Randy, not to be discouraging but Golden Celebration is going to have blackspot more than Graham Thomas, Pat Austin or Heritage. I think Heritage spots the least, then Pat and then Graham, but GC is one of the worst Austins and I always wonder if it is that Persian yellow heritage that causes it in all yellow roses. Having said that, Graham Thomas is less likely to spot than GC but GC's bloom and fragrance are far and away above Graham Thomas (in my garden) though I have seen some of the prettiest GT's in the world in the panhandle of Florida. I am scratching my head too.

Randy, I agree with everything Patricia said. However, as mine as gotten older, it does seem as though it has less and less BS with age. I almost wrote mine off as the worst of the worst..even with a regular spray program but the last couple years (he's 6 now) have been good and healthy. I couldn't give up on him just because of the awesome blooms and fragrance.

Reading this thread makes two questions pop into my head - because I am still so new to gardening: 1. Would a solid and perseverant organic soil amendment program help reduce plant problems over the long haul (after 3-5 years)? 2. Would the roses benefiting from this and reaching maturity (over 5 years old) show less stress from these problems?

I would swear that I observe less (not none, just less) mildew on a lot of the plants this year than lastÂand I work hard each year to improve the mess I inherited (bad soil). Some varieties that had a little mildew last year are clean this year. This being said, it could simply be because weÂre having a dry yearÂIÂd trust a sage like Olga or some of the other forum people, who have many years of gardening experience. I hope your GC gets better, Randy. When itÂs good, it takes the breath away.

Jerome

Isn't Abraham Darby subject to blackspot? GC comes from AD. It doesn't mildew or rust in Southern California -- but that doesn't help you one bit. :-(

Jeri

I honestly can't comment about blackspot, because my roses just don't get it here. But I wonder, in an ongoing fashion, about cultural methods. I grow my 'Golden Celebration' lean, just mulch, no other fertilizer and no extra water, and it's a very healthy, sturdy, floriferous rose: one of my best Austins (own root). Does anybody have any idea if it would make any difference growing a rose to be healthy but not stuffing it with water and nutrients to grow as fast and bloom as much as possible? This works for me with GC, but I recognize that my growing conditions are different from Randy's and other gardeners'.

Melissa

Randy, for what it's worth, I grow GC no spray, and it did much better than Heritage. Graham Thomas loses all its leaves after the first flush, then grows new leaves which stay relatively clean for the rest of the year. I do have BS issues here. Carding Mill is right next to GC and gets spotty and defoliates. I am planting clematis with my roses that defoliate so the clematis leaves will hide the bare canes...

I do ammend the soil with loads of manure and alfalfa pellets, and I mulch and water. I am noticing, however, that some of the "neglected" roses seem to be doing better than those that get the extra water. Those that are "neglected" are often too far from the reach of the hose and will get water only during an extreme dought situation.

Roses are incredible.
Robert

Randy, my GC is loaded with BS right now, I don't spray so I hope it will get better with age, otherwise it goes in the trash. I'll continue feeding it with organic fert. and I guess.. wait and see in two years.

My GC is a lovely rose but still young----I don't remember it having a lot of BS last year----I will watch it more closely this year---Seems like it does very well in some gardens.
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Florence

With few exceptions it seems that others have better luck with Golden Celebration than do I, it probably just proves the point others have pointed out about me all along, I am an idiot.

Patricia, I got lots of BS on mine. It still bloomed pretty heavily and that was in a not entirely sunny spot... but it was pretty naked by summertime. Although looking at Zeffy's incredible picture makes me want to rush out and get another one... I probably won't. I still find it one of the most beautiful, amazing rose blooms I have ever seen.

You know, what it IS, is -- Golden Celebration seems to be a rose destined for California, and other warm, dry climates. It doesn't mildew for us, or rust, and blackspot is a rare visitor here.

Jeri

Ha, Jeri, speak for yourself! I was in N. Cal. when I grew my Golden Celebration. Like I said, it bloomed OK, but it was black spot hell. It is a lot less warm and dry in the inner Bay Area, but that is a major population spot in California!

I actually think it would do a lot better here in Portland, because the summers are both warmer and dryer for three whole months than in the Bay Area. The only consistently warm, dry month in the Bay Area is September, and that's got the wrong day length cycle for really good rose blooming.

Patricia, you are not an idiot. I dug mine up because I couldn't keep the thing clean even with spray. It does have beautiful blooms, but I like some leaves with my blooms.

Carol

I was wondering if GC does so well in the east as it does here in California. It is truly amazing here. Below is a link to a webpage of my old garden in Fresno, with a few photos of Golden Celebration after it'd been in the ground for 3 or possibly 4 years (can't remember any longer).

Jerome's question is a good one, and I've been thinking for quite some time that it may explain why some roses get better disease resistance over time. Some of that was confirmed for me in reading about the "Soil food web" and how a healthy garden can actually outcompete the pests, particularly fungal and bacterial pests.

--Ron

Here is a link that might be useful: Page with Golden Celebration

Ron, that Golden Celebration (and all those roses....Lordie, Lady Hillingdon is Wonderful!) is spectacular.

When I started here in 2004, we had tons of aphids. I did the organic thing, mulch every year, alphalpha etc...now hardly any aphids, and lots of these teeny (don't know the species) little birds come and eat them off...really neat.

I am patient too (sometimes) I just throw the stuff on the soil, because it seems the thing to do, but I don't watch the progress...or I get frustrated. I do notice when planting now that the soil is a LOT better than it was in 2004.

Jerome

Thank you all for sharing your experiences with Golden Celebration. I knew that the potential for blackspot was there when I began dabbling in the Austin roses. If I didn't alreay grow 'Heritage', I wouldn't have thought anything about the blackspot I'm seeing on GC. But my Heritage is just so perfectly clean that I had to ask about other people's experience with GC.

I still have high hopes for my Golden Celebration, and hopefully the BS will lessen in time. And I'm glad that 'Heritage' seems to like my micro-climate just fine.

Oh, and Patricia, I listen and value everything you say on this forum. Not only are you not an "idiot", you are brilliant. And a lovely person in addition to that.

Randy

Jerome,

Thank you for the kind words about my old garden. I know what kind of bird you're talking about. I've always loved them, they fly in little flocks and chitter from shrub to shrub, and tend to be a little bold, or at least not concerned by my presence very near to them. One thing I noticed in Fresno was the huge increase in bird life after growing a lot of roses, particularly the climbers on the open-work fence. One of my favorites, California Quail, I rarely saw before we got the garden going. In just 3 years not only did I see them more often, but we had 3 families with their babies being raised in our garden. Truly gratifying. We started having large flocks of Mourning Doves living in the garden all the time, and numerous other birds attracted to the "easy living" they thought the other birds were having there.

And yes, even the poorest soil eventually does show improvement with efforts like yours. In Texas, I had very poor sand, but over the years of adding mushroom compost and whatever else I could get, I strated seeing loamy sand going down about 6 inches before I moved away.

Patricia, there's no one with any sense in their head at all that could think of you as an idiot. Truly it had to be a case of projection!

I don't know about everyone else, but so far this spring has been really wonderful. The magnolias were splendid, bulbs all bloomed, and it even looks like I'm going to have a stand of Fritillaria imperialis come into bloom here (and these were bargain basement bulbs I found at a local nursery!). Of course, as a gardener I know I could be speaking to soon and disaster could be just around the corner, but I'd be remiss not to enjoy what it's been like so far. I just love hardy perennials, and my White bleeding hearts (the spectabilis variety) have all come back and are in glorious bloom. Everyone around here told me they don't come back very well, but I had high hopes, and this cold winter was apparently what they needed, even my Meconopsis grandis that I grew from seed are coming on strong for their second, and hopefully flowery year.

--Ron

Florence,

I do love your pictures of your house--it looks so green and leafy and deeply comforting.

Melissa

Ron---the pictures of your garden took my breath away---

Melissa ---what a sweet thing to say----When it is really hot in the summer I'm happy to have all the shade but it is a challenge to grow roses.

Patricia------I was very upset when you called yourself an idiot(your word)----You are one of the nicest ladies here on the Forum and very well informed----and very helpful---
whst could possibly have ever put that thought in your sweet head????---maybe you were just having a bad day.
I think a lot of you and appreciate all your help.

Florence

Golden Celebration leaves this year. It suffers from terminal leaf spot in Mill Valley, not worth growth.

I just shovelpruned my GC last summer after nearly 7 years. I'm in coastal southern California where we have ocean-influenced conditions about 85% of the time. The first two years were drier, sunnier summers and GC was a beauty and very floriferous. THe past 4 years have been very cloudy May - August and the flowering diminished and blackspot increased. GC is a a very big arching semi-climber here and not very pretty with blackspotted 7 foot canes. The flowers were heavenly, tho, maybe my favorite Austin flower. I make do with Molineux now which is a very erect 5-7ft bush in my garden, occupying the sunniest spot. However, with the dry sunny winter we had in soCal this year, I'm finding many of my roses are blooming better than usual.

Awesome pictures, Ron. My GC is just starting to mature and I hope in a few years it looks as 1/10 as good as yours did. Did you leave all those roses behind? It would have been near impossible to move them, they looked huge.

Where are you located, Mudbird? We have never had a blackspot problem with Golden Celebration, here near the coast in Ventura County. It doesn't rust here, and it doesn't mildew here. It does have some other assorted fungal problems periodically, but for the most part it is healthy here.
The BIGGEST problem GC has here is that if the canes are cut, it will die back. We'll eventually replace most of our Golden Celebration hedge with a "Grandmother's Hat" hedge, because of that. But I think we'll always grow GC here. (And it is one of a very few Austins that are still here).
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Jeri

Jeri, that is an awesome bloom!

Randy

Jeri -- I'm just inland from Venice Beach in an old neighborhood called Mar Vista which is up on a big bluff north of Culver City and Marina del Rey. We have had mostly cloudy summers the past 2-3 years. I had trouble with my GC after it's 3rd or 4th year - after letting it grow out fully to about 7 ft, it never bloomed as well and started to BS regularly. I tried hardpruning it one year, but it never never regained vigor. After a couple more years, I shovelpruned it. I will probably try it again, this time ownroot-- it was my husband's favorite flower!

Thanks for all the nice words. I apologize for my bad day.

I have a Jean Giono Romantica rose..I live in Seattle. It is close in color to Golden Celebration..it is spectacular.

Mudbird -- I'm wondering if what GC has been troubled with for you is not blackspot, but Anthracnose. We do see that problem on GC from time to time.
Take a gander at pix of Anthracnose on Baldo Villegas "Bugs and Roses" Web Site, and see if it doesn't look familiar.
For the most part, the only time it's warm enough here for Blackspot to ramp up is during Santa Ana wind events. And in those conditions, it's way to dry for blackspot.
If it's damp enough for blackspot, it's mildew time, but too cool for blackspot.
Last spring, we got a freaky 2-3 day period of "tropical" air. 'Midnight Blue' blackspotted from top to bottom, overnight. I've never stripped leaves off a plant so fast in my life!
When the foliage grew back, the weather had gone back to our normal "June Gloom," and there was no more blackspot.

Jeri

Jeri -- thanks for the tip on Anthracnose. I'll research it later today. I think June gloom may be setting in early again. We've also noticed some strange spells of tropical humidity the past couple years.

Well, the weather is changing all over. Our June Gloom is remarkably thick for this time of the year. I could only see the coastal hills briefly today -- they're gone again now. But then, I grew up inland, and I LOVE cool weather, so I'm happy to deal with coastal fog.

Jeri

Yes, i love the cool gloomy weather myself. It's just a bit tricky with the roses. Haven't been able to really grow Francis Dubreuill the last few years :( .

Francis gets mildew here in the spring, but today had the largest blooms - must have been 4" across. But the mildew here this year and last has been epic. Even the teas like Mme. Lombard, Baronne Henriette de Snoy and William R. Smith mildew now. Must admit that GC does not get one bit of that affliction.

Jerome

Well here in Richmond, east of San Francisco, a tad sunnier GC is a good girl and Patricia has never been an idiot, Indeed! I do notice that roses get better with improving soil and some even get a scent but GC has that in spades to start with. I give her a CA prune-1/3 off the top,chop the dead and diseased and maybe the oldest canes, to encourage the new canes.
la

I was checking on my Golden Celebration today, and she is getting ready to bloom (you expected me to say "fixin' to bloom didn't you), even though she's a small plant. There are two little buds forming at present. I was very pleased with the first bloom on "Spice" recently, and I think I'll be pleased with GC as well.

Randy

Mudbird my DH lived in Mar Vista. His car was broken into 3 times...I think Mar Vista has improved since then.

I am surprised people are having that many problems with this rose. It got so big last year it started to interfere with my front door, so I hack it back to 12 inch cans. There is already 4 feet of new growth on it. I think it is a pretty awesome rose.

Villandry -- You and I are in California, where GC seems to be very happy. Blackspot isn't a big issue here.

Jeri

hoovb: That was a long time ago in Mar Vista -- many people wish they had bought back then because MV has improved quite a bit since! We are happy to have gotten our house 10 yrs ago -- one of the last old ones from the early days of Abbot Kinney creating the Venice Canals -- and, it's taken a lot of pioneer spirit but I got the big garden I wanted, an old rambling house. a view of the ocean from afar & lots of ocean breeze & fog, all in an old neighborhood that's like a village (used to be covered in bean fields a hundred years ago). All the vacant lots have been developed in the last couple years (McMansions of course!), but MV retains its old charm nonetheless. And now we even have a Farmers Market on Sunday -- and it's a great place to garden!

I live in South Eastern PA and just bought Golden from Ashdown Nurseries and it arrived with black spot. I stuck it in the ground and gave it Bayer 3 and 1 I hope this won't hurt it!!! Anyone in this area have this rose??

Mine has been planted a year. It has the worst case of any but I will try to carry on and continue to spray. If it seems to be a hopeless case or defoliates, I will dig it up.
Of course this is from the person who just bought another Bourbon!

Carla