Both machines are nice machines - how much will you mow? A extra few inches on the deck can make a difference in mowing time. Green paint has always come at a premium but it is rare to find someone unhappy with orange. $3,300.00 is a pretty big delta. I have green but if I was to test drive both and they both felt strong and comfortable- orange would be in my garage and I would keep the green in my wallet.

I think you already answered your own question. Get the Kubota BX1500 and save yourself the $3300.

The hours on it are nothing. That is practically brand new.

There is a big difference between the two units besides HP. But that is a big difference $$ wise, so it all depends on what you need it for. Power and Hydrolics are in the JD favor - and it shows significantly in those areas
IMO

If the comparable machines were priced closer, I would consider the JD more seriously as there is a dealer about 5 minutes away. What little time I would save with the 54" VS 48" and respective loader work is negligible as I would not be using it professionally.

With all due respect to Mr. Ducati996, I cannot find your BIG differences in the two machines. We all like big HP but it seems most of the "power" needed would come from the wheels which has little to do with engine HP. According to the specifications sheet, they weigh almost the same, have similar hydraulic flow and their ability to push and pull (there is your power) is nearly identical. I would agree with you if you were regularly running heavy duty implements needing high pto HP as the JD has an advantage there as do other sub compacts compared to the 1500. That is the only "weak" point I can find. As Mr. Kubotabx2200 said, I guess I am answering my own question. I do like he JD but not for that price difference.

Incidentally, I did happen to visit a couple of dealers (Kubota & JD) this A.M. and I find the marketing and salesmanship of these machines to be brilliant and quite savvy.

oliver,

Ducatti is correct; there is a huge difference in PTO hp (17.7 vs 10.6). This manifests itself when you use a tiller, want to mow up a slope in high gear instead of low, and dozens of other ways. BTW, the gpm flow of a hydraulic pump is only one part of the equation (psi is as important).

Now that BX is certainly a nice tractor and might be just fine for your needs and wallet, but the 2210 is much more of a machine (a better comparison would be to the BX23). That $3300 would be worth every penny to me (of course I do own a 2210).

Cheers

JDFANATIC

JDfanatic:

I will submit to both Ducatti and yourself with respect to knowing the 2210 and tractors in general more than I. However, I do not see the "BIG" difference in the real world work capability of the average homeowners use of these subcompacts. I did state the weakness of the 1500's pto HP and I am sure you and many other owners could give me countless examples of where that might play a role in your use. I guess I would argue that the majority of hours used on these machines comes form mowing, loader work and pulling/pushing. Under those circumstances, using a 60"+ mower would be the only reason to have more HP. Most of the Subcompact specifications I have read and called about are nearly identical and would further submit that whether it is a BX23 (obvious need/use of a BH), a 2210 or a BX1500, the real world work capability of thses machines is negligible. The real difference is the price and the dealers and manufacturers make out just fine there.

oliver,

Since both machines are used, and mowing is your primary task, I would at least ask to test drive them on your property. I don't know about your slopes etc, but I would want to know things like does the tractor have enough power to mow in high-range vs low (the BX1500 may or may not depending on your property), and even if this turns out to be insignificant to you, at least you would know what I'm talking about. I would hate to have you bring this home and then in a few months say, it really doesn't cut as fast as I hoped.

Again, the BX may be exactly the right tractor for you, but I would want to be sure.

Cheers

JDFANATIC

No matter what advice anybody else including myself my offer you in this forum, you should never lose sight of one overriding fact: it's your money.

You should also be aware that a lot of folks opinions are clouded by whatever tractor they happen to be sitting on at the moment, so keep that in mind too.

By the way a 2210 is not comparable to a BX23, because the BX23 is a backhoe and a 2210 isn't. For apples to apples comparison, a JD 2210 is comparable to a BX2200 which I have, or the newer BX2350 which is it's replacement. The BX2200 is almost comically overpowered for a tractor that size, and I hardly ever have to use full throttle, even when mowing with a 60" MMM in high gear at full speed. So to answer your question a BX1500 matched with a 48" deck is more than adequate. If you were looking at a used BX1500 vs a BX2200, for your application, I would still tell you go for the BX1500 and pocket the difference,

The notion that you can't mow your lawn with a BX1500 in your choice of high gear or low, strikes me as a bit silly. The BX1500 was available in either a 48" or 54" mower deck, so you are actually looking at the one with the smaller of the two decks that were available. Kubota invented the subcompact tractor segment and they are not in the business to mate a tractor with a mower deck that can't cut the grass.

kubotabx2200,

I'm not going to get into an argument with you, but hp DOES make a huge difference. Here is an example: (I'll go with Deere because it is the marque I'm most familiar with) Deere makes the 2210/2305 which when equipped with a 62" deck mows my lawn (severe slopes) just fine in high-range. When I was thinking about a 2320 for the full size rear tires and backhoe capability (the Deere 260 BH for the sub-CUTs hadn't come out then, but so equipped, it IS comparable with the BX23). When I tested it on my property and found that (with the same diesel), pulling those few extra pounds and larger diameter tires, I had to mow my slopes in low-range. The speed difference was intollerable to me.

If you were taking my comments as a Kubota bash, then please reread my post again. If you were even taking it as my suggesting the 2210 over the BX, then please reread my post again. All I said was that the two tractors aren't apples and apples, and that the BX may very well be the right tractor for oliver.

Before anyone goes to purchase something costing this kind of chin-yang, I would want to be absolutely sure that it was the right choice for myself. To suggest anything else is Tom-foolery.

Cheers

JDFANATIC

Gentlemen:

This was an engaging conversation and I appreciate your input. Ultimately, all subcompacts for their respective physical size and weight and HP will do similar work. Your personal preferences (needs), the dollars you can afford to spend and what makes you happy will determine what you buy. I think the dealers and manufacturers are the BIG winners in the marketing game. They know us well and this posting is a great example.

oliver,

Let us know what you decide to get. Don't dismiss out of hand the test drive on your property.

Cheers

JDFANATIC

Oliver,

I really believe that the BX1500 is not near the match the Kubota bx2200/2350 or John Deere 2305/2210 are. You state that they will do about the same tasks, but I know for a fact they will not. Their is a reason for the price difference and that is because the machines with the added pto and regular horse power are much more versatile machines and hold their value better. Even brand new, the Bx2200/2350 sold better without discounts. It's not because the manufactures marketed them better, it's because the size of the machine worked better for the public buying them.

Now for your applicaton which you did not really state, the bx1500 maybe all you need and the $3300 that would take to get the 2210 would be wasted money. But to many the $3300 would get them the machine that they need. Say you wanted to run a 48" brush hog. Can't do it with the bx1500 but you can with the 2210. So in that application the additional money would buy the machine needed for the job.
The bx1500 is now a discontinued machine. This size machine just was not that popular and that is why you most likely see the discounted prices. Might make a great deal to you though...

JDFanatic:

I will let you know but I am still poking around. I will most certainly test drive and play a little more.

Aesanders:

Your point is well stated and as I previously mentioned the pto HP is weak on the 1500 thereby limiting its capability for operating most heavy duty pto attachments. On the other hand, I would venture a guess that the majority of BX owners finish mow, do loader work and push/pull and remove snow. At that level, there is a neligible capability difference. BUT; the salesmenship and marketing of each models specifications and the fact that the vast majority of us gravitate toward larger and more HP spawn a variety of models and associated prices to choose from with only marginal real world differences. It is marketing and knowing who you have in front of you at its best. The holding value thing is questionable as to its importance. Obviously, the more popular or in demand will hold a better perceived value but you get little back from a dealer compared to a private sale. More importantly, if these machines are engineered to run for 3000+ hours and depending on how often your circumstances change, the vast majority of us would never need to buy another one. Again, that does not happen and the brilliant marketers know this.

'On the other hand, I would venture a guess that the majority of BX owners finish mow, do loader work and push/pull and remove snow.'

I'm sure these are large usage areas, but many users use box blades and other 3 point hitch attachments regularly which are limited by the bx1500 capabilitites. I have moved to Florida from up North recently so I do not think to many of the bx's around here are used for snow pushing or blowing. They get used all the time for maintaining sand driveways and farmette lanes. The bx 2350 and Deere 2210 will outperform the bx1500 in this usage.

Also, lets look at the other areas you listed a little closer:
For mowing, the JD 2210/2305, bx 2200 and bx 2350 can all use the 60" deck. This is the most popular deck size and are great for larger areas which these machine are primarily sold for. Around me 5 acre lots are the norm. I would much rather have a 60" deck than a 48" or 54" deck for this size lot. Again the bx15oo is limited.

For loader work the bx1500 uses the la181 loader and while they are sized similarly the la243 loader is heavier duty and can outperform the la181 loader:

LA181 loader
Lift capacity (bucket center) - 400lbs.
Breakout force 770 lbs.

LA243
Lift capacity 518 lbs.
Breakout force 992 lbs.

John Deere cx200
Lift Capacity 561 lb's
breakout force 1513 lb's

That is some large difference between the 3. The John Deeres cx200 loader specs are low on the Deere sight as well. This same loader is found on larger machines and can handle a lot more than listed.

So for moving around light materials like mulch the bx1500 would be fine, but if you are getting into some heavier digging applications the LA 243 loader or cx200 will clearly outshine the LA 181 loader.

Believe me, I am not trying to knock the bx1500. It is a nice machine and maybe perfect for you, but it's performance is limiting to how many users use their subcompacts.

Oliver,
From your posts, I think you have already made up your mind and the choice is orange. No one knows your needs better than you do. If the 'bota meets those needs, then there is no justification to spend the extra green to obtain the Green. Doing so would mean that you are buying more tractor than you need so why buy a tandem axle dump truck when a single axle dump truck will do the work?

I don't own either brand and I respect both brands equally because I have run both. As such, I have no bias here. Even if the 'bota's loader is lighter than the Deere loader, you have to ask yourself as to how much loader work you intend to do and what the loader work will consist of. If all you are doing is transporting loose material, either loader will do that but one will take a few more trips to complete the task.

However, if you need the larger lifting power on a regular basis, then the choice is clear. If the large lifting power is needed for a single day each year, then go rent a skid-steer loader for a day at less than $200.00. Put the hours and the wear and tear on someone else's machine and keep the price difference in your bank account.

As for the PTO HP issue, there are implements out there that are sized to operate on either tractor. Once again, it comes down to the time factor. If the 'bota will handle a four foot rototiller but the Deere will handle a five foot one, then so what? Both will till your garden but one will do it a tad slower than the other. If that means two more passes with the 'bota and an extra 15 minutes of time, then to me it would be no big deal since I only till my garden a couple of times each year.

And depending upon the size of your property, the configuraion of your property and the obstructions on your property; you may find a slightly smaller tractor to have an edge over the slightly larger unit. And no, I haven't checked the specs but wheelbase, overall width and turning radius all come into play as well.

So far, I don't see any posts that would justify the extra money but the final decision is one that only you can make based upon what you currently perceive your needs are. I would agree that buying right the first time is the best way to go but both of these tractors have exceptional holding power value-wise. Even if you find that you need something larger a few years from now, you will get excellent service and return on your investment, regardless of the colour you choose today.

Gentlemen:

I have not made any decision on any tractor to date. I am still searching and even looking at new models.

I am simply intrigued at the salesmenship and marketing of these machines and the associated price differences within a "class" of tractors. Maybe the 1500 is not the best example to use within this class and it might have been discontinued because it did not "measure" up from a sales stand point. The same arguement can be made with any of the current BX models or the JD subcompact as to real world work capability and of course the time you want/need to spend doing the work. All these machines are designed to handle similar capacities otherwise you would move to a different class. Stating all the specification details is minutia and part of the marketing. The ultimate differences are marginal and negligible but the price differences are not. The decision has to be a personal one and I am in no way suggesting that whatever you or I choose to buy, there will be a need to defend your rationale. It has been an interesting experience to date.

I don't mean to pick nits with the numbers provided in the discussion but it is important to realize when comparing published specs that Kubota's published loader specs are from the bucket center, while Deere's are from the pivot pins. The 200cx will still outdig/outlift the LA181 on the BX1500, but the difference will be less than what the published specs imply.

IME, a task, such as moving a pile of gravel, that would take one hour with the BX1500 would probably take the same operator about 45mins on the 2210 (btw, do we know what loader the 2210 is equipped with? It can be had with the 210 and 200x as well). 15 minutes isn't a whole lot of time unless you start looking at the cumulative of those 15 minute segments over the life of the tractor. It might add up to $3300 or it might not.

Finally, is either guy firm on his number? Some horse trading might get the delta down a bit more.

oliver07 quaoted as saying:

"I am no engineer but it seems to me that the real world work capability of either machine and for that matter any sub-compact is negligible beyond the use of a BH or a 60" mower. It would seem to me that HP would have little to do with 48 or 54" finish mowing, miscellaneous loader work and pushing snow"

=========================================================

Nothing could be farther from the truth IMHO - and yet you were offered and given both valid and reasonable responses. But yet you seem to want to challenge what you heard - I know Im not going to add anymore to this thead -
However it works out for you is wonderful indeed -

Cheers!

Duc

I am considering a subcompact tractor purchase. I have two used models in my "neighborhood" in great condition. One is a JD 2210 and the other is a Kubota BX1500. I have no particular partiality toward either manufacturer as the limited research I have done to date indicates that both models will most likely outlast my needs properly maintained.
by oliver07
*****************
Hi oliver07:
A more accurate comparison would be a JD 2210 and a Kubota BX2230 as they are comparable or similar machines.
There is no tractor comparable to the BX1500 as no other manufacture makes anything like a BX1500.
The BX1500 is a lot more tractor than a garden tractor but not quite as much tractor as a Kubota BX2230,JD2210 or a Massy Ferguson 2300.
The BX 1500 fills a notch no other tractor fits in.
The advantage the BX1500 has over the others is it can get into those tighter smaller work areas and of course the lower price.
I have a Kubota BX23( Same tractor as the BX2230 except I have a BH on the BX23.)
Would I trade it for a BX1500?
No: But I need another tractor to put a Front Blade and a Rear Tiller on.
I want more tractor than a garden tractor for this but don't need as much or as big a tractor as the BX23.
The BX1500 is the only tractor out there that fills this void and it does it perfectly.
With any other tractor I would have to got to much or to little tractor.

LB,

One more time. Where are pics of ANY of your tractors. The way your last post spoke of the BX1500, an intelligent perspm could only assume you have one. So, where's the pic?

And then, let's see a pic of your BX. Or, better yet, a pic of you mowing your banks with the FEL and BH on it. If you are able to produce it, it's guaranteed to make the "kids, please don't do this at home" forum.

And then, let's see a pic of you and your wife on the CUB, making that tandem mow, and cutting that mighty 14' swath.

Or, why don't you just go back to your financial times forum with your meaningless 14,000-someodd posts.

The reputation you've carved for yourself, is such that no-one on this or any of the other tractor forums you haunt (except the obligatory newbie) even considers your posts anything more than tripe.

If you want to continue your hit and run modis operandi, digging up old posts, and disrupting genuine discussions about tractors, we'g be happy to post the CNN article you know about for all to see.

Cheers

JDFANATIC

Very well said, JDFANATIC

handyman

I am trying to find a justification for the $3300 price difference (JD higher) as they are both rated as SUB-Compacts. Posted by oliver07
****************
When I bought my BX23 I priced a BX2230 for $8100 .
The BX1500 was $6200.
That's a difference of $1900 which makes me wonder about the $3300 price spread between the BX1500 and the JD 2210.
What is the asking price for the BX1500 and the JD 2210?
Kind of hard to ascertain what's going on with or between the 2 deals without knowing that.

Kind of like a 1/2 ton vs a 3/4 ton pickup - used of course and different brands. What is the issue?

Excellent analogy Steve. And consistent with what the OP asked. He wants to know, to use your analogy, given I plan on doing X do I need a 3/4 ton or will a half ton pickup serve me fine.