I'm glad that Setzer Noisette might work, Jeri. hoovb- It's about a mile and a quarter inland from the beach. Besides a jackmanii in relatively sunny conditions that does well, all recent attempts at Clematis in full sun just haven't gone well there. Henryi (One of the few cultivar names I can recall) was on the verge of death till I finally moved it to a shady spot. Perhaps our care has been less perfect and the sample size is fairly small, but I'm somewhat hesitant to plant a Clematis in a spot in the front yard if it's going to perform as other Clems have in similar conditions. She actually already grows a few of the recent suggestions elsewhere (Reine des Violettes, Cornelia, and Night Owl). As for Pax, we're both big fans of the Hybrid Musks. Penelope, Prosperity, and possibly Pax would all offer lovely light tones, but of those three I have only seen Prosperity grown in a way that might work. Penelope strikes me as more of a shrubby rose and Pax as perhaps too much rose. Though more apricot, Nymphenburg is intriguing. It doesn't seem to be a widely grown rose so I don't expect much feedback on it. I have mostly seen it as a shrub, but it's grown as a pillar rose at the Huntington so perhaps it could be applied to an obelisk. It is quite pretty. I've previously thought about getting it for myself, but seeing it at the Huntington made me reconsider. Perhaps this is a good opportunity for vicarious gardening. Jay

I think you'll enjoy her, monsoon99. I don't know anywhere you can walk in and buy a canned plant of her anymore. I have begged a few locals to include her in their mixes, even promising to promote them as sources, but so far, no takers. I wish I had the abiltiy... You should be able to purchase her on line from Burlington, Rogue Valley and Vintage. They will all be small plants which can be encouraged to grow more rapidly if planted in a can to keep the roots warm. GHat is excellent own root. The Ventura County Rose Society Auction should be in spring and they often have plants of her included. If you are of the "immediate gratification" mentality (NOT a judgement, simply a suggestion), you CAN plant more than one, but I personally wouldn't as it is NOT needed. One will easily cover the area you've stated and won't out grow it, where two very likely will and possibly give you too dense a plant, allowing for greater potential for disease issues. Grandmother's Hat is very healthy, but CAN black spot under the right conditions. ANY rose can have health issues under the right conditions. Some are just more prone to it than others. This one is a survivor! Which Laguna are you asking about? There are three on HMF and I haven't grown any of them. Don Juan you should be able to find most nurseries and garden centers (NOT "home improvement stores") that sell canned roses. It can be a little slow getting started, but that is a characteristic of large flowered climbers which flower heavily. A plant can usually bloom or grow. Few do both as well all the time. There will be equivalent roots to balance long canes and the plant is going to grow those before it puts out the wood. Finding one already started in a can, preferably from last year or earlier, will allow you more immediate gratification. Dortmund...well, it can be a very good rose. It's excellent for harsh, arctic type climates. I have one at a client's house in Old Orchard, Valencia. She loves it. It is VIGOROUS, terribly prickly, glossy, dark green foliage and it will mildew on the peduncles and prickles in these climates. It flowers reliably and needs deadheading to force repeat flowering faster. It will repeat without it, but it isn't as "tidy", so that will depend upon your taste and how OCD you are about maintenance. My client loves it for two reasons, it was a plant installed in the garden by a very loved friend who designed it in the first place and who has sinced passed away, and it reminds her of Bougainvillea, which is not sufficiently cold hardy there. I frequently hack large hunks of it off to keep it on her wall, cut out large clusters of spent flowers and hips and at least once a month, have to hose it out to remove all the debris and spider webs it collects. I appreciate it for the accomplishment it is in breeding. I do find the foliage attractive, sort of like plastic holly; it does impress me with the quantity and reliability of bloom for such a cold hardy rose being grown in a warmer climate. I agree it is a suitable replacement for a Bougainvillea where bougies won't grow, or are 'iffy'. Do I want one in my garden? Um, no. Would I use it for breeding? Perhaps. It's more a personal taste issue. Is it a good rose? In many ways, yes, very. It keeps the neighbors on their side of the wall and covers twenty feet of unattractive concrete block. It does what it is supposed to and makes its owner happy. It makes me happy to be able to keep it looking good to keep her smiling. Dortmund should be fairly readily available canned. Again, a more developed one will provide more immediate gratification. A repeat blooming Cl. Mlle. Cecile Brunner...probably your best bet is going to be buying one on line from a source which states theirs is from the reliable repeater. An easier way would likely be to buy a Spray Cecile Brunner. It's a more vigorous bush form which flowers continually and produces wood more elongated than the original seedling, yet not as over powering as the "climber". There is a range of traits a climbing sport can express. Observing a large block of Iceberg will illustrate that perfectly. You'll find anything from more dwarf, very lightly prickled to nearly prickle free all the way to seven foot "bushes" with large, sharply hooked prickles. It isn't an either-or, but a continuum. Where the genes of the bud used to create that particular plant fell on that continuum determines what that particular plant is going to express. Climate and culture will massage that expression greatly. Mlle Cecile Brunner is one of the most bullet proof plants of any kind you can grow in Southern California. The more vigorous types tolerate heavier pruning better than the "dwarf" bush. Once established, it is rudely healthy; continuous flowering (unless you have the spring bloom climbing sport); extremely shade "tolerant" in this climate; a very "long suffering" plant which will often out last the gardeners and gardens in which it is planted. I love that it was named for the 8 year old daughter of Pernet's major competitor. In the early 80s, there was a lovely lady from the Riverside area who volunteered in the herb garden at the Huntington, and who had her mother's climbing Cecile. She made rose petal jelly from it. It was DELICIOUS! In our climate, you can plant Mutabilis, the Banksias and Cecile and they will just GROW! They're seldom afflicted by any pests or diseases and will out grow anything thrown at them. If you want something very similar in a slightly different color, take a look at Perle d'Or, often called yellow or apricot Cecile Brunner. It isn't available as a climber, but it is as gorgeous and wonderful as Cecile. If it helps, Grandmother's Hat, Perle d'Or and all forms of Cecile Brunner are frequently found in old gardens and cemeteries where they've been forgotten and just allowed to do their own thing. THAT is MY kind of rose! Kim

I grow some ramblers in my garden. The truth is that some of them like Rosa 'Guirlande d'Amour' have grown very well in a short time. I bought it in early 2014 and this spring of 2016 was like this. I think it looks nice. This is the link to the post where I asked for opinions on the eight ramblers I have ordered. Experiences cultivation in zone 8/9 of these 8 roses ramblers I decided to order these eight ramblers not only by bloom. The flowering in the rose bushes interests me. Of course. But of roses I do not just like their flowers. The colorations that the roses acquire in autumn excites me. In addition, a large rambler provides shelter and food for insects and garden birds. The rose hips lengthen the time of interest of a rose bush. I think in the fall some roses are as beautiful or more than in spring. I mean with all this that, although I know that in climates with more atmospheric humidity than the one in my garden, I hope they are not impossible to cultivate in mine. The style of my garden is not modern. I really like the little classics. Have a look a little country. Maybe that's why I think these ramblers can fit very well in the style of my garden. I do not know, maybe I'm wrong !!

I've considered planting more than one rose per side on arbors, because of my zone, but when I see the roses growing on arbors at Northland, same zone, but with more wind because they're located on a high prairie, and see how completely covered their arbors are with only one rose per side, I back down and don't do it. It also depends on the rose. I planted a tiny, and I mean tiny, band of Peggy Martin on my widest, tallest arbor last fall. It is halfway to the top and spreading out to cover the picket fence the arbor is attached to, in 1 year's time. In this case, one was more than enough. I also have an old rambler, one plant, that is eating both side of an arbor. So, it's impossible to make hard and fast plans. I like to plant a clematis with climbers, so there's that, too. I plant my garden roses close enough that they can mingle. I love the look. If they don't grow to expectations, I plant perennials between them, but I try to also leave enough space to step inside the beds for deadheading and pruning. I will add that it's dry here and fungal diseases are rare.