I have no idea if it's a different cultivar, or if perhaps it's a virus-indexed clone from Florida via Malcolm Manners. I noticed the other day that they also have 'Reine des Violettes' and 'Reine des Violettes from Florida' listed. Both the "from Florida" roses don't appear in their respective "search by class" pages, but can be found when looking through their alphabetical list or by searching by name. I was thinking of calling them and asking, but I kept forgetting until late at night.

:-/

~Christopher

I hadn't noticed the "Reine des Violettes" duplicates...interesting. I'd be curious of the background of the "From Florida" duplicates. Maybe its similar to the "RdV" they carry at Hierloom or something, hmmm.

Tammy

I don't know where RVR got their "from Florida" roses, but I don't think it was from me.

Here, "Cracker Rose" or "Florida Cracker Rose" (never, ever called Cracker Red here) is always 'Louis Philippe' as grown throughout the Southeast and Texas. This identity is the reverse of the West Coast, where this rose is often called 'Cramoisi Superieur' and the rose we call C.S. is called L.P. Our Cracker Rose is consistently taller than wide, has more white in the center of the flower, and tends to have the less perfectly symmetrical flower of the two. Our C.S. (same as Bermuda's "Agrippina") tends to be a wider-than-tall bush, with flowers that can be entirely red and can be quite beautifully imbricate, although not always -- both can make a flower that looks almost exactly like that of the other plant.

As mentioned on a different thread, our (FSC's) 'Reine des Violettes' is the one virtually everyone agrees is the "real" one, having come to us from Roses of Yesterday and Today in the early 1980s, and we heat-treated it for mosaic and have distributed it ever since. It's strongly upright, nearly (but not entirely) thornless, and makes strongly bluish-gray to purple flowers.

Why don't you call/email RVR and ask them?

Thanks Dr. Manners. I think found roses are so interesting! I had sent some cuttings of my Louis Philippe to someone living in Florida a couple of weeks ago, and that person happened to get some cuttings of Louis Philippe at a local cutting exchange as well. She said the two specimins looked completely different. The leaves on my rose were small and red, while the leaves on the cuttings she received locally were larger and shiney green. She was going to hopefully get them both rooted, and report back to me once they bloomed.

There is also a rose in commerce call "Pink Cracker Rose," is there a tentative identity on this one? I think Rose Petals Nursery sells it.

Tammy

Here is a link that might be useful: Pink Cracker Rose on HMF

Pink Cracker Rose is something John Starnes found in Tampa, and he says it's common in that neighborhood, but seems completely unknown anywhere else, and is not associated with the "Cracker" name anywhere else. I've wondered if it may be 'Napoleon', but have not been able to compare them.

About that Pink Cracker rose that might be Napoleon- the history of Tallahassee suggests very strongly that it might be Napoleon, as that area was first settled by the French, and the rose Napoleon was introduced by a French rose breeder.

I have a rose that is probably Pink Cracker. It is care-free, almost always in bloom, no hips, and takes from cuttings very easily. On superficial examination of a couple of photos on the web, my rose bears a strong resemblance to Napoleon.

Tammy, if you are referring to the 'Cracker Red' that Rose Petals Nursery has, check out the RPN website. RPN's Cracker Red is a found rose, most likely a China but not Louis Philippe. Their 'Cracker Pink' is definitely not the rose in your link nor does it resemble Napoleon. I have RPN's Cracker Pink. The bloom is a pompom style flower similar to White Pet but larger, carried in large clusters.

Back to Cracker Red, there are lots of found red Chinas around and only one Louis Philippe. Malcolm's comment about thw west coast and east coast reversng LP and CS is very interesting. To me LP is quite distinct in looks and fragrance. RPN's photo does not resemble LP.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Thanks Sherry! I was thinking of both Rose Petals and Angel Gardens in reference to the red Cracker Rose. I havent had a chance to ask Pam about hers. I noticed RPNs pink cracker looked different than the HMF one. thats what I love about found roses...just so much mystery! it's like a puzzle to try and solve!

I wonder since my LP came from the west coast if its actually CS? I don't frow CS so I have nothing to compare it to first hand. ill trt to post pics once my LP blooms.

tammy

To Sherry- John Starnes is calling a much different rose Cracker Pink than RPN's Cracker pink. Starnes CP looks like Napoleon. I have both roses, and you are right, they are nothing alike and could never be mistaken for each other.

Starnes description: http://johnstarnesloveofroses.blogspot.com/2010/02/floridas-mystery-pink-cracker-rose.html

Could RPN's Cracker Pink be Pink Pet (Caldwells' pink)?

I obtained my (red) Cracker, pink Cracker and Caldwell's(?) here in Florida, as pass-along roses from neighbors.

Avalon, I just came to that conclusion myself - that RPN's Cracker Pink is very much like Caldwell Pink/Pink Pet. I hadn't grown that rose so didn't know to check it, but it hit me this morning to question what else it could be. Hopefully, it doesn't get any bigger than White Pet because I have it in a pot. It's been putting on growth that doesn't look like it wants to be a mini which is what I was expecting.

Tammy, haven't seen Pam's website so can't compare. My LP is very pinkish in the middle. Others say white in the middle which may be semantics. The mix of white and red looks pink to me. Florida's LP looks nothing like FL's CS to me which is very globular and dark with an occasional red streak - I believe. For some reason I was not successful in growing it - climber or bush. They both balled really badly throughout the year. Very disappointing.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sherry, my Caldwell has never gotten over 2.5-3 feet tall, and responds very well to being trimmed at the top- bushes out, reblooms nicely. It does ball in wet weather here, which is something it never did when I lived in the Miami area.

Sorry your LP didn't do well- mine is a real joy- the scent is heavenly!

No, no, LP is wonderful. It was CS that was a bomb.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

"Pink Cracker Rose" was very common in older Tampa neighborhoods like Hyde Park and Seminole Heights up until the 80s, when gentrification wiped out so many old homes. My plant here in south Tampa dates to 2000...down the road from me is a hedge of it on Himes Avenue, and on Davis Island there is a huge hedge of it by a hotel that has thrived for decades. PCR very rarely sets hips...I've seen maybe a dozen in all these years. Can be trained as a 10 foot pillar or kept as a 5 foot shrub. VERY remontant, laughs at disease and nematodes...when I showed one to Joyce Demits some years back her reaction was immediate....'Burbank', which has been my best guess for years. In the 80s I learned it was sold by Holmes Nursery for Mother's Day in 1933. Roots easily and that is how it became an iconic feature of Florida landscapes. Check out my page for it at HMF.