Not legally. The U.S. patent was granted in 1996 so it's still illegal to propagate it unless licensed.

Just so Karl doesn't have to stand alone on this, I'll join him. The only legal way to propagate Molineux, even for your own use, is to transfer about 20 dollars to some guy at a nursery.

Backing up Karl and Mike --

The royalties on a rose are small enough. It's crummy to cheat the variety's creator out of it.
No one's going to arrest you, but it's a sorta low-down thing to do.

Jeri

My 2 cents worth: for personal use (not selling or giving away) it should be legal.

B-U-T that is just my opinion, not the reality. Until 2016 it is ILLEGAL to propagate Molineux.

Plant patents used to expire in 15 years, but a few years ago the law was changed to extend them to 20 years.

Hey Guys!
I meant for myself, make a copy for myself! Thats not illegal is it? If so what about self propagating, seeding plants. Do I kill the seedlings coz I didnt pay for em?

C'MON!!!!

So has anyone done it? Is it easy for molineux?

Hey Guys!
I meant for myself, make a copy for myself! Thats not illegal is it?

*** Yes.
It is.
It is illegal.

It is, in effect, stealing from the rose's creator.
If we want a second one, we go buy it.

If we can't afford to do that, we find an older Yellow, which is out of patent.
It's quite legal to propagate OLD roses.

But to be truthful, if a rose is in commerce, I prefer to buy it, to help support the vendors.
I remember what it was like, when we didn't HAVE vendors who sold old, rare, and hard-to-find roses.

I treasure them. I treasure people who hybridize, and give us new wonderful roses.
I won't steal from them.

Jeri

Seedlings are completely different story. Each sreedling is a different rose and there is no patent on it. You can have as many seedlings as you wish.It is Legal.
Olga

The answers you got above were all talking about asexual propagation, like if you root or graft a Molineux cuttings.
Olga

I rooted Molineux once. I only took two or three cuttings, and one rooted. Not a nice sample to draw conclusions upon, but at least I know it roots.

It is legal to propagate patented plants for personal use in the EU. However, I find it easier to buy plants :-) And I do agree that it is better to buy plants so the hybridizer is rewarded for his efforts to breed a new and interesting rose variety.

Rob

I prefer to buy the actual plant than to propagate it.
Propagation requires patience and time which I don't really have.

Most roses are PBR Protected.

Interesting, when I looked up PBR, it states:

" Unauthorised Commercial Propagation or any sale, conditioning, export, import or stocking of propagating material is an infringement under the Plant Breeders Act 1994."

Notice here, they used the word "Commercial" and didn't mention anything about "Personal" use.

I guess for personal use would be ok. But giving it away to friends etc would breach the rule.

I also like to add... when you plant roses close together, there is a chance they will produce an off-spring due to cross pollination by bees.

I've seen this happened in my old house, and also in the botanical garden.

So would you say that this new plant growing in your gardeen breaches the Act/Rights too?

Wow , what a thread!Well I dont mean to steal from any grower but ..

Jerijen/others,
Are you saying that if I do the asexual (cutting, rooting, etc)reproduction of molineux it is illegal?

But it is legal to somehow extract seeds from the flowers and start new plants?

Jerijen/others,
Are you saying that if I do the asexual (cutting, rooting, etc)reproduction of molineux it is illegal?
But it is legal to somehow extract seeds from the flowers and start new plants?

*** That is correct.

In fact, for the most part, the metal name tags most roses come with specify that ASEXUAL reproduction of the rose is illegal.
If you have any doubt, contact David Austin Roses, and ask them how they feel about it.
This is much like making extra copies of the DVD you just bought.
You'll see that the warning on these is very, very specific.
But if you want to hire the actors, and the equipment, and write a script, you are at liberty to make your own film, even one on the same subject.

Jeri

Roses do not cost so much that I would jeopardize that restless night I would have worrying about taking a dollar from someone else who had worked hard to earn it, but that's just me.

Asexual propagation, e.g. rooting or grafting material from an existing rose, will give you the exact same plant as the mother plant from which you took the propagation material, making it a genetically identical clone (unless mutations, small or large, happen). Like the sheep Molly. Hence the legal protection, it's just like a copyright on the reproduction rights of an existing text, picture, film etc.

Sexual propagation of roses on the other hand will never give you the exact same plant like the mother and father plant (even if it's both parents in one). It's just like having kids who may be similar to you and your partner but certainly not identical. And of course, sexual reproduction is a natural process. The only exception among roses, I believe, are species roses which usually reproduce sexually identical. They may be genetically less variable/more stable. But since they're are of natural origin and not hybridized (note the word) by humans, there's no legal protection of their propagation of any kind.

Legally speaking, you may asexually propagate any rose which does not have a patent that protects it, including those whose patent has expired.

Andrea

Here is a list of Austin roses introduced 20 years before and are 'open season' for propagating.

Here is a link that might be useful: 20-year list

With all the work that goes into producing a rose that is ready for market (to say nothing of the work that goes into the hundereds of "failures"), the only ethical course I see is to respect a hybridizer's patent rights.

I do wish there was a way for a private individual to directly pay a fee to a hybridizer for the privilege of asexually reproducing a patented rose for non-commercial purposes. But I'm unaware of any such program.

As a side note. I have a metal tag (such as Jeri mentioned) on an Austin rose 'Fair Bianca' which in very explicit terms states the illegality of asexually reproduction. The only thing is, the rose was released in 1982, mine were a gift in 2005, three years AFTER patent protection was no longer in effect(to the best of my knowledge). I'd prefer fair play all around.

Bill (who hates that his 'Fair Bianca' is grafted to sucker-mad Dr Huey rootstock)

But it is legal to somehow extract seeds from the flowers and start new plants?

Noone answered this question.

Carla

propagation from seed = sexual reproduction = legal. The plants obtained from seed will not be 'Molineux' but a new hybrid which you may name and patent if you choose.

no sex = illegal

sex = legal!

I like it.

Bill -- They probably had a lot of those tags on hand, and went right on using them.
Why buy new?
=========

Buford.
You got it! I like it too. :-)

Jeri

Buford, that's the best way to put it all day. LOL

LOL Buford!

Carla, to answer you question directly. Yes you can collect seeds and start new roses. But what you need to realize is that even self-pollinated roses will be distinct from the parent plant.

Crossing any rose with "itself" yields an altogether "different" rose. Molineux X Molineux will not equal more Molineux. It may (or may not) be "similar", but this creation would be a new variety of your own.

In my collection I have one rose 'Oshun' which is the work of Paul Barden. Oshun a cross of the Austin rose Abraham Darby with itself. It bears some similarities to its parent, but has qualities all its own. And Mr Barden's decision to cross a rose with itself is not only legal, but a fully respected method of producing a new rose by the rose-hybridizing community.

Hope this helps,

Bill

LOL Buford! Got the birds and bees on your brain?

Cheers,
Michelle

spring fever baby!!

MAny years ago I had some beautiful pink Zinnias----

I wanted more so I saved the seeds and had a nice crop of zinnias the next year but they were not PINK---

When I asked my son---(a gardener) why I didn't get more pink zinnias his answer was ( with a big grin on his face)---"whos da daddy ???"---LOL LOL LOL
Of course that had never entered my mind---LOL LOL

I agree with respecting the patent on a rose.

Florence

I guess I got carried away:)

I was going to say that we should be able to clone Patrick if we wanted to.

Hi Buford!
Very funny LOL!

So what is "self pollination" in your books ?! LOL LOL !!
What if my molineux feels lonely? HA HA HA! well...is it illegal ? LOL

I have seen this post often over the years. While I see no problem in rooting a cutting for myself, I don't do this. Once, I tried to root what I thought was a sport of Magic Lantern. It rooted but wasn't a sport. I kept it. I guess the rose police could charge me. I also inadvertently rooted a Morden Blush. It grew from a tiny pruning left on the ground all winter. Someone on the forums here told me I should kill it.
Really, new roses are so inexpensive, when you compare them to daylilies, that can go up to or over $200 the first year introduced. Why not just pay the $, as has been said. Roses are not as easy to hybridize as dayliies, which are much easier to propagate. Patenting daylilies would be really futile.
Just my silly 2 cents.
Kathy

A sport is open game. You can patent or register it as long as you state it's a sport of a particular rose. Until it's patented it can be propagated.

So last year when my Ebb Tide sported some white flowers, I could have propogated it and registered it? I'm hoping it happens again this year.

I don't have to worry. I wouldn't do it. I'm not that great at propagating.

Carla

Interesting to see the difference Rob pointed out. Here in Europe it is LEGAL to propagate a rose for PERSONAL USE.

Sometimes I have seen Austins reproduce themselves asexully, when some of the canes go ownroot. So I think some Austins in America violates the law all by themselves!

I was going to say the same thing, carla. But maybe it will work by pure accident.

Patented roses that propagate themselves should be shovel pruned!!!

And then there is one of my The Mayflower which produces sucker children. It is not easy to just throw them in the trash. I have replanted one just to see how it grows. I don't feel too guilty since I paid DA full price for 3 of The Mayflower plants.

Yep, sp, easy to say. But only WE, and no one else, know what we would do, if a tiny twig propagated itself.

Kathy, who overall, considers herself a pretty honest person

Buford and all,
The sport must be stable. Many revert back to the original. You'd have to propagate in a couple of times to make sure.