I'm sorry... the article said that the shutdown is caused by drop in sales, not the need to re-tool. Did I miss something?... to install an aftermarket cat., would take zero effort on the assembly line - in fact it could be built into the muffler anyway - and briggs doesn't make their own mufflers... so I don't see the connection to EPA.

Having said all that, the EPA is causing more pollution by smoking pot, if in fact they say that lawnmowers spew out nearly 50% of the pollution. That's the biggest pile of horsecrap I have ever heard. I think they are off by about 2 orders of magnitude.

"I'm sorry... the article said that the shutdown is caused by drop in sales..."

Butter it any way you wish to make yourself feel better. But I will continue to tell it the way it is.

Briggs & Stratton officials have said that redesigning their engines to comply with tougher regulations would be so costly they might have to move production overseas. The company employs more than 1,000 workers in Missouri.

Like about all US companies that will not spend the money to upgrade their factories or improve their product for fear that the CEO's will have to give up $10 or $15 dollars of their yearly income. They decided it best to just shut the doors and put 450 or so people out of work.

I think that is what I meant. US companies would rather shut a plant down putting Americans out of work than invest a little money into improving their product for fear that the CEO's will have to give up a few dollars of their salary..

Yea that was what I said and have been for years.

=======================================================

According to a CNN report, in a single day Southern California's lawn tools spew out more pollution than all the aircraft in the Los Angeles area. A single gas powered mower puts out more poison than 73 new cars. And according to sources cited by the EPA, one gas powered lawn mower pollutes as much in one hour as does an automobile driven for 350 miles. That is serious air pollution.

Here is a link that might be useful: Yea that's it..

sorry, but i just don't buy that they put out THAT much pollution. sure, any internal combustion enginge puts out emissions. but a small one like that cannot put out as much in an hour as a larger enginge does in 5-6 hours. the math does not add up either. if a single mower puts out 73 times more pollution, why would it only pollute as much in an hour as a single car driven 350 miles? to make that math work the car would have to be driven 5110 miles assuming 70 mph. which would mean that the car would burn over 200 gallons of gas, compared to maybe 3/4 gallon for the mower. no way in heck does a cat convertor stop THAT much pollution.

ANYTHING i read that includes both Southern California and emissions studies i take with a grain of salt.

It always seems to be Briggs and Stratton crying the blues. I wonder why they can't compete unless they are given special breaks. Lousy management?

Well,Im not up on Briggs and Stratton. Do they have other plants and are they closing them as well or just the one plant? I feel for the employees. We just had a GM plant close here and right before that we had a regional State Farm operation shut down. It hurts our small community.
But Im curious if they have other plants or are they leaving the country maybe??
I am also curious how the other companies like Kohler are doing sales wise.
I dont know how it is in the rest of the country but here,locally, it seems more people are paying to have their lawns mowed. Heck you cant drive down the road without seeing numerous trucks pulling a trailer with yard equipment. Just wondering how this effects the industry.
Well, I must be an odd ball cause I dont mind caring for my own yard. Heck, I look forward to cranking up the Deere and riding it.
John

Well, most of the replacement parts for my Briggs engines are made overseas already. Its true, instead of keeping it all USA made, theyd rather have some overseas company build it for a quarter the price, ship it here, jack the heck out of the price and roll in the dough. Heck all major auto manufactures have done it ( my truck has a japenese engine and trans and built in Canada), and y see how much they jack prices every year. Im really not sure how much emssions are put out by an average lawntractor - with proper maintenece, they shouldnt put out even an 1/8 as much as a car, Meybe the initial start up with the choke would increase it a bit, but id say not overall. Thats why they discontinued the flathead series motors because of emissions , so ive herd. Well i have 3 running flathead twins and im not about to junk em, as all of my motors are pre year 2000 ( I own 15 tractors) and they only puff a bit of smoke at startup, which is normal, from being run rich with the choke on. Ive tweeked my motors to run a bit more effiecent by adjusting the fuel/air needle valves, instead of at stock settings.
It'd be sad to see Briggs close or send operations over seas, because its a decent engine, being reliable and long running ( a few of my engines are well over 20 years old and still going- w/o ever cracking the block open for a rebuild)and hate to see the quality go away.
Kidd

I don't think Briggs will fold, they will just import from china like all the rest and there will be a way to get around it beings it's not made or have comply with US standards. Just like the Pet food industry.

One job that's going to be in demand Trucking and delivery from port of entries.

If you really want to tell it the way it is, then try quoting actual articles instead of making up your own versions. For sure, this thread is totally about pollution but 100 percent of it is coming from the OP.

In the first article hippy points to, there isn't a single mention of catalytic convertors, emission standards, new laws or pollution contribution by OPE.

I am so tired of environmental alarmists. One day it is the freaking car I drive, now it is my freaking lawnmower. I know this isn't a political forum, but give me a freaking break already.

"In the first article hippy points to, there isn't a single mention of catalytic convertors, emission standards, new laws or pollution contribution by OPE."

Canguy
You are right. There aren't. I thought that most people would at least be curios and/or interested enough to do some research on the subject for themselves.
======================================

Small Nonroad Engines

We are proposing HC+NOx exhaust emission standards of 10 g/kW-hr for Class I engines starting in the 2012 model year and 8 g/kW-hr for Class II engines starting in the 2011 model year. We expect manufacturers to meet these standards by improving engine combustion and adding catalysts. These standards are consistent with the requirements recently adopted by the California Air Resources Board (ARB). We are not proposing new exhaust emission standards for handheld emissions.

For spark-ignition engines used in marine generators, we are proposing a more stringent Phase 3 CO emission standard of 5 g/kW-hr. This would apply equally to all sizes of engines subject to the Small SI standards.

We are proposing new evaporative emission standards for both handheld and nonhandheld equipment. The new standards include requirements to control fuel tank permeation, fuel line permeation, and diffusion emissions. For nonhandheld engines we are also proposing to require control of running losses.

When fully implemented, the proposed standards would result in a 35 percent reduction in HC+NOx emissions from new engines exhaust. The proposed standards would result in a 45 percent reduction in evaporative emissions.

==============================================

California killed the two stroke engines a few years ago.
Why can't I buy a new Yamaha Banshee or a good Dura Force powered Lawnboy here in West Virginia?

Why? CA does not like two stroke engines and the rest of the US followed.

Now they have started on the 4 stroke mowers. Most of the new LawnBoy push mowers can not be sold in CA already. They do not meet CA's EPA standards. How long will it take for the rest of the US to follow?

Briggs has already started talking shutting the doors on their operations here in the US. Why.. I have already covered that I believe..
========================

Those in the logging and timber business. Watch out. Hippy has warned you..

For Sheryl Crow's master plan to save a few trees is to Wipe your arse less.

Her words not mine..

"And here's the upshot of that contemplation: "I propose a limitation be put on how many sqares of toilet paper can be used in any one sitting. Now, I don't want to rob any law-abiding American of his or her God-given rights.."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/23/crow_masterplan/

Briggs is the largest small engine mfg, so they probably cry the loudest when things like this are proposed. Adding $50 to a push mower or $200 to a riding tractor engine IS a big deal. It's not so much an issue of going overseas as it is total reduction in sales. People may just decide they don't want to own a mower and have a pro cut it. Certainly the pro needs and engine, but one engine cutting 10 lawns is a lot differnt than 10 engines on ten lawns. Of course, maybe that's the EPA's hope...

I must be missing something here. If Briggs goes offshore with production, how does that make it so they don't have to meet epa rules or redesign their engines. If they are going to sell them here, they have to meet the rules, regardless of where they are built. A lot of Europe already requires catalysts, so the designs are probably already done by all the major engine makers.

This sounds like either Briggs whining for sympathy and trying to get the criticism for them going offshore moved to the EPA, or the article writers just have a grudge against the EPA and regulations. Going offshore is most likely due to costs, and possibly some EPA rules for FACTORY emissions, but not because of design and emission rules for the engines.

Clean burning cars with catalysts, put out very little emissions, and air cooled engines put out a lot, so the numbers quoted may be right, but still sound a little high, and should be independantly confirmed before getting too excited.

But briggs has has the $$$ to buy simplicity and generac They are always buying

Engine tech
You stated
"but one engine cutting 10 lawns is a lot differnt than 10 engines on ten lawns, maybe that's the EPA's hope"

That is something that I thought of also. But then I got thinking.

What would be the difference in one engine running for say 10 hours to cut 10 lawns than it would be for 10 engines running one hour to cut the same ten lawns?

You know who will come out on top when the dust settles. It will be the Japanese companies that are more than willing to spend money on research, design and updating factories. They will adapt to the changes and prosper. While the Americans will be left behind and the average Joe without jobs due to corporate greed by the ones hired to run these companies.

It has been happening for years.
Americans yell. "Gotta cut cost, improve profits".
While the Japanese spend money on developing better products today to be used tomarrow staying a step ahead of the game.

Makes me wonder why the US colleges even offer Engineering and Science courses. Unless they get a job with the defense department they just wasted their time on getting a degree. For they can design and build a missile that will fly 3000 miles, Knock on a door and make sure that they are at the correct address before going off. Yet they can not come up with a simple lawn mower engine that produces less pollution.

Maybe Junior Johnson said it best.
The answer to cleaning up the air is cooked up a hollow down the road from here And has been for the past 75 years.
A little surplus corn, A little surplus sugar...

This small plant is a drop in the bucket for Briggs and Stratton. They already produce off shore. The Vanguard engines are made in Japan. Has been for years.

This is not that big a deal for Briggs and Stratton.

Let's see if I have this right. Briggs decides to cut back on the number of it's employees due to a drop in engine sales and suddenly (according to Hippy) it's really about corporate greed and the Japanese being one step ahead of the US when it comes to engine design.

And when those two unfounded opinions are not based on any facts spoken to in the article that spurred Hippy to start this thread, he then tosses in a quote from that marginally talented skank Cheryl Crow (as if anyone really gives a crap what that self-professed druggy has to say about anything) and another alleged quote from Junior Johnson regarding ethanol saving us from air pollution.

In regards to the JJ comment, the experts have already voiced their concerns regarding increased use of corn for bio-fuel. Right now, the demand for corn has out-stripped the so-called "surplus" Hippy has referred to. And that demand is already affecting the price of corn for all of the traditional uses, thus driving up the prices of a wide-range of consumer products, including meat.

Right now, farmers are attempting to meet the demand by planting more corn. Who can blame them? They are in business to make money and if corn prices are high, then it's only natural that they would want to get a piece of that action. However, there is always a downside. When farmers rush to grow more corn, they invariably stop growing other types of grains and produce. If the drop in production of those items drops well below the demand for them, then the prices will suddenly spike due to demand outstripping the supply.

Ironically, all of this demand for corn has created a need for more corn seed and the "evil" Monsanto people who are embroiled in the GMO controversy are now at war with Dupont over market share.
http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/2007/01/high-demand-for-gm-corn-in-usa.html

This is a huge set-back for those who are totally against genetically modified foods dominating the fields of the world. If everyone grows the same variety of corn and an incurable blight (can you say "potato famine") suddenly appears, imagine what would happen to the world economy if all the corn suddenly died once year?

Once again, food prices will increase, all due to an attempt to find an alternative energy source that is "made in the USA". And it's not just corn prices that are increasing, either. Demand for sugarcane in ethanol production has caused the price of sugar to jump dramatically and that tranalates into increased food prices across the board. Sugar is in the list of ingredients of a huge number of products on the grocery shelf.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/5/10/135951/485

Fortunately, there are those who realize that corn and sugar production are not the answer and are looking at new methods of producing bio-fuels.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/18476/

The whole point of what I just posted is to demonstrate FACTUALLY that the decision by Briggs to close one plant isn't as simplistic as Hippy thinks it is. We live in a global economy. What happens in one part of the world has a huge ripple effect elsewhere. Copper prices have soared as a direct result of China's demand for this metal. And who helped create that demand???????? We did because we rushed out and bought low-cost Chinese-made items that contained copper, such as power tools.

And you can throw global-warming into the mix here along with smog, air pollution and increased medical costs due to both of these items affecting the health of citizens.

To top it all off, there is a theory floating around that cell--phones are the very reason why honey bees are dying at an unprecedented rate. And if they don't figure that one out soon, then how will crop pollenation take place? Once again, food prices will jump dramatically as demand outstrips supply and cost of production also rises due to some sort of artificial pollenation method.

Now, you guys can all post ways to solve these problems while I go for some fresh popcorn and another brewski.

Castoff said,
"Once again, food prices will increase, all due to an attempt to find an alternative energy source that is "made in the USA". And it's not just corn prices that are increasing, either. Demand for sugarcane in ethanol production has caused the price of sugar to jump dramatically and that tranalates into increased food prices across the board. Sugar is in the list of ingredients of a huge number of products on the grocery shelf."

Ever hear of the farm program? Sugar prices have been propped up for decades by politicians, making a few ex Cubans rich beyond belief! I don't agree growing more corn
hurts every other farm price. What about the millions of acres in the soil bank...landowners are paid to not plant
anything to try to support crop prices. I say let them plant
up fence to fence.

As usual, any political debate just degrades into amusing crap....

anyway - the reason Briggs wants to save money (by moving to china) is because of you... yes you.... each of you people, who own any form of investment, YOU want your investment pile to grow. In order to accomodate wall-street, Briggs mgmt. has to do something to make their stock worth while... since they don't pay dividends, all they can hope is to increase share price. How do you do that?... when everything under the sun as been done?... the only thing left to cut costs (therefore make the company more profitable) is buy some cheap labour. and so here we are. Everything else - all those reasons (emissions etc) is just smoke & mirrors...

As for pollution - lawnmowers in LA spewing out more than airplanes?... that's the biggest pile of horsecrap I have ever heard.

Enviro-quacks (and I don't mean "true environmentalists" - who are scientists) - I mean the quacks who are jockeying for free $$ from the gov't to do another "study" are just wasting everyones' time. And we, namely 95-98% of us, are so gullible we just take it all in.

Here is a statistic: rotting leaves in the forest spew out more CO2 than all of humanity multiplied by approximately 10. go figure.
My suggestion: ride around your forest, sucking up all the leaves, which we can then compress into organic bricks, and fire them off into space (using the trusty old hydrogen powered space-shuttle engines), to rid our planet of all that carbon..... I mean after all, without carbon, you can't have carbon dioxide right?... and apparently that's a good thing.... so after a few hundred years, we'll clear the earth of all the carbon, we'll never have to worry about it again.

The only way i could see a small lawntractor motor cause any enviromental issues is from a lack of maintenece- those ones abused and smoke like the dickens, that use more oil then y can keep in the darn thing. The average tractor probably had less to do with it than vehicles do. Todays market is totally based on next years sales, make it cheep, so they'll buy next years model, if we build it good, theyll never come back. I dont think thats the truth. If someone builds a quality product, peeple WILL come back and buy it again eventually. If they build crap, they wont, no matter how new and advanced it is. Personally i dont know if id buy a new Briggs engined tractor today, with them being darn near close to the price of a decent car, the ironic thing is if the motor goes- that replacement motor is NEARLY the cost of the original tractor! A $4000 tractor and the replacement motor costs $2500- almost makes sense to junk it and get a new one for its cost. Thats probably why noone bothers to rebuild/fix old tractors - too much like work. I actually prefer to buy old tractors and fix them- its a hell of a lot cheeper to rebuild an old tractor than to buy new and probably have better results as well and definitly last longer then new. And the older motors can last alot longer then anything new made today.
Kidd

Hippy said, (I bet you actually hated hippies),
"US companies would rather shut a plant down putting Americans out of work than invest a little money into improving their product for fear that the CEO's will have to give up a few dollars of their salary.."

Unions have a way of twisting their loyal members into parroting their "above all, hate the management" propaganda.
I think Hippy demonstrates this. He thinks management will make more by starving all the loyal dues payers. It just doesn't work that way.

Sales are falling. Briggs has plants in Georgia, Alabama and
Kentucky. They are not closing those plants. Why was the Missouri plant selected? I have no clue, but there is a reason.