If you're going to use bubblewrap find a local packaging company. Charlies charges several times what you'll pay a packaging Co. and It's the same stuff. We couldn't see any difference! The UV protection from your panels will protect the bubblewrap. Also, Charlies charges twice the price of KKontrols for plug in thermostats. Charlie wont be getting any more of our business.

Hi Greenhouser,

I've only purchased minimal "stuff" from Charley's. But I do agree that their prices are pretty high.

I bought my KKontrols thermostat from eBay (for probably Haven't checked eBay pricing on BW yet, but I thought there was a difference betw. GH BW vs "Regular" Packing Material BW.

Are they really the same? (Not arguing - just *very* curious!!!)

And what is the R-Value of BW - Or is there one?

Thx for the feedback!

-Nancy

I don't know the R value of BW. I do know we got the first roll of BW from Charlies and then looked online to compare prices. I found a local Packaging house that carried the SAME stuff Charlies was selling for a fraction of the price. My husband went and picked up a 250' roll for less than 1/2 the price of what Charlie sells in 80' rolls. These GH places that cater to GH owners are like vets who sell you an antibiotic pill for your dog for $5 and a farmer can get that same pill at the co-op for $1 and if you want that same pill for yourself the druggest with charge you $10 and yet they're all the same pills from the same Drug mfg. I suppose they figure if we can afford a GH we can afford to pay two or three time the price people can get the same stuff for elsewhere.

I've never used bubble wrap in or on my GH. I'm imagining the stuff you all use to be the same as the ordinary packaging material-correct?

I do use a MagniClear Pool Cover over my GH every winter and the biggest difference I could note between a pool cover and bubble wrap is the gauge and durability.
I take the pool cover off in the spring, roll it up into the bag it came in and bring it out every fall. It is a very heavy gauge and endures this on and off activity with no wear at all. And of course it is also standing up to our Canadian winter temps and wind as it is applied to the outside of the GH.

I would think because the pool cover is heavier gauge and the "bubbles" therefore the air space is larger and thicker, (and that is where your insulation value comes from) the pool cover provides more insulation than ordinary bubble wrap.

But certainly adding BW, especially if you can buy it for a minimal price, is going to be an improvement in insulation over having nothing at all. And it could be that in your mild climate, you would find a pool cover to be overkill anyway.

There is a photo of my GH with the pool cover on in the thread I've posted a link for....

Here is a link that might be useful: Greenhouse Photos

imqtpi, no experience here with either material (yet.) As usual I read most every old post here about solar pool covers until my eyes glazed over. I'm guessing that the solar pool covers would be a better value for the money, since they sound very durable, and do seem to perform well in cold climates. (I can't find any R value info posted anywhere comparing the two.)

However, I'm thinking that the solar pool cover might well be overkill for me here in zone 8, since my GH is in full sun. Apparently solar pool covers do increase the temperature during the day. I need to keep the heat in during the NIGHT, but not to increase it during the day. If the sun is out at all, the polycarbonate is doing a fine job of heating up the GH to the high 90's here all on it's own (not sure what you're finding out in yours, or how much full sun you get.) I still have my 40% Aluminet shadecloth up on the roof and south wall, too. My exhaust fan is set to kick on at 93°, and it often runs on and off starting at about 11AM. And this is December! Yikes!

If I use the solar pool cover, I think I'd need to figure out a way to pull it over the structure before nightfall, but slide it back during the day to avoid daytime overheating. Maybe there is a slick way to do that (I have thought about just covering the inside peak, making a false ceiling indoors) but peeling it back when the sun comes out seems like a big ordeal...especially since it sounds like it's sort of stiff and heavy.

Warning, I don't have any REAL experience with this, this is just my muddled thinking so far! :-)
Muddledhouse

wyndyacre

How do you keep an airspace between the GH and the pool cover or to keep cold air from filtering up the cover on the outside.

I don't know if this would work, but most of us have seen the arrangement that dump trucks must now use to prevent stuff from falling out on the road. I can see no reason that type of arrangement would not work for a greenhouse. The frame work could be made from PVC pipe.
Just a thought

1eyedJack and the Dawg

Thanks for all the feedback!

I ran over to the Storage Locker/"We Sell Moving Boxes" Place and bought 100' x 12" regular-ol'-packing material kinda BW. It's the stuff with the big bubbles. And it was only $20.00!

I figure that's cheap enough for an experiment!

I started putting it up on the ceiling (inside) using regular ol' packing tape - taking care not to stick the tape to the polycarbonate panels (I don't want to have to scrape THAT off!).

I like that the packing-type BW is lightweight, so it was relatively easy to put up. That's a definite "plus" over Solar Pool Covers (those suckers are heavy!)

I only got about halfway done though, b/c I need to remove some plants to be able to work in the back-half of the GH (Oooops!). I'll try to tackle that tomorrow, if it's warm enough to move the plants outside. Windy and cold today!

I'm a little nervous about the possibility of overheating the GH during the day (Thanks for the heads-up, Sheri! - Oh, and LOVE how your mosaic turned out! Awesome job!!!).

I did remove the shade-cloth this a.m. (my plumies look like they *want* to bloom, they've got un-opened buds. I think they want more light). But I'll keep an eye on the temps for the next couple-three days and see if, maybe, I should put the shade cover back on.

Today was mostly overcast, so difficult to say what the impact is gonna be...

Anyway, I'm trying yet another experiment - and I hope to see "some" improvement in the # of hours the heater runs (last night it ran >7 hours, and DH has already calculated the energy usage and converted it to $$ "for my convenience!" ;-)~~

Thanks - I'll let ya'all know if I make any earth-shattering discoveries with the latest Experiment!

-Nancy

several old threads on this subject.
Here as just a few below picture:
I have a PVC frame over my greenhouse to keep the solar cover from rubbing on the metal ends and as an air space.
The side frame is held on by wire and a screw. The top triangle piece comes off so my vents will open in the summer.
{{gwi:310030}}
This year my DH put metal grommets on all 4 sides so we could tie it on better. I don't have it on yet as it still gets 90 inside during the day and only 38 at night with 3 1500 watt space heaters, Maybe in a week or two and I will add new pictures.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/strucs/msg042121279746.html

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/strucs/msg1008245629380.html

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/strucs/msg120734489734.html

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/strucs/msg03033924900.html

Greenhouser-There is no airspace between the pool cover and the GH. It lays directly on the GH and I use long strips of wood to screw it directly to the wooden frame of the building, along the sides and the bottom edges. This prevents cold wind from blowing up between the cover and the GH and also prevents it from flapping around or worst yet, blowing away.
My pool cover is 14'x32' and about 60 lbs. It is an awkward bundle to handle alone but the two of us have developed a routine that makes it almost easy to install. It takes us under an hour now to lift it over the GH, pull into place and screw down for the winter.
It has really made a difference in the amount of heat the GH retains.

Imqtpi-sounds like the BW you found will be an ideal insulation for you or at least an inexpensive experiment.

wyndyacre

Is it like BW in that there's a dead air space between the pool cover and the GH?

imqtpi

We bought the 24" by 250' roll. But then we found out there's a 48" by 250' roll also. These would go faster putting up/installing than a 12" roll.

I have a question.
If you cover the inside, how does it vent on the occasional hot day. I'd like to provide more insulation like that, but my automatic openers could not open, also my vents. Also, did you tape it to itself or to the rails?
Could you clear this up for me?
Thanks
Dave

Greenhouser:

I would have purchased a 24" wide roll if it was readily available.

It's [Insert-Holiday-of-Choice]-Time and I am surrounded by Shopping "Mauls." I minimize my driving-around-time 'cause traffic drives me NUTS! ;-)

The storage place was just around the corner and that's what they had - so I went for it!

Since I'm only doing the ceiling of my 6x8 GH, the 12" width isn't too bad. If I had a BIG GH like some of you folks, I'd've gone for bigger BW for sure!

Dave:

I'm not using my roof vents currently. In fact, I could see openings - even with them closed - that were probably a source of heat leakage (is that even a proper term???).

Anyway, as far as venting goes: I'd replaced the little triangle piece - above the door - with a triangle of acrylic. My solar fan is mounted there and it still operates during the warm part of the day.

I suspect that's a heat-leaker, too, at night. But I think I'll leave it in place, for now (can't risk roasting my plants during the day). I'll take 'incremental improvements' for now. I'm hoping that by just covering the ceiling, that should give me a bit of relief. Our winters are pretty mild compared to some folks who post here (None of that "White Stuff" here in San Jose!)

Also, I taped the BW to the aluminum frame and to itself. Since it's only 12" wide, and the panels are 24" wide, I've got two 'runs' of BW stuck together in the middle, and then the 'outside' is taped to the aluminum frame. If that makes sense.

I'll try to post pics (but the tape is clear so it'll be difficult to 'see!')

HTH

-Nancy

pushindirt.

Tape the bubble to the vents, not the GH frame around them and they should open, but make sure you set the openers at a much higher temp than you would for summer, or your precious heat could get sent out to the great beyond when you don't want it to.

If the weight of the bubble seems to inhibit the opener, you might be better off not using it on the vents. The thin shrinkable film sold for windows would do pretty much the same job for literally no weight at all, although mounting it could be a real chore. But it would still give you the air pocket that's the real insulator, with no loss of light.

Sealing up a GH like a tomb for winter keeps it warmer, but yes, there could be times when you want to vent and for that, the other option is to just crack the door open until it's cooled down.

This is my first winter really using my GH and we are still experimenting. If sealing up all of the roof vents proves a problem, we will mount the film on, and cut out the pool cover over at least one of them. There are 4, but just one opening in winter to vent excess heat would be enough.

Meanwhile, there is always the door.

Okay, I took photos but I doubt they're very useful!

It's very difficult to take good pictures in such a small space (Read: I'm jealous of your Big GH's! But probably not so jealous about your heating bills!)

Here's a shot looking fwd. You can see my Solar Fan on the front of the GH.

You can also kinda see the tape up along the peak. I can barely make-out the tape that runs in the middle the 2 lengths of 12" BW on the left-hand side.

Oh, and before anyone admonishes me about my shop-light and water: I have a large plastic cover for it (covers the entire top of the unit, and then some!). I had to take the cover off, for now, since I'm still sticking the BW up on the ceiling. It'll go back in place, when I'm done.

{{gwi:310032}}

wyndyacre

OK now I understand. I didn't realize the pool covers had those air pockets or bubbles. :)

I guess I didn't understand that you basically cut it to fit in the panels. I thought it was a complete cover that you had to cut out holes for vents, heater, etc.
Thanks for clearing that up.

pushindirt:

If you are referring to the bubble, if you buy it in 2 ft. widths, it should fit between the aluminum polybars on most standard aluminum & polycarb GH's. If you cut a piece the size of the polycarb panel on all or just one of your roof vents, it should allow the vent(s) to operate. If not, the heat shrink film would certainly not overweigh them.

You could also cut out only the bottom and sides of a pool cover where it covers the vents, as many people do with sunshades. Double faced tape or velcro might work to hold the cover onto the vent sash, to prevent it from blowing back, leaving the vent uncovered when you don't want it to be.

Solar pool covers are far heavier than any bubble wrap and also have bubbles, but much smaller. However, in larger sizes, they can be quite heavy and as another poster noted, getting a large one up can be a real challenge.

Our's was so heavy, we cut it into two sections and overlapped them on the top of the GH. The wind took one off shortly after we put them on last month, which fortunately taught us a lesson before it became too cold to work outdoors. I bought some nylon webbing and tied it to some bungee cords that are connected at the base on either side of the GH. It goes over the top and holds the overlapped covers down securely, yet gives just enough as to not put undue pressure on the polycarb.

We also used a strong braided nylon rope to wrap around the GH from one side of the door and around, to the other. It's holding the cover tightly against the kneewall and has proved a far better solution than laying bricks and timbers along the bottom as we did last year.

We learn as we go.

pushindirt

I didn't cut my BW to fit the panels. I ran it horizontally row by row overlapping the row below.

This will give you an idea:

{{gwi:308753}}

you can purchase bubble wrap to make a pool cover and anchor it to ground cheeap enough