jtmoney_gw

Are lungworts spreading/invasive or clumping?

jtmoney
12 years ago

Hi,

I was at a hardware store today where they had some of the above plants out (in full sun I might add :( ) and I was wondering about them.

I wanted to plant a couple amongst August Moon Hostas and Palace Purple coral bells. All of these plants are under a Redmond Linden which allows approx. zero sunlight in.

According to the tag it is a 'moderate' grower that spreads to about 20 inches, but stays in a mounded form (like hostas). But online, it appears that it may be a spreading ground cover. Which is correct? Do you all like this cultivar? I also really liked the Victorian Brooch variety, but it wanted partial sun and I don't know if my site qualifies...

How does this stuff grow, anyhow?

Comments (38)

  • darlene87
    12 years ago

    I have had two for over 10 years. I still have two! They have not spread at all, just stay put. Not like the lily of the valley, which I keep pulling up every yr., and find more the next. I am very happy with my lungworts.
    Darlene

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    12 years ago

    All of the lungworts I'm familiar with--and I have grown over 10 different ones at various times--are clumping, except for the old fashioned one with the spotted leaves (but by far the most beautiful flowers), which slowly spreads--never aggressive.

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  • coolplantsguy
    12 years ago

    My Pulmonaria would spread a little by self-sowing, but only very moderately.

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    12 years ago

    I wish I had good luck with these, as I very much like the foliage, but mine always turned into a mildewy mess. I finally gave up.

  • gottagarden
    12 years ago

    Mine self-seed like mad. I just pull them out which is easy when they are small. Even fancy cultivars like majeste self-seed and come true to the parent. Mine are in deep shade and rich moist soil, which they love.

  • steve22802
    12 years ago

    Mine self sow too. I just have the plain variety with green foliage. I've been thinking about getting some Jack Frost. Will the cultivar 'Jack Frost' come true to the parent when it self sows? That would be really nice!

  • rodja in NZ
    12 years ago

    Dont get pulmonarias and brunnera mixed up.I think Jack Frost is a brunnera.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    12 years ago

    'Jack Frost' is a Brunnera. Both Pulmonarias and Brunneras are especially valuable for shade where deer are a problem because they give a broad leaf hosta-like look when you can't have hosta.

  • gottagarden
    12 years ago

    My Jack Frost brunnera self seeds and stays true to the parent, even though the plain brunnera is right next to it. I've given away several seedlings and have been popular!

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    12 years ago

    I've had mine three years. I have Mrs Moon with spots on the leaves and pink/blue flowers. I divided the one I had last year and replanted two divisions. This year they came back and looked pitifully small in early April but by the end of the month, both divisions are almost as large as the original plant and blooming their head off. Plus, I discovered one little sprig back in the old location. They bloom for a long time in the spring and I've never had mildew. I do have dry beds and part shade. I'll have to check for little seedlings.

  • arbo_retum
    12 years ago

    darlene, by any chance does your last name end in 'ington'and you are no. of seattle in snohomish?
    best,
    mindy

  • darlene87
    12 years ago

    No, last name is not that, although I am in Wash. south of Seattle. Close tho, we drive to snohomish a few times per year.
    Darlene

  • geoforce
    12 years ago

    I simply love pulmonaria as a deer resistant plant with near year-round appeal. I have several different named ones and they furnish me with a small annual supply of seedlings to fill in shady corners or give away. All are clumpers but can be easily divided for multiplication in early to mid spring. 'Trevi Fountain' for overall vigor, 'Cotton Cool' for distinction and 'Bertram Anderson' for astonishingly blue flowers.

    George

  • linlily
    12 years ago

    I also love my pulmunaria. I've had it for two years - this is it's third- and it is a nice, rounded clump full of pink and blue flowers. Mine has green leaves with silver spots, and is a noid given to my by a friend. Later in the summer, as the sun moves more overhead, my plant will get more sun than I think it should. But it has adapted well and looks very healthy most of the summer.

    If you divide it, be sure to do it early in the season before it gets too hot. And be sure to give the new plants you made lots of water. Right after planting the divisions, your plants may wilt in the heat of the day and extra water helps take care of that.

    Linda

  • leslie197
    12 years ago

    I currently have two varieties of pulmonaria in my garden, Excalibur (2001) and May Bouquet (2004). Both are clumpers and are definitely not invasive, but May Bouquet does grow much faster than Excalibur.

    May Bouquet is one of those plants that can be divided (if you want to get more plants for yourself or to share with a friend) the 2nd year after purchase. Left undivided the plant's growth slows after a few years and pretty much matches Excalibur's moderate yearly increases. Both these plants are well worth the money - attractive, long-lived, well-behaved, with lovely flowers and foliage. Highly recommended!

    BTW, the foliage is very different on the two plants. E is a striking silvery greenish gray, while MB has very attractive silvery spots on a somewhat greener leaf color.

  • Roni K.
    11 days ago

    Beware of Brunerra - it is widely considered to be an invasive species.

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    11 days ago

    I was interested in that assertion so I did some searching. I couldn't find any information on Brunnera being invasive. Could you give us a reference?

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    10 days ago

    I'm sorry but self seeding prolifically in one's own garden does not come anywhere close to the accepted definition of an invasive species!! Many people plant perennials specifically for that attribute (freely self seeding). I would be hard pressed to call brunnera even thuggish, let alone invasive.

  • Roni K.
    10 days ago

    Yes, there definitely is an official list for every state, province, municipality, of invasive flora and fauna. As for Brunerra, it is not officially invasive here (Vancouver, BC), but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a caveat attached to it, for those who are unfamiliar with the plant. I mean, look how many people plant ivy, and look at the damage that does (and that IS on EVERY list that I have seen)!

    Self-sowing is one way in which a plant can be considered invasive - or, in this case, aggressive; rhizomes are another. Brunerra does both, but it is the seeds that are the real issue, as that is how they end up in other people's gardens.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    9 days ago

    Because the term "invasive" has been bandied about so often with little consideration of its broader implication (primarily the ecological threat that a true invasive species poses), both Federal and global authorities dealing with invasive species have established an official and universally accepted definition of exactly what an invasive species is. An invasive species is an organism that is not indigenous or native to a particular area and that has the potential to cause environmental or economic harm..

    A plant that self seeds or spreads vigorously in one's own garden but does not spread rampantly to colonize natural spaces and overwhelm native plantings does NOT fit that definition. You can call it thuggish, aggressive or rampant if you like but you cannot legitimately call it invasive unless it invades natural or wild habitats to the detriment of the native plants.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    9 days ago
    last modified: 9 days ago

    Roni, if you are having trouble with Brunnera or any plant that spreads by rhizomes, consider removing it and all instances of it. If it is a heavy self seeder, one way to reduce the problem with it is to deadhead it before it sets seeds. That is what I do with self seeders that I enjoy but don't want a zillion of them.

    GGal - I understand the point you are trying to make, that you are referring to the official definition of invasive. I think we all understand that there are many definitions of one word and using it to say a plant in your garden is 'invasive' is still a legitimate use of the word. If gardeners have followed along with the official work in creating a data base of invasive plants for each state, then either they already know they should always check that list, or they can certainly be reminded to check the list.

  • Roni K.
    9 days ago

    Thank you, prairiemoon2. 😊

  • Roni K.
    7 days ago

    Thank you, Prairiemoon2 - indeed I do take it very seriously, to the point where I have contacted my City Hall when I see invasive plants out of control, whether on private or public land. I am in ilved with a few (rl) native plant/invasive species groups, too. It is such an important cause and I am passionate about it.

    I am officially bowing out of this discussion, as it is no longer about gardening. ☮

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    7 days ago
    last modified: 7 days ago

    Roni, I agree, I believe this thread is done. I was wondering if you are new to Gardenweb. I haven't seen your screen name before. If so, I'm sorry if this was one of your first experiences here, that would be unfortunate. I hope you will continue to post. There really are a lot of friendly people and many who are passionate about preventing invasive plants from destroying habitat and about planting native plants. I hope I will see you on other threads. 🙂

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Interesting. I just returned to this thread to see if Roni had responded to my comment and I see that Garden Gal, you have removed a number of your posts, which is fine if that is what you wanted to do, but it does leave anyone coming along and reading the thread for the first time, unable to actually follow how the discussion evolved.

    And now that I look closer, Linaria removed her comment as well. Hmm....okay, so according to how the thread reads now, the current posts at any rate, I was talking to myself. [g] Moving on now. As far as I'm concerned, it's already forgotten and I'm back to friendly discussion on GW.

  • linaria_gw
    5 days ago

    just as an information


    I did not remove anything myself, I had never considered that


    my guess is that someone flagged it or some such

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    5 days ago

    Linaria - I just figured that out. It would appear that someone at Houzz came along and removed what they wanted and left what they wanted. They even removed some of Roni's comments and someone else's. I don't get it but I am moving on now. Back to more pleasant topics and conversations.

  • Roni K.
    5 days ago

    I appreciate your heartfelt concern, prairiemoon2. It's nice to know that the negative folks aren't the norm here. We women should be supporting one another, after all.

    I will probably pop up up here & there in these garden forums.
    Happy growing!

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    I will look forward to seeing you Roni and you've been inspirational to me for all the effort you've made to make a difference in your corner of the world. And really, I would love to know more about the story of your property. It sounds quite fascinating how you've had to consult with so many people. I wonder if it might feel restrictive to you to have to garden within any limitations your location might necessitate? But...again....maybe another time. I'd like to get off this thread for sure. [g]

    I should also say that I think this has been a horrible couple of years since Covid, and all the polarization with politics. I think it's driven all of us quite crazy. it feels like the world is out of control and I see in myself as well, a drive to try to control as much as you can. For the world to make sense. It's been so stressful. GardenGal has always been very willing to share her experience and horticultural knowledge with everyone here on a daily basis for years. So, I just want to balance this thread with all of that.

    Yes, enjoy your garden! We just had a good dose of rain, which my garden is loving and forecast for 4 days of sun and comfortable temperatures, I'm looking forward to getting out into the garden as much as possible!

  • Roni K.
    4 days ago

    Thank you for your heartfelt concern, prairiemoon2! We gals should be supporting one another, and the internet has become a very divisive environment of late, sadly.

    What is you favourite thread in here, so I can respond to your questions elsewhere?

    ~~Roni

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    Hi Roni, Well, that was a thought provoking question. [g] I had to think, what is my favorite thread. Then I had to go looking for what I've been posting on lately. Nothing seemed to fit the bill of the kind of gardening you are doing. I don't primarily garden with native plants, althought I'm very cautious of invasives. So, I went looking for the 'Natives' forum here that I could start a thread that you could respond to. Surprise, no natives forum? Really? I was surprised. I see there is a Natives Plant Exchange, but I didn't see a thread there that would be appropriate. I know I've read some posts lately about native plants but they had to be part of another discussion.

    So, Roni, I grow perennials and shrubs, some of which are native. I just made an order this spring from of all places PrairieMoon Nursery [no connection to me] of seeds, and bareroot plants. I also grow roses, I'm an organic gardener. I grow vegetables. So, I normally am posting in the New England forum which is where I am from, but there is light activity there usually. Or I'm posting to the Vegetable forum sporadically or the Rose forum sporadically. The Perennials forum is often the most active, and I guess I post there sporadically too.

    So, I'm thinking, I'm going to give you a link to two threads that I've been posting to lately. One is on the New England forum that is really just a photo thread that is monthly. People post photos of what is going on in their garden for that month and then they start a new one the next month. Naturally conversations grow out of that sometimes, sometimes not. Or there is a second thread called Blooming June, started by a long time member on the Perennial forum, that I've responded to recently.

    If you would like to just jump into either of those threads and post a few photos and feel free to join the conversation. Or I could start an entirely new thread on the Perennials forum on the subject of the kind of gardening you are doing, and see how much interest you get on natives. I'd at least be very interested to follow along.

    That would be my suggestion for you to feel out the forums to see if it is a fit for you. Really, the forums used to be called GardenWeb and it was a great place to be, and there was a lot of fast moving discussion, but a lot changed when the site moved to Houzz and a lot of long time members left and there has been less activity here.

    So, what I am going to do, is start a new thread on the Perennial forums to ask you about your garden and you can see how much interest that generates in the kind of gardening you do. And if that seems less than you hope, then you can try the two threads I mentioned and see if the conversations interest you at all. Here are the links. The first one is a new thread that I started just to talk about the garden you are doing and the next two are the threads I've posted to lately that seem to have a conversation going about people's gardens....

    Anyone here doing any native plant restoration gardening?

    Show us Your Landscape Gardens A Photo Thread June 2021

    Bloomin June 2021

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    There is a Native Plants Forum. It’s here: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/natives

    But you won’t find it free of discussions about invasive species, and, being dedicated to natives, they’ll be using the scientific definition of the term.

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    I don't know why either I or Roni would have any problem with a discussion of invasive speciies, we both support removing them and keeping them from damaging plant ecology, and Roni is working hard to keep them out of her property. and I'm also interested in using natives although not exlusively. And I have no problem at all with someone using the word 'invasive' to refer to a plant on the invasive list, why should I? It's their perogative. And I also use the word invasive to refer to a plant on the list. I just don't believe it can only be used for that.

    Thank you Floral for providing the link. I wonder why it is not in the directory of forums? I looked for it. I also looked for it at the heading of the Native Plant Exchange thinking there would be a link.

  • Roni K.
    4 days ago

    Thank you both! I will check them out! Happy Gardening! 🌻

  • Roni K.
    4 days ago

    (Be patient with me: I can't sign in to access your links for some reason; awaiting reply from support...)

  • prairiemoon2 z6b MA
    4 days ago

    Roni, Take your time, there is no time schedule. I noticed there is quite a conversation going on on the first link. I'm sure by the time you are able to see it, you will enjoy it and I look forward to your contribution. Don't worry about it at all. :-)

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