I could approach it at least mentally.I have:Red Radiance, Careless Love, Mrs. Charles Bell, Bubble Bath, Spice,Bubble Bath,Lady Hillingdon and a couple I think you should try,Gruss en Coberg and Mme. Lombard. I also have Lyda Rose and a single named Smarty that you might love.
la

Sadly, I don't have what you want.
:-(

Jeri

I'll be delighted to contribute, Melissa. I have the Burmuda roses Mme Joseph Schwartz, Maggie & Miss Atwood. If you don't already have or have access to Georgetown Tea & Duchess de Brabant, you'll want them too. Allie

Melissa, where will you be? I can pull together some cuttings for you if you're coming to WA; shipping them to FL is probably much less workable for the roses as the distance is too great and the shipping too iffy. What a brilliant idea - I'd love to help you out!

Sue

Hi Melissa,
I am a complete newcomer to the forum, so I can't help you this year.....maybe if you do this again, I can learn to do cuttings...My Maggie rose, I planted 2 weeks ago, already had a big bud on it....and she is my 1ST OGR!!(told you I'm a newbie(:>)
However,
Just wanted to say what a great idea this is and I wish you lots of luck! I wish I could participate...Please let us know how it goes....this is more interesting than one of those reality tv shows!!
Good Luck!!!!!
Michelle

I would love to help you, Melissa, but all the roses I feel you might be interested in are small bands. The one exception is Huilito, which I purchased last September in Vintage's "Unloved Roses" sale. Well, as far as I'm concerned this unknown rose is also rather unlovable. The flowers are so-so, hang their heads, the fragrance is just average and I understand that because of the Bourbon influence this China is not everblooming. However, it may be that this rose will improve with age. (Don't we all?) It is the only one of my bands that has canes stout enough for cuttings, and therefore I offer it for your consideration. I'm including pictures so you can see the demerits of this rose and decide accordingly. I would insist on paying the postage because I think what you're doing is really exciting and worthwhile, and I'd love to be a part of your endeavor.

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Ingrid

If you bring back Radiance I may be tempted to visit you for a cutting in a few years! I've wanted this pink HT since 1998 when I first saw it at Sangerhausen. The Gothenburg rosarium had it but lost it only two years ago.

I had Lyda Rose from Loubert last year and it's very promising already. I guess that it's still under patent as it's only 14 yrs old.

Hi Melissa,

I don't know if you'd be interested but I have an old HT called Belgica. I bought it as a small band from Vintage Roses three years ago. I've noticed that they only offer it as a special order now. I don't know if it's available in Europe or not.

I grow it in a pot because of my harsh winters. It has done wonderfully and this year it should be a lovely small shrub. The deep rose pink flowers are very full and they have a unique sweet fragrance that I love. They remind me of old roses. I can email some pictures of it to you once it starts flowering if you would like.

Anyhow, I thought I'd make the offer because I believe that this rose is well worth the garden space. I just wish that I could grow it in the ground rather than a pot.

If you decide that you would like to try it, you'll need to give me instructions on how to take the cuttings because I am clueless in that regard!

Sorry that I don't have any of the other roses that you are looking for.

Cherrie

Melissa, I will send you a list of all the roses I grow and if you want any cuttings from them, you're welcome to them. If you're going to be in Florida, then the transit time from Alabama should not be very long at all.

Let me know; but mine are pretty vanilla, not having gone far into the realm of roses-whose-names-I can't pronounce.

I seriously doubt that it is legal to import even cuttings privately from USA to Europe. It is illegal according to EU Agriculture Department. The professional rosenursery Owners I know are very reluctant to import roses from USA without thoruohg quarantine procedures. We especially do not want to have the rose scale introduced here in Europe. Since they can cause serios damage to roses and, blackberry and raspberry bushes. So do a thourough check up on the legal tecnicalities and make sure the cutting have no scales on them (Apply horticultural oil to the canes to make sure) and please bring Eugene De Beauharnais too!!!

Cupshaped,
I don't understand where is the problem with the "rose scale", 'cause we have already the rose scale, Aulacaspis rosae, in Europe...
And I know that import is forbidden in Italy, from USA, but not from USA to other EU countries, like France.
Can you tell me more about that?

Ciao,
Maurizio

Melissa, you probably don't want to hear this, but it is as Niels says. You are not allowed to import rose cuttings that way (whether or not they have leaves). The only parts of roses that are not forbidden are pollen, seeds, dormant plants (including cuttings) and cut flowers. However, these have to be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate and have to be inspected on arrival in the EU.

European phytosanitary regulation is laid down in Council Directive 2000/29 of the European Commission. Directives have to be implemented into national law; the import requirements are harmonized in all Member States, but the implementation of procedures may differ slightly between Member States.

So what does 2000/29 say about roses? Most relevant are Annex III and Annex V.

- Annex III, the annex of plant material of which the introduction into the EU is forbidden, says: 'Plants of [...] Rosa L., intended for planting, other than dormant plants free from leaves, flowers and fruit.' The definition of plants intended for planting also includes cuttings (and budwood and scions). However, there is no definition of dormant in the directive. I doubt cuttings are considered dormant when they are cut from the plant in the growing season, so they are probably forbidden to import.

- Annex V, part B, the Annex of plants that have to be inspected when imported, says: 'Plants intended for planting [...] originating in [...] the USA.' So, 'forms' of roses that are not forbidden by Annex III (seeds, pollen and dormant bareroot plants), have to be inspected by the Italian Plant Protection Service upon arrival. Plants also have to be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate, which has to be issued by the US Plant Protection Organisation.

There are not many plants that 'deserve' a place on the Annex III list of forbidden plant material. This means that, when plants are on that list, they pose serious phytosanitary risks when imported. These risks are so serious that they cannot even be 'managed' by the inspection procedures, that are applicable to Annex V plants.

My advice: if you want roses from the US, order them from a reputable nursery that ships to Italy and knows the appropriate procedures. Then all you have to do is follow the appropriate import procedure in Italy. This will reduce the risk of importing dangerous organisms, like fungi, viruses (RRD?), Thrips species, rose midge, or even cane borers. Yes, it will cost more and it is a nuisance, but it is doable and, of course, the only legal way to do it.

An alternative is to persuade a European nursery to import and propagate the plants for you. This takes longer for you to have the plants, but you do not have to worry about all those procedures and, even more important, makes the varieties available to all rose enthusiasts in Europe (like Niels, Marianne and me!). And, if your rose accidentally dies, it guarantees it is still somewhere at a nursery ready to be propagated. One nursery that you might be able to persuade is De Bierkreek in The Netherlands. The owner has connections with Paul Zimmermann from Ashdown in the US and has imported obscure (from this side of the pond), but very interesting, roses from amateur (or should I say semi-professional) American and Canadian hybridizers in the recent past.

Rob

Here is a link that might be useful: Council Directive 2000/29/EC (PDF)

Maurizio, phytosanitary regulation is harmonized, so it is the same for every Member State of the EU. However, there are some areas within the EU that are designated as protected zones and for those areas more strict rules apply. However, there are no stricter rules for roses in protected zones, as far as I know.

Also, you may be confused with export from Italy to the US. It is true that Italy (and Bulgaria) has a 'special' status: the US bans import of roses from Italy to the US. They do not ban roses from other EU countries to the US, except for R. gymnocarpa, R. rugosa and Royal Bonica, Pink Meidiland and Pink Sevilliana (possibly because of Phytophthora ramorum). They also ban roses from Australia and New Zealand.

Rob

Thank you Rob, this is very helpful! :o)

Ciao!
Maurizio

ALAS!!!!!!!

Okay, first things first.

To start out with, a big THANK YOU to Luanne, Jeri, Allie, Sue, Michelle, Ingrid, Cherrie, and the Duchess for your offers of cuttings, your good wishes, and your moral support! Luanne, I believe it's your photos of 'Bubble Bath' that put it on my want list to begin with, and probably your having the 'Radiance' family in your garden had a good deal to do with that group too. Anyway, I appreciate it!

Now. Although I did check rules for importation through an Italian friend, and he thought it was legal after some research on the Internet, I didn't dare inquire too closely, though I see others here on the forum did it for me. My friend, by the way, receives and sends propagable plant matter and plants from and to the U.S., no phytosanitary checks involved, and no, I'm not going to say how he does it. Italy is a nation of the most tremendous scofflaws! UE rules nothwithstanding, I can assure you that there's PLENTY of uninspected plant material coming into this country; and that my chances of bringing in illegal cuttings without the least difficulty are excellent. The only problem is that I'm not Italian: a whole spiritual army of Protestant, northern European ancesters stands at my back and whispers in my ear, saying: "Obey the law!" And they have a point; the piteous condition of Italy shows what happens when too many of the citizens disregard or evade too many of the laws too often, and also have no philosophy of respect for the law. And enough about that, on the rose forum. The question is, have the moths of Italian mores put enough holes in the fabric of my integrity? Wait and find out!

Rob and Niels: Thanks for the educational tour, bitter though the taste may be. The advice is sound, though with one minor problem: money. I don't have much, and your route sounds expensive. I appreciate the suggestion of De Bierkreek and will certainly consider getting in touch with the nursery, the more so as I have no acquaintance with any plant people in the Netherlands. Another possibility might be the Hooks in France, who are already importing from the U.S. But....cost. If I had some money, and the makings of a nurserywoman, in sheer desperation I would start up my own nursery. But I don't, nor is it what I want to do.

"If ignorance is bliss,/'Tis folly to be wise." Sometimes I hate wisdom and rationality. Thanks for all the input, folks.

Melissa

Thank you Rob for providing the knowledge I lacked (You Should know right!). I just knew it was illegal for private gardeners to import plant material from USA.

Melissa you are absolutely correct about ignorance being a bliss! You are also correct about your observations about how things seems to work in Italy. But I think most of us find that part of the charm about Italy, part of Le Dolce Vita.

So often we as rosegardeners want someting so bad. I really want Eugene De Beuharnais, the China Sanguinea, and the fake wichuriana Sombreuil/Colonial white the grow in America. I also want POPE John II. A good fragrant withe hybrid tea is so desirable!!!

In these days were transatlantic fligts are relative cheap and the dollar is record low, USA is one of the cheapest places to go shopping and visiting friends and family. I bet many gardeners take the chance and take plants home in their suitcases. Chances of getting caught are low. Even I get tempted some times since I know how to propagate roses (I just need few budeyes!!). I am not a better person than anybody else ... dipped in fungicide and horticultural oil reduces the risk. NUF said.

But It would be a good idea that we help each other get the varieties of roses we want legally and safely. The more we are that are willing to pay for the costs, the more affordable it becomes.

Seems like Maurizio wants Eugene De Beauharnais too. So we need to make a network of rosegardeners and rosenurseries who import and exchange the plants we want. Hans van Tage at RoseNursery (sorry don´t no how to spell the dutch rosenkwekerei or something) de Bierkreek. I can send you cuttings or cuttings you can use for budwood (Learn how to propagate roses by T-budding. See the step by step tutorial I posted in rose propation forum). This way you will get plenty of chances to produce ownroot roseplants yourself from the motherplants. I always prefer to get budwood in August or september latest, for the roses I propagate myself (on multiflora rootstocks). Also remember I have access (nice words) to more than 1400 varieties of roses so cuttings can be sent your way. Some are however still protected by patents but all the OLD garden roses are a free for all, to propagate.

So where there is a will there is a way. Even if we are not millionaires or wealthy it is possible to make a system of paying it forward ... so everybody gets what they want.

Oh BTW Maurizio: I did check that we already had the rose scale over here. But according to a friend, it is a different species of Scale. He said they had it Huntington Botanical Garden, in California. Perhaps californians know what kind of scale it is? He did have few strokes, but he wrote a book about old Garden roses and have become a bit confused sometimes. I do however know that there are plenty of other critters I do not want to be on the loose over here.

Don't see what's wrong with bringing along a few sticks. Can't be any worse than packing an apple in your lunch. I seldom get roses that don't have a problem which is not native to Montana. Last bunch had aphids. Before I realized it, Great Maiden's Blush became Midget Maiden's Blush. Don't know if it's going to make it. The powdery mildew is arriving soon, and will have to be isolated, sprayed, so it doesn't infest everything. I give them a dose of their new reality, out baking in the sun.
Every year cars come to Yellowstone Park, bringing their bugs with them. I saw some bugs trying to get in the downtown business doors to get out of the cold which were exactly the same as a bug which escaped from a ship in New York harbor and was beginning to infest everything. I read about it in an article.
We have all kinds of spiders around here now which are not native. Last summer, I had one of those big fat spiders which occur in minnesota turn up.
Anyway, you can get Eugene de Beauharnais at this French nursery.

Here is a link that might be useful: La Roseraie du Dsert

Cuttings are propagation material and apples are not. Of course, many of the rules are set to regulate trade of plants and propagation material that will end up in the agricultural and horticultural production chain. However, just because you do not perceive a risk doesn't mean there isn't any. But from your further writing I read that you do understand the risks involved.

Melissa, I know it is realitvely easy to bring in plant material into the EU illegally as a private person. It may be even easier in Italy like you describe. However, I believe it is worthwile to make every effort to keep those American nasties out of our gardens (imagine Japanese beetles here!) :-) Money-wise: some of your roses can be ordered in France, this would be cheaper than getting them from the US. Also, if money is an issue: do you really need those roses or can you stick with local, cheaper varieties? (Ok, not really a solution, but still...) (BTW, you should tell your friend he is putting all of us nice and serious gardeners at risk).

Niels, it is certainly cheaper to make one big order and import them into the EU, following procedures, and then distributing them to everyone.

Rob

Niels,

I am all for a rose exchange network!! It's exactly what I want! By the way, S/CW is available as Colonial White from Schultheis in Germany (and they have good plants, good prices, and a REMARKABLE catalog), and under the name of Sombreuil from La Campanella in Italy, my favorite rose nursery in this country, also with a good list, good prices, good roses, good service. I have Sombreuil myself, two young own root plants, and am surprised you don't. The European version appears identical to the U.S. clone, which I grew in Washington. I have Sanguinea (likewise available from La Campanella) as well. Want some cuttings in early fall? (Sanguinea for sure; Sombreuil is still puny, but I could try, but it's not hard to find in commerce). Remind me then if you're interested. On the subject of fragrant white HTs, did you follow the recent thread (I started it) on Mme. Jules Bouché? She's a old campaigner with a lot of Tea about her; perhaps not what you're looking for, but I thought I would mention it.

Living with Italian lawlessness can be very uncharming: cheating in retail transactions, which is certainly not a universal practice, but more common that in the U.S. (my husband and I have fallen victim a few times); widespread tax evasion; clientelism and cheating in doling out all kinds of goodies, from jobs and contracts to places at the universities (heard about the rigged exams for some of the medical schools in southern Italy?); and, in some parts of the country, the capillary presence of the Mafia.

I propagate roses for myself and friends regularly, but from cuttings instead of by budding, and that for a number of reasons. I grow roses partly to learn about them, and one of the things I want to know is whether they are easy to propagate from cuttings and will grow well that way. I want to find roses that are good "passalong" roses. Almost all of Italy has a warm climate, in which own root roses seem to do well; and roses on their own roots give no trouble from suckers, and are supposed to be longlived. I currently have around four hundred roses (plants; and about 250 varieties), and at a guess 150-200 of those are own root, most of them propagated by me. I take cuttings every fall; last year I took about two hundred cuttings, and am hoping to get perhaps a hundred roses from them, which would be an excellent result by my standards. My propagation methods aren't very scientific, but are good enough for my needs.

Back to a network of rose exchanges: I'll be back in early September from the U.S. and will be able to send and receive cuttings, in my case for propagation own root. (Or? Do I learn how to bud roses for my mother plants? Down here roses are usually budded on Laxa, I believe, and I'd have to find the rootstock plants.) If you're interested I can send you a list of plants from which I can send cuttings. Lord knows what a third year of drought will do to our garden: poor growth of young plants, and we'll probably lose some. I'm mainly interested in older and antique varieties, so property rights aren't commonly a problem. I've also been planning on soliciting rose exchanges with members of the Italian rose forum I participate in (Maurizio is one of the moderators, and introduced me to the forum). I already exchange cuttings with all my gardening friends, but there just aren't that many of us in this area. We are all diligent in enriching each others' gardens, though.

I'm very serious about the rose exchange, so if you are, too, do keep it in mind.

Melissa

P.S. Who hybridized Pope John Paul II? What is its exact name (including the universal one)? I know I've seen it discussed in one of the forums, but I don't remember which one.

Melissa:

"My propagation methods aren't very scientific, but are good enough for my needs".

Then I think you should stick to growing roses from cutttings. I just prefer budding since I can produce many plants, that a year after is ready to be sold or exhanged.

I really am interested in the China Sanguinea! I have seen a local nursery having "Sombreuil s. Colonial white. They say the rose only gets to be 4 feet tall. So perhaps it really is the tea, and not the clone that climbs like the one in USA and that they discussed so much in ARS?

So I am really up for exchanging some roses, not that I need a lot more since I really don´t have any more space left.

I can send plenty of cuttings of many different varieties among the 200 different roses I grow myself (No thicker than a pencil, and wrapped in damp newspaper and in ziplock bags, Airmail to you). I also have access to about 600 other varieties of OGRs and about 400 modern roses. Some of the modern roses may still have licens rights. It is my understanding that we can progagate for private use, but not propagate roses for sale. At least we do not have any problems with OGRs. I can provide cuttings of almost all OGRs Gallicas, Albas, Damasks, centifolia, HPs, some chinas and polyanthas, and many Bourbons and Moschata roses. Even a few teas (Cl. Devoniensis, Safrano, Lady Hilindon, and Climbing Lady Hillingdon and about 120 different moss roses. And a huge variety of climbers.

Pope John Paul II is a white hybrid tea from Jackson and Perkins. (JACsegra). We might have to import that one, but I am not sure if it is any better than Memoire or the Danish Karen Blixen (Aka Roy black ..strange name for a white rose).

So make a list of roses you want to have cuttings from (Don´t be shy) and I can make a list of the few roses on my wish list and see what we can exchange. And what we have to import from USA. I am sure other Europeans also have something on their wish lists and Like Rob said can import them all together. (I do however think it will be hard to find these from one vendor).

Also I agree with good quality of roses from Germany! And very affordable. (Budded on R. Laxa Canina like most roses in France too). The Germans also know the word service and fast shipment ...unlike anything from France. I am done ordering roses from France! Some express parcels have taken 26 days to come and where rotten upon arrival, and communication is a mix inbetween Fawlty Towers and Monthy Python. And yes I have a friend who speak, write and teaches french. His wife works at the French Emabssy in Copenhagen. But still they don´t seem to understand anything. Perhaps the word service don´t exist in their vocabulary???

I do have tight scedule in September though. Since I will be going to Atlanta and later Salt Lake City, Utah September 11. (I hate to fly on that date!) or 12. So just email me your wish list and I will see what I can send. An Offer you can´t refuse!

Niels

Sorry to hear about the drought problems you are having down there. We have had 3 times as much rain during the last 8 monts as normal. there has not been a month since June where it has not rained here. I am tired of rain!

Btw Here is an interesting thread showing the special rose Scale I mentioned earlier:

It is called a cottony cushion scale! This is the scale we certainly do not want over here! (If it is not already here. At least it does not survive winters here in the north, but will be happy in the Southern Europe.

Here is a link that might be useful: scales

Niels,

THANKS for the encouraging response, and you will hear from me! Would cuttings sent in late May/June be useful to you? I should have cutting wood by then for some varieties. What thickness of cuttings do you need? I often take quite tiny and very slender cuttings from Teas and Chinas, because the plants are so quick to make new growth that I can't get them the standard pencil thickness. The cuttings root, too: would they do for budding?

I'm extremely skeptical about size estimates for roses: they are so often drastically wrong! The latest outrage was an Italian rose catalog, from a competent nursery, that describes 'Mutabilis' as reaching dimensions of 90cm x 60cm: here in Italy I've seen 'Mutabilis' the size of our living room. Pity the poor gardener who buys it thinking s/he's going to get a dwarf rose. Unless the nursery's description of 'Sombreuil' seems completely off base, or the rose itself looks wrong, I'd ignore the size description (and get the rose). 'Sombreuil' makes a good-sized climber, definitely not 4'. I'm not sure about the correct name, appearance, or availability of the true 'Sombreuil' (the Tea), and it would certainly surprise me to find it showing up in Denmark, but who knows. I get surprised.

I took a good look at De Bierkreek's website and nursery list and really liked what I saw. Before buying from them, I would want to know what rootstock they graft on (I can send an e-mail to ask). From what I've read, half paying attention, on the forum about multiflora, I rather doubt it would do do well in my dry, clay, alkaline soil, whereas Laxa is good here. So that would make a difference.

About getting together and making up a list of roses to import from the U.S.: I think it's a marvelous idea, and if I can afford to participate, I'll do so. A possible problem I see is the nature of the roses I want to have, and the location of the nurseries who might be interested in acquiring them. I'm mostly interested in warm-climate roses: old found Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes, and modern roses adapted to similar conditions. But would a Dutch nursery have much use for such roses? It seems to me that, in Europe, most of the most curious and adventurous gardeners and nurseries are in cold climate areas, while Italians, for example, with a climate marvelously suited for Teas, etc, ignore them and dote on Hybrid Teas and English roses. The Hooks in France are importing warm-climate roses from the U.S., and I'm buying from them, but they're far away, their roses are relatively expensive, as French roses seem to be (shipping as well); and as the roses arrive only slightly rooted they're harder to establish than most and need to be nursed through the first year: that's my current conclusion. The Hooks are conscientious and helpful, by the way, and they're doing important work, but I wish it were all easier. In Italy, there aren't enough gardeners and nurserymen who know and appreciate the warm-climate roses, and they struggle for a place in gardens. That's why I consider my own collection important.

Melissa

Dear Melissa:

You are right about the climatic differences and the need for different types of roses. Very few tea roses are going to survive up here. I do however want some of the more cold hardy modern roses since I can only push the hardiness zone by one. (some roses are more hardy than they get credit for, Lady Hillingdon for example does much better than for example the Austin Evelyn. In a local park they planted 50 lady Hillingdon and in another bed about 40-50 Evelyn rosebushes. Almost all the Evelyn roses died, perhaps 3 survived the first winter, but all the Lady Hillingdons survived. So we really have to try different roses and see how they perform over the years where we live.

And you are right about Mutabilis. After 5 years mine are 35cm x 35 cm "Tall" and "wide". A pretty little ground cover rose! I know it gets huge in better sunnier, warmer climates.

I do understand if you prefer to use De Hook instead of De BierKreek. If they specialize in roses that are more suited for your climate. I think most Dutch Rose Nurseries use Rosa Laxa as rootstocks? De Bierkreek have Ashdown Roses as their American partner. Anyway it is a process of patience because of quarantine procedures and the time it takes to propagate the roses. It may take up to 2-3 years before roses we import from USA can be shipped to you and me and others from the European Nursery that helps us with import from USA. So we have to make sure we get as many of the roses we want from USA in one or 2 shipment, since that is what costs. So it would be nice if we can find some other Europeans who want some roses from USA to share the cost with. Then all can have the roses they want shipped to their place in Europe from the nursery we can find that are willing to help us. But it is of course a very good idea to check if the roses we want are already over here. Just like you pointed out that Eugene the Beauharnais is already available from that French Nursery. I will get some plants of those in the fall and then take some cutting next year to send to Maurizio.

So we better ask around to find others who are interested in joining us. I would really like some cuttings from Sanguinea. I will get some Sombreuil plants locally and see what they are. I have emailed you through GWs system, not sure you got my email, since these are sometimes in the spam inbox. You can compile a wishlist of roses and I will send you all the cuttings I can. It is nice to get at least 6 twigs of each variety in ziplock bags.

It is a bit depressing that our American forum friends can not help us safely and legally. Because as you can see from the responses they would like to. But that goes both ways I am sure they would love to get cuttings from us too.

You know my daughter worked at a gift shop at the airport. The gift shop was in the secure place, just before you board. She had to go through security to get to work. One day she saw a wildflower she liked outside and picked it and brought it to work. They made her throw it away.
All she was thinking of doing was sticking it in a cup on the counter.
This is the weirdness these kinds of regulations come to.

Niels,
Your message didn't make it, probably, as you said, falling victim to my Hotmail filter; so I've written you myself to attempt to establish e-mail contact. Do you know the format of the Gardenweb-originated e-mail? If I have that I can probably tailor the filter to let those e-mails through.
Kaylah,
You're right, but on the other hand, if you want to get tired of lawlessness, just live in Italy for a few years and see what happens when everyone forgets why rules are supposed to be obeyed. You might even appreciate severe application of the laws, unreasonable as it can be in the individual case.
Melissa

...But that goes both ways I am sure they would love to get cuttings from us too.
You bet we loved to get a few cuttings from Europe. Not just old roses but all those new Tantau's that you have and I can just drooling over the photos :-(

Melissa,
Luanne and I can work together to come up with a list of roses and we can mail them together.
The list will have to wait for a few weeks as this is a very busy time of year. Between us, we have some great older HTs.
I would think that any rose that does well for us in Northern CA, will do very well for you.
And of course, we will have to visit the adoptees to see how you are taking care of them.

Carol
(Rose Protection Service)

Montana used to be close to lawless except for the more serious offenses described in the Ten Commandments. I loved it.
There's something about leaving your keys in your car and never locking your door. It was actually considered an insult to take your keys out of your car. We thought nothing of it to come out of the grocery store and find somebody had moved our car because of a delivery or something.
It just was. The bunny rabbits used to run down Main Street at sunset and nobody said, "Oh My God. The bunny rabbits are running down the road at sunset."
I suspect that if you get to studying the Italians they have a code which finds little use for bothering people over the superfluous.
I myself feel so over-regulated that life is just a continual hassle, trying to shut up one edict after another.
Of course, today is tax day.

Carol,
I hate to say it in the face of such a generous offer, but I am going to come down on the side of the forces of law and order, and not take cuttings with me to Italy. I certainly do most heartily appreciate your and Luanne's offer of help! Thank you both! If you could send me the names of promising roses that you and Luanne grow, that you think might do well here, that would be decidedly helpful. Niels and I are going to work together on a list of roses to order from the U.S., and with suggested names I can go looking in Europe as well.
I think you and Luanne already know that you'll be welcome if you make it over to Italy and want to come to us for a visit. You'd be doing me a favor, in fact, by allowing me to share my garden. I think it's a beautiful place, and I have no one--NO ONE--to share it with. It kills me. Frustration, thy name is loneliness.
I never did get answer your response to my earlier thread "Paying the price", though I had meant to, so let me do that now. I think your climate in northern California is probably similar to what I knew in Olympia, Washingon: mild, wet from fall to spring, and with dry summers. Oddly, it was in famously wet western Washington that I began to think about water thrifty gardening, on account of the dry summer weather. I found out that roses did just fine without additional summer water; I learned to use a mulch; I realized that plants have their periods of growth that coincide with the rainy season of their place of origin. I brought all these ideas with me to Italy and have been developing them ever since. I'll get in touch with you privately about your publication, and thanks for the offer! It will be interesting to see if it has any tricks that I haven't thought up yet, because when we go on drought regimen we are very conscientiously stingy.
I'm wondering what plants you have that you're worried about in case of drought. Do you have acidophile plants? Offhand, those are the ones I would imagine to be thirstiest. There is a long list of noble plants that do well in dry summers, many of them classics of the English garden: many roses, viburnums, peonies, box, yew, lavender, rosemary, and other Mediterranean sub-shrubs, buddleia, barberry, clematis (are you surprised at that one? I was), spring-blooming bulbs, lilacs, privet, sarcacocca, daphne, tall bearded iris; and I could probably come up with more. I have the huge advantage of clay soil that holds water forever, and naturally some of these plants need the cooler, shadier, and moister parts of the garden, while others thrive in good drainage and a baking sun.

Kaylah,
I understand perfectly what you mean. You're talking about a community that has no laws because it doesn't need them: a place in which people know and trust each other to an extent that laws aren't necessary to create a healthy social environment. When I lived with my father for a while in the eighties I didn't have a key to the house, because the house was never locked. Likewise here in our little three family settlement at the end of the road, we don't need to worry if we forget and leave the car keys in the ignition or go on a walk without locking the house. By "lawlessness" I mean something different. I'm talking about a widespread contempt for the law and for the civil order and safety of individuals that laws are, theoretically at least, designed to protect. Lawlessness means people who evade taxes and yet want social services; people who drive drunk and hit other automobiles head on, murdering everyone in the other car and their own, or who don't stop at crosswalks, slaughtering the pedestrians who are trying to the other side of the street; corporate managers who embezzle and lie and drive their company bankrupt, cheating thousands of small investers out of their savings; arsonists who burn up thousands of acres of public forest to get grazing land, uncaring about the people they kill in the process; kids who vandalize schools and cemetaries; Mafia bosses sitting in their cells, plotting deals with the political parties (on both ends of the spectrum) in which they offer the votes they control in exchange for an easing of their prison regimen, which currently aims at preventing them from managing their organizations from inside jail; gang shootouts in the streets of the cities of southern Italy; mountains of garbage in Naples....
perhaps I ought to stop here.
I've seen signs recently that the Italians themselves are getting sick of the situation. One symptom is a recently founded political party called something like the "Party of Italians who have Values", and their party guidelines include not running candidates who have criminal records. They increased their vote respectably in the last elections, and I hope they stick to their priciples.
Perhaps I should add that life in the Bel Paese does have its charms, and its values as well; if I didn't think it was a good place to bring a child up, and to live myself, I wouldn't be here.

Rosariumrob,
Somehow I missed your last message. I'm a collector. The roses that I would like to get from the U.S. are roses that, as far as I know, are not available in Europe, at least not to a private gardener. Last year I bought roses from German and French nurseries, as the selection in Italy is limited, and will continue to do so. I buy rose varieties and grow them in my garden to see how well they conform to my criteria: I'm looking for roses that are beautiful in plant and flower, fragrant, healthy without spraying, able to thrive with low summer water and moderate nutrients, and propagable by cuttings. My dream is to establish a collection of roses with these characteristics that in time can be brought into circulation in Italy, to benefit the gardens of a country that's getting warmer and drier. Italians are in general ignorant of the old roses, of the Teas in particular, and they appear to be rare both in the specialized rose nurseries and as found plants. Italian gardening tradition doesn't favor the use of a great variety of plants, and its nurseries are weak from this point of view compared with countries like England and Germany. Unfortunately the countries with the good collections don't have the climate for growing Teas, Hybrid Giganteas, etc., so these roses are poorly represented there as well. The U.S. is a country with a long history of growing warm climate roses many of which have survived as passalong plants, and there are motivated collectors and curious gardeners aplenty, plus an interest in organic gardening. Naturally it helps that the U.S. is my own country and I know the language and the culture. All these are reasons why I look to the U.S. as a place to find Teas and other roses that meet my criteria.

Melissa