how often Mariella posts here, but she hasn't answered, so I assume she may feel a bit upset (possibly).

Well, don't be upset Mariella, you were dissatisfied, and you gave enough information to this forum so that it was clear that Chamblees was still worth using as a rose source.

I have to applaud that. Please don't hesitate to post here in the future.

We rosaholics need support!

KPV is a small rose in its first 2-3 years. I rooted a very few and I cannot say that they grew fast if the weather wasn't optimal; and I garden in zone 8. I am not even sure that KPV is hardy in zone 6.

As to Chamblee's. My second order this year from Chamblee's consisted of about 20 roses, mostly Bucks and a few teas - all were huge and perfectly healthy. Both roots and top growth are superb and needed immediate repotting into bigger pots.
I could not have been happier with my purchase.

Fall planting own root roses is a disaster waiting to happen. They don't have enough time to get established before the temps fall. If you get a late season warm spell followed by a serious temperature plunge, kiss the roses goodbye. This was lack of understanding of what you were getting (small own root roses are what you are supposed to get from Chamblees) along with a lack of understanding about rose culture. Your post does not say what zone you are in, but unless you are in an area without serious winter cold, own roots in the fall = dead roses in the spring.

Jean

And some day the sun will supernova, burn the earth to such a crisp not even the cockroaches will survive, and none of this--or anything else--will matter.

[yawn]

Hi Jean
It is good to hear from you. I hope you post more often. I am working on a "no spray" garden, and you certainly are one of the posters with the most expertise in a zone almost like Tulsa.

Please keep coming.

Sammy

Don't even know where to start, but I'll give it a shot.

First, I'm not a troll, just been too busy to answer, but also wondered why I should, since so many had already passed judgment. I don't feel I need to defend myself. Most of the observations I laid out were purely factual, except for the last statement where I said I wouldn't be ordering from Chamblees again. That's totally my prerogative, isn't it? I certainly was not suggesting or recommending anybody else do like-wise. I just had a bad experience with some of the roses I ordered from them, I'm very disappointed, even if some of it is my fault, and I would prefer to order from other vendors I've been luckier with, that's all.

Second, yes, I'm fairly new to rose-growing, only been doing it five-six years. Till this past Fall and this last order all I had done was put a little more than a dozen bushes in, prune and dead-head. So, undoubtedly, still lots to learn, although as I said in my original post I have now learnt not to plant in the Fall.

Now, just for clarification purposes, let me add that I have in my garden growing other Kronprincessin Viktorias. I had put three in (in the spring of 2002), lost one out of the three and replaced it and all three are doing very well, except that the bushes are still on the small side compared to my others (Marie Pavies, Clotilde Soupert, etc) put in at the same time.

As far as the infamous order I received from Chamblees, I prepared the bed with the utmost of care following instructions I had gotten with another prior order I had received from Roses Unlimited. Besides three Kronprincessins, I ordered four other roses. Treated them all the same, that means if I "neglected" (a word I never used) the KV I neglected the others as well. And yet, the other four survived. If I had at least one Kronprincessin survive then I might have been less hasty with my blame. All in all, it's possible that everything colluded to make it impossible for these KVs to survive: their very small size, as received, and the fact they don't seem to grow beyond two feet even after a number of years, my attempt to plant them in the Fall, etc. But that conclusion or realization isn't enough for me to not want to favor those other vendors I've had more success with.

If I could re-do this post I'd probably go for a heading that was worded a little more kindly, and I do apologize about that, especially to all the Chamblee fans.

I appreciate your response. Most of us are quite sensitive to criticism towards the vendors. There are so many people who read these posts, and also many comments go online. I think we must be very careful when we criticize the vendors.

Frankly you are free to say whatever you wish. I wish I could have taken back many of the things I have said over the years, but I cannot -- that's life.

I hope you will continue to post, and get to know us better.

Sammy

I guess some of us are confused, as your original post said that you ordered, received, and planted those three Kronpincessins from Chamblees this past September. Your most recent post says you had them for several years, which is a contradiction.

You certainly have a right to order or not order from whom you please, and to express what your experiences have been. We all have our favorite nurseries that we like to purchase our roses from. However, I do feel you have been unfair to Chamblees in this case.

I do not know what zone you are in, but only the warmer southern states can get away with fall planting of small roses, and at no time can a newly planted rose be totally neglected. At a bare minimum, they would need to be on automatic drip irrigation if thay were not to be kept hand watered. Colder zones need winter protection. The Antique Rose Emporium states that during the first whole year of planting that the roses need protection if the temperatures are going to dip below 28 degrees F. Even if your rose bed had been properly prepared, it can never make up for lack of care, or protection, during the initial establishment period. You never used the word "neglected", but the words that you did use "forget about for 6 months" is the same thing.

I'm honestly not trying to offend you, and I'm not judging you. We all make mistakes, both with actions and words. However, I'm an extremely honest person, and if I feel something is not fair or quite right, I speak up about it.

I hope you continue to participate, as this forum is full of wonderful and very knowledgeable people. Many have written rose articles and are quite "famous" in the rose world, though they are humble people, and you would never guess as such. I know that I haved learned a great deal here, have had lots of help with planning, and hopefully have helped some others along the way too. Oh, and sometimes we have a good laugh too. This is what makes this forum so rewarding.

Sandy

Sandy, Gardenmariella says that others KPVs she ordered from other vendors in earlier years and planted them in spring and those survived - so there is no contradiction there; it just reinforces the opinion that many of us tried to emphasize that in PA (probably zone 6) one cannot plant a small own root in October and then forget about it.

By the same token, it is true that you, gardenmariella indeed, never used the word 'neglected them' but planting small Bourbons in October and forget them till spring amounts to the same, IMHO. However, by all means, order from whoever you want to order from, but if you order from your favorite vendors in September and plant their small own roots in October, then you forget about them till spring, let say, till April, the result will most probably will be the same.
I think most of us wanted to say only this and nothing more.

Ceterum,
Even if 4 out of the 7 own-roots I planted in September made it, I'm not willing to repeat this experiment with other vendors just to find out if their KVs survive planting in the Fall, but your comment could certainly end up being totally right. I trust I've learnt my lesson that planting in the Spring guarantees more success, and that it sticks.

I'm sure there's a ton of wisdom and knowledge for the taking if I made it a habit to come here more often. Thanks.

OP might have gotten a more favorable response if he/she had framed this a question as to this is what happened and what do you think went wrong?

But, OP stated a very strong personal opinion as fact, about the roses, the vendor and what happened while admitting they were neglected, and later returns to change the scenario to make it sound more favorable to other vendors and their roses, stating only limited experience of 5-6 years and while that may be limited experience compared to Ann or Jerri, here that is not limited experience and if I or others here only learned a couple lessons here, I think they are valid.

Lessons learned for me when I first started posting are that it is not a good idea to introduce oneself to a forum by negativity regarding one of the vendors who is rated to be one of the best amongst posters here, condemning the plants which for the price is a great buy and then further stating not enough time to respond although there was plenty of time to condemn, criticize and complain.

What am I missing here?

Grdenmariella,
I 'searched' your other post on Gardenweb and found that you are near Philadelphia.
You might want to check with Eck House and Garden Museum in Philadelphia (maybe on Chesnut Street). They sell old garden roses in spring that they buy from Pickering, pot up and grow for sale. With over a century of gardening experience there, they may have a list of proven surviving plants for your part of the world. As well as a list of more challenging plants.

And you still haven't told us what USDA Zone you are in. That can make a world of difference. You are in PA so it is either zone 5 or 6. Souvenir de la Malmaison is borderline hardy in zone 6. I have no problem with her in zone 6b but I've read some negative reports in zones 6a and colder. An own root Kronprincessin Viktoria PLANTED IN OCTOBER has a low chance of survival in zones 5-6. Neglect it and we are looking at certain death.

You murdered the roses.

I've consistently received good plants from Chamblees over the years. Their plants tend to be bigger, are definitely cheaper, and the customer service is friendly.

Aren't you glad you posted!

I am just glad you didn't dis Sam K, Vintage, or Pickering, etc., or I would have to pile on. LOL!

If one wants to grow some of the weird stuff then bands it is. I order mine for spring delivery then I can pot them up and plant them when they get to size. Two of Ralph Moore's minis are out of pots and growing well in the ground. Two others Baltimore Belle and Aunt Honey have another month or so to go on our deck potted up before battling the elements in rather than less ideal locations, but they will have to make do or die.

Many of us have delt with these band providers, many of them family concerns, who as times have gone beyond the pale to make us happy.

For instance I had ordered the "Popularity Poll Collection" from the Lily Garden. I had a production line set up and with the post hole digger. Angela North a small little wee bulb got planted with all the others 6"-8" deep.

Big suprise it didn't come up. Boy did I feel dumb, AGAIN. I wrote them anywho and Judith Freeman was nice enough not only to send me a replacement bulb but three with detailed handwritten instructions and they are up and growing.

Me a happy bird!

Foghorn

I think her explanation was pretty decent. Why all the animus? She apologized for ill-worded, hasty negativity.

Honestly, you'd think no one here ever killed a plant through insufficient attention, knowing or unknowing. I, for one, have done it tons of times, and have learned that buying certain sizes of certain types of plants doesn't work for me due to my unwillingness to baby all but a very few plants. Sometimes this means not buying from certain vendors. Big deal.

Here's a for instance. A few years back I was so pathetically smitten with Sissinghurst Castle that I ordered it from Hortico - the only mail-order vendor carrying it at the time in North America. Well, I didn't realize it was bare-root. I guess in my first throes of rose mania and the accompanying rose-buying frenzy, I didn't catch that. Well, when I received it I tried to do my best with it, but I was in the middle of planting tons of other stuff at the time. Now, this was my ultimate prize rose, but I think I killed it. It died of canker and I think I killed it by overbabying it. I didn't understand bare-root. Since then I've pretty much decided I would avoid ever ordering from Hortico, even though I've had great success with DA bareroots subsequently. I just think maybe shipping from Canada in plastic bags in the spring might be a bit too much risk for me and my conditions (VERY wet springs with wild temp swings). So, I've been known to say I'll never order from Hortico again. Granted, I didn't take it to the forum, nor would I blame the company. I'm just not too sure she's really blaming the company exactly. It's just not a good fit for her.

And, to be perfectly honest about something else... We all have rose vendors that we absolutely adore. For me, it's Vintage, ARE, and Rogue Valley. But I gotta tell you, I've occasionally received roses that I've been disappointed in from awesome vendors. If I only had 12 roses in the ground over 5 or 6 years, and I got something I wasn't too happy with from a new vendor, I probably wouldn't be too impressed with them either. It's only because I've ordered dozens over my meager 5 years of rose growing that I'm wise to this. To me, knowing I can handle bands just fine, I'm totally ok with a sad, puny plant of a rare variety. When I receive a clematis or daylily that's pathetic, I'm kind of unhappy about it because you lose a season. The standards are different with those plants in the trade, but it takes a while to get to know that. She doesn't have much ordering experience. I'd cut her some slack. A lot of slack, actually.

And, as far as not having time to respond before a billion indignant retorts were posted...maybe she works a lot, or has 6 kids (like me), or is a full-time student, or had company in town, or family issues, or.....Geez. Maybe the best thing we can do for Chamblees and the other good vendors out there is be supernice to the newbie, and get her to give them another chance, as a more informed buyer and gardener this time. I've always thought the people on this forum were unusually nice and generous (and some here certainly have been to OP, like Ann and others), and I would like Gardenermariella to be able to see that too. Bottom line: don't judge a rose by it's first bloom, don't judge a vendor by one poor plant, and don't judge a forum by an overheated response to your first, awkward post. We all just really respect the folks who feed our addiction. :)

Peace to all gardeners,
with imperfections great and small
- robinia

Well said Robinia.

Well said, Robinia. Whether or not Mariella committed a faux pas in her post (and the world will surely continue to rotate on its axis in spite of it), my greater concern is what she must think of us. Surely her comments did not merit this level of negative attention. I perceive her to be an intelligent and nice person and hope she will post on this forum in the future, if she can bring herself to do so after this unfortunate occurrence. Mariella, I for one would very much like to hear from you again.

Ingrid

I think Mariella is a nice person too. She just got us all going by how she worded her post is all. I think she was having one of those days when she was feeling frustrated, and printed words can come across blunt, and then the submit was clicked on.

Sandy

"Lessons learnt: maybe don't order and plant anything you're going to forget about for the next six-nine months, and don't order anything from Chamblees."

That sounds pretty straightforward to me, she is clearly placing half of the blame on Chamblees for the failure of the plants. I agree with most of the followups here, that this is damaging to Chamblees and for the wrong reasons. Not cool.

For my sake and the sake of those of you who have been understanding and kind, I would like to say that I would really like not to add any more comments to this post, mainly because I've already said all I could think to say to explain my position and redundancy would be a total waste of all our time. I am sorry I offended many of you. Maybe over time I'll stop associating Chamblees with a bad experience and be willing to give them another try - right now I'm too busy fuming to give that possibility a lot of thought however. To those of you who cut me some slack, deserved, or not, according to the rest, thank you.

Robinia, wow, I like you. Those were two excellently written posts. Your thought process was perfect - kind, rational, gracious. Thanks, I appreciate you and what you had to say.

By way of my own personal experience, sometimes people just get gun-shy. I know Chamblees is an excellent nursery. Last spring I bought my first mail-order roses from them - R. Fortuniana, Sombreuil and Tamora. Fort is trying to grow up an oak tree as we speak, Tamora is growing in a friend's garden (couldn't tolerate no leaves, no blooms, no growth, and horrible, abundant prickles that stabbed me every time I tried to removed her BS leaves) and Sombreuil was yanked a couple of weeks ago (Jeri Jennings is thriving in his spot.) I think Sombreuil had RMV. Last June after 3 months in the ground with two 3' canes, all the leaves "marbled", dried up and fell off. One cane died; the other did nothing until late this spring. It leafed out (still only 3' tall), and it put out one cane from the base. Then about 3 weeks ago I see the marbled leaves again. It's gone.

I'm guessing that was RMV, maybe it wasn't. But my stomach just will not pull the trigger on an order from Chamblees. Maybe it's just the unpleasant association and nothing to do with Chamblees. Certainly, I like their prices and the roses were fine when they arrived. Right now, the point is moot because I'm full up with roses waiting for others to die, so I won't be ordering. (However, Foghorn's link to Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria VID from Vintage made me feel like an addict in need of a fix.)

And as for killing roses, a few weeks ago DH laid a section of newspaper on top of a potless Noella Nabonnand 2 days after she arrived and 2 days before I planned to pot her up. Friday night I went looking for her (Was she in the shipment?) cuz I hadn't seen her. Went to the table on the porch, lifted the newspaper, and there she was with crispy leaves and a moldy look. I potted her up, but I don't think she's gonna make it. The pit of my stomach is irritated with darling DH (he was just gluing up a broken patio umbrella; he didn't know there was a tiny little rose on the table) and with the nursery that sent a VERY tiny plant 2 months late. But what can you do? Like Mariella said, sometimes circumstances conspire against us. (I really, really wanted that rose - even though I didn't have room for it.)

Mariella's lead line was unfortunate. But what's done is done. We all understand the situation now. No harm no foul. A few more smiley faces in the posts would have been nice - always helpful in written communications. Hopefully, Mariella won't feel toward us the way she and I FEEL about Chamblees. What's that old song? "Feelings..."

BTW, you have a pretty name, Mariella.

Sherry

P.S. I think if I had room for more roses, I would FEEL alright about ordering from Chamblees. All this discussion has kind of purged my system. But since they've stopped shipping until September, my cure won't be put to the test for a while. Plus I'm not wishing death on any of my current roses.

I guess I'm not done posting after all. I forgot to add the following, but now they won't let me add it to the original post.
Anntn6b, thank you for the info about Eck House and Garden Museum. I had checked but couldn't find anybody locally that carried antique roses. I will definitely look them up or call to see what they carry.
And thank you also all of you who took the time to write with helpful suggestions. This includes the poster who thought I should have posed my comments in the form of a question or questions. Very appreciated, thank you.

Sorry, Gardenmariella, but you just don't get it.
You tried to discredit Chamblees because you neglected your roses. You were wrong.

You can fume away, and it will be a good thing for Chamblees. You are not looking at this business relationship in the proper perspective. Chamblees is professional, and that is what they expect of you.

Sammy

I have to say I am in agreement with Sammy. It's O.K. to make mistakes and to put one's foot in their mouth once in awhile. We all do it. What I don't think is O.K. is the modern trend of many people who make a mistake and then want to blame someone else for it, and then never admit to wrongfully doing so. It's all part of the "entitlement" complex that counselors like to toss around, and lack of responsibility for one's own actions.

I think THAT is what is irritating so many people about this post. Chamblees is like a friend to many of us, and we are sticking up for our friend, whom we feel was wrongfully blamed.Nothing wrong with that.

There, I've said it, so I guess I've made my point.

Sandy

10,000 lashes with a wet noodle. Robinia nailed it.

Chamblees has broad sholders and they have gotten good press here. I bet that if Mariella contacted them she would find out why they have such a loyal following.

I like to be abused. Of course, I am a chicken - er - rooster. DW is a TROLL. I knew JFK and believe me: Blah! Blah!

Richard comes CLOSE, but that is another story. I think I saw his picture in the book; El collar del Neandertal.

Foghorn

But the OP HAS apologized for offending Chamblee's fans. And the desire to protect Chamblee's reputation is why everyone posted... She also said that she wouldn't plant small roses in the fall again.

A long time ago (when I was a lot younger and more foolish) I ordered bands from a west coast nursery, planted them in spring, nursed them carefully and lost every one. Not only that, but I received only half my order and never got a refund of my money for the ones that weren't sent, even after repeated requests. It's now considered a reputable oufit and has a lot of boosters but there's an old saying: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I've never ordered from that outfit or recommended them and I've never ordered bands since. They just don't cut it in this climate and there is no getting around it. All the care in the world isn't enough to develop a root system that will withstand -25 temperatures. And a nursery that ships bands to zone 4 and 5 ought to know better. When I ordered a couple of not too hardy plants from RY&T, they sent me a warning before they shipped. Now that's being responsible.
Last year I purchased some large ownroot roses. This spring I have a collection of dead plants. Well, education comes expensive.
As for neglecting plants after October in this climate, what's to do? They're planted, mulched, after that it's up to old man winter.
I'm with Ruku and MG and will stick to grafted.

Fall planting is preferable where the climate is mild enough (Zone 6 and up) for multiple reasons. Most root elongation occurs in fall, resulting in instant establishment when roots are not cut at planting. Where winter survival of new plantings could be questionable heavy mulching and other if necessary covering or burying the tops can be employed.

All factors considered spring is an inferior time to plant and should only be employed when stock is not available in fall or plants are too tender to plant in fall.

Grafted plants can have enough problems that well-known late English gardener C. Lloyd used to buy grafted roses, take cuttings from them and when the cuttings were well enough on their way to be sure they were likely to live dig up the grafted mother plants and throw them away.

Mariella,
Maybe it will make you feel better to know that you have created one of the longest threads we have had in weeks.

You should have learned a few things:

1. Don't direct plant bands in the fall.

2. Don't criticize certain nurseries that everyone likes.

3. Newbies are easy targets and fall prey to piling on tactics.

4. There are some REALLY nice people here who will jump in and try to rescue you no matter how heinous your offense.

5. Rose lovers are fanatics and can get somewhat emotional.

Rose lovers are fanatics and can get somewhat emotional.

LOL, how true!

Mariella you've had a rough start but you should keep coming here anyway if you want.

At this point I'm speechless, except to reiterate that there's been enough folks on this board kind and helpful enough so I probably wouldn't have much of a problem coming back if and when I do have something else to say, (especially if it's a question). Thank you all, again.

"Lessons learnt: maybe don't order and plant anything you're going to forget about for the next six-nine months, and don't order anything from Chamblees." This statement makes NO sense to me at all.
Molly

For the love of roses, can we please, please put an end to this thread? I'm quickly coming to the point of being totally uncomfortable with what is going on here. I know, I don't have to read this thread if I don't choose to, but the very fact that it's being pursued with such tenacity that it's constantly out there is mortifying to me as a member of this forum. Can we please take the higher ground on this and go on to more worthwhile and less hurtful subjects?

Thank you.

Ingrid

Harryshoe and Ingrid-Spot on.

I totally agree with Ingrid. Many posters have been behaving as a pack of jackals or hyenas; selecting the weakest animal in the herd and going after it relentlessly. No one is going to change Mariella's mind, whether or not it was her fault. IMO it is fine to post support for a vendor; I do it all the time. It is not polite or humane to keep after anyone in this fashion. The trend this thread has taken diminishes this forum and that is most unfortunate.

Just thought I'd stop in and report what I've been up to. After years of reading this forum I know better than to say anything against any vendor and it's a pity. The quality might improve.
Of course, growing rare roses is a specialty which has to be supported by the rose community and some errors probably need to be overlooked. Growing own root roses is tricky, not only getting them to root, but getting them there alive in the mail.
Nursery X sent me roses which stood there and did nothing, until I said, "Ah, ha. They are missing the chemicals they used to receive in their old home town."
Now, all the advice here is to not fertilize bands and especially after transplanting. I got out the Schultz plant food which did nothing for about two weeks. Now, they are beginning to pop.
Rule No. One: Plants can only grow roots down to 50 degrees. Or is it 40? Does anybody know? I planted my little bands in August last year at a hundred degrees. They'd shown little growth in their pots all summer, but seemed to be relieved at being released from their bonds. Everybody made it, even Madame Isaac Perriere, which I had little hope for. She is a tiny little twig, now, but alive.
Rule No. Two: Pot up your babies and babysit them all summer. But how's a thing going to get any roots in a little pot? Especially when roses experts tell you to dig a hole 2 feet wide and 2 feet deep, and mix one third soil, one third peat moss, and one third horse manure to fill the hole? Does this sound like maybe the rose needs a fair amount of room? This year my roses are going straight in. I can see no possible improvement in the survival rate by waiting around fooling with pots.
My son did give me one idea, It takes half a day, sometimes, to pound out a rose hole with one foot of available clay topsoil and sandstone underneath. He said, "Why don't you plant the rose in a cardboard box, set it close to its final home, and slide it in, box and all, when you finally get the hole dug?" I'm going to try it.
Nursery Y sent me some roses covered with aphids. Two of the roses were so tiny that they turned gray within a week. The nursery replaced them, but not without some self righteous instructions about waiting until my last frost date. I got my roses when they decided it was time. There was a blizzard that day, but oh, well. Now, I want my roses before it gets hot and they turn to spinach in the mail. Nursery Y also believes that growing roses inside is certain death, and if I was trying to grow them in my super-insulated home, they'd be correct. But they're out there in my unheated greenhouse.
Growing.
Nursery Z and many of their friends mail off powdery mildew. I had never seen it. It infested half my roses in the yard. Took me awhile to figure out what it was. I get out the fungicide now as soon as they come out of the box. And I isolate the roses 7 miles away, in town, INSIDE A BUILDING for two weeks.
I killed two roses in pots in my unheated greenhouse this spring. They lived all winter, then budded out too soon and froze. My success rate on overwintering roses in pots is zip.
I really believe in own root roses. I have three grafted roses failing this year. They are about 12 years old. Two have made suckers. Their cold-hardiness is less and cane loss more profound. They don't grow any bigger and isn't growing something the point?
Yes, it is and that is why I'm going outside right now.

Mariella, if you really want to see some action here, just post an opinion about spraying versus not spraying roses, or organic methods versus using man made chemicals. (I'm smiling as I write this).

I look at lengthy posts as this one as a good thing in some ways. I used to be afraid that people in this country had become too comfortable and too apathetic. I was wrong. The American spirit is still very much alive and well.

That said, I do agree that we've all made our points.

Sandy

I have not ordered from Chamblees yet but I have ordered many roses from Roses Unlimited and before that Sam Kedem. I give all of my roses the same care but some survive and others die. Most mail order places and local nurseries do not have much of a guarantee. I can understand why but it still sucks. Only Home Depot and Lowes have a 1 year guarantee on their plants and I have gotten my money back on some of my purchases from them. A lot of the plants I get from mail order are weak plants, like Yves Piaget last year and A Shropshire Lad the year before, both of which died over the winter. Golden Celebration seemed to be a strong grower but it also died over the winter. I think there should be an incentive for rose growers to sell us stronger plants. As Shakespeare says, there is little choice in a bowl of rotten apples.

The reason that Home Depot and Lowe's can offer a one-year guarantee on plants is that it doesn't cost them a dime. They get their money back from the grower, and in most cases, don't pay for plants they receive until or unless they're sold.

Most growers cannot afford to offer one-year guarantees, because once the plant leaves their care, they have no control over what care they'll receive from the buyer. It's somewhat amazing to me that people expect refunds on plants they didn't take care of, and plants are not terribly expensive, but don't expect a car dealership to replace their car if they don't change the oil, etc., or a furniture store to replace their furniture if they break it when they get home.

--Ron