Home Run (child of Knock Out) gets to 4' tall and it is a real red.

I saw Home Run at Lowes last year and the one's they had were very small red flowers. I was not too impressed but not sure as the bush gets bigger it might just look great..I love the red color!!! I might have to rethink this one...

Ingrid Bergman will be too short for what you want. Mine only gets to about 2 feet tall. Black Magic is taller, but it has no scent, and I'm not sure what kind of bush form it is going to have.

Take a look at Dublin Bay-- registered as a climber but can be grown as a shrub. It's a beautiful red to my eyes. I know what you mean about the color of Knock-Out. I planted Champlain last year-- beautiful plant, foliage, blooms, the whole package. Does get some BS but seems to outgrow it (& we're very bad for BS here due to coastal humidity).

I'll put in my two cents for the climbing red rose upon which I decided - 'Illusion'. It has fragrance (though not overpowering), remontancy, disease resistance, and even resistance to japanese beetles.

Next year's red (reddish) rose is destined to be 'Laguna'.

Geo, why do you think Illusion is resistant to JBs? I am sorry, but this is just not true. Only plastic roses are resitant to JBs. JBs love my Illusion, blooms and leaves.
Olga

I read it somewhere - now I'll have to find out.

I thought they were partial to your Rose de Rescht?

Lavaglut is an excellent red bush but so far mine does not shoot to go over 3'. If you consider Ingrid Bergman, I would suggest you to look at Royal William aka Duftzauber. Mine grows to 6-7' so it must be over 4' even in a colder zone.
Very few photos of this rose on HMF match the real color of the rose, it is deep dark red with no hint of orange or pink.

The color of the rose on Kordes' website is correct though not very good. Palatine also offers it and Pickering should also have it.

Apropos, Palatine has Grande Amore and this red has ADR certificate that should mean that it is disease free or very disease resistant.

Here is a link that might be useful: Palatine roses

Here it is:

Illusion Comment

Comment: I have grown plants of Illusion since the early 70's at two different locations in northern Ohio. I have found it to have beautiful red, very double, and relatively large flowers. It is also a continual bloomer, blackspot- and mildew-free (without spraying), and relatively hardy (here in a normal zone 5b winter, -10 to -15 degrees F, only the tips show any winter injury). A very important point, in northern Ohio, is that the Japanese Beetles ignore it! Illusion occupies the premier location in my front yard - it surrounds the lamp post. In Modern Roses 10 Illusion is described as a Kordesii (the second parent has never been disclosed) shrub that was hybridized in 1961 by Kordes. "Flowers blood-red to cinnabar, dbl., large blooms in large clusters; fragrant; foliage leathery, glossy, light green; vigorous growth." In Wilhelm Kordes book, Roses, Reinhold Publishing Corporation, page 195 (1964) Illusion is described as having flowers that are large, full, well-formed with wild rose fragrance. The blooms are about 3 inches across and appear in clusters of up to 8 individual florets. The time of flowering is early, and the habit of growth is upright with good branching. He recommends it as a pillar, hedge, and/or specimen shrub. It can reach a height of 10 feet. It is free flowering and resistant to disease. In the 1965 Rose Annual of the British National Rose Society, Wilhelm Kordes wrote an article titled "The History of Rosa kordesii, Wulff". In the article he states: "We brought out Illusion in 1961. It is a really rich deep blood red, very free flowering and an upright grower, with the scent of the dog rose." Roy Genders in his book, The Rose, A Complete Handbook, Bobbs-Merrill Company publisher, page 440, (1965) stated the following about Illusion: "A most arresting climber with its huge trusses of fragrant flowers of exotic cinnabar-red which are borne all along the stems to a height of 8 - 9 ft." The University of Minnesota Agricultural Experiment Station published, in 1995, a 92-page report Roses for the North (item number ESMR-6594-SKID, cost $11.95 plus $3.50 shipping and handling, Minnesota Extension Service, 415 Coffey Hall, 1420 Eckles Ave, Saint Paul, MN 55108-6068). Illusion was one of the roses evaluated. For bloom pattern Illusion is reported to have heavy June bloom, slight July rebloom, and moderate August/September rebloom. For comparison this is the same bloom pattern reported for Dortmund, Henry Kelsey, and William Baffin. For winter injury Illusion was found to have dieback to the snow line, to the ground, and to the snow line for the winters of 1988-89, 1989-90, and 1990-91 respectively (remember the tests were done in zone 4a where the minimum winter temperatures are in the range of - 25 and -30 degrees F). This was the same as reported for Dortmund, Alchymist, Bonica, and for the hybrid rugosa, Hunter. In the section on diseases, Illusion did not exhibit any blackspot, powdery mildew, leaf spots, or rust during the two years of the study. Unfortunately in the section on insect observations, none of the Kordesiis were listed. Illusion does set hips. The seeds are relatively easy to germinate. I am very impressed with the seedlings that I have grown. All of the flowers have been double, and all but one (a pink) have been a rich red. Since the oldest seedlings are only two years old, it is too soon to know what type (climber, shrub, etc.) they will be. I am now trying to cross Illusion and William Baffin with the hope of obtaining a climber with the hardiness of William Baffin and the flower of Illusion. I would suggest that crosses of Illusion with red hybrid teas be made in an attempt to increase the fragrance and/or hardiness and/or disease resistance and/or the insect resistance of the red hybrid tea class. It is not often one can hope for four possible improvements from one cross! According to the 1996 issue of the Combined Rose List by Beverly R. Dobson and Peter Schneider (available for $18.00 plus $1.50 shipping USA from Peter Schneider, Post Office Box 677, Mantua, Ohio 44255) Illusion is only available from seven nurseries worldwide. In the USA it is available from Vintage Gardens, 2227 Gravenstein Hwy. South, Sebastopol, CA 95472 and (by custom propagation only) from Heritage Rosarium, 211 Haviland Mill Road, Brookeville, MD 20833. In Canada it is available from Pickering Nurseries, 670 Kingston Road, Pickering, Ontario L1V 1A6 (they do ship to the USA). It is also available from Grady's Roses in England, Roseraies Guillot in France, Pepinieres Louis Lens s.a. in Belgium, and Szalkai Kerteszet in Hungary.

George, how long have you been growing Illusion? The phtos I've seen are fabulous! Yet the sources listed are very few. I'm always a little leery of roses which hardly any nurseries offer. And apparently it was never even assigned (FWIW) an ARS rating? BTW hmf lists Hortico as a source for this rose. I oughta order it from them as I'd like to grow it when I retire...a few years from now.. LOL!

Geo, JBs will eat every rose if there are in great numbers. It all depends on how many JBs you have in your area. It looks like Ohio has less JBs them my area. That is all this report says to me. JBs really don't discriminate after certain point. Yes, RdR was their favorite, but other roses get eaten too. It is like steak and oatmeal, not your first choice, but if you are hungry you will it too:)
Another good repeat blooming red is Quadra, very disease resistant and blooms non stop.
Olga

Griff's Red is the best red Buck rose. It should get at least 4'.

1. Source for Illusion - Vintage, in CA.
2. I suppose the standard disclaimer is YMMV. Another book
I read (which I'm not going to type in, because I'd have
to type it in) makes the same point, attributing this to
the Rosa Canina (dog rose) background of Illusion.
And even if YMMV, I would suspect that the climate in PA
is more akin to that of Ohio than that of Southern MD.
3. Quadra is disease resistant and floriferous, and is
closer to the vaunted "plastic rose" status, as it has no
fragrance. My perspective on that is, if no fragrance,
why bother? But then, if you like Knockout roses,
perhaps Quadra would be a logical choice for you.
4. I find Japanese beetles prefer the white grape leaves to
the purple. If you're looking for a fruit consider:

Blueberry, Blackberry, Currant (go with white, black, or
clove-bird considerations), wineberry, aronia, fig, gumi,
goji (the only fruit you really need-it has everything),
jujube, autumn olive, nanking bush cherry.
5. I'm intrigued with the idea of Griff's Red and have
seriously been considering it to go along with my other
Buck roses (Applejack, Quietness, Country Dancer and
Earthsong).

I would recommend Cesar E. Chavez and Veterans Honor and Pride of England if you are looking for a good repeating and heavy blooming red HT rose. All three do very well in my northwest Missouri garden. POE is especially floriferous and every flush from it last year had a minimum 25 blooms on it every time. Even my neighbors across the street have commented to me on how beautiful this rose is when in bloom. It also makes a very good bush even without flowers as the foliage is nice and thick all the way from the ground level to the very top.
John