You're welcome! It's not odd that cooler zones will report more fragrance from many than warmer areas. Those in the cooler places are probably smelling them when the oils and alcohols are most volatile and smell the most. We in the warmer areas often miss out because they evaporate faster as the heat increases. Also, as aridity increases, the scents burn out faster. The various components of each rose's fragrance evaporate at different rates, so one may smell very Damask at first, quickly morphing into orris or citrus, finishing a completely different scent before losing any detectable trace for the day. Any user can access the Advanced Search, but Premium Membership permits you to specify multiple traits and types, where basic membership only provides Advanced Search using one criteria. Kim

I have had an Epiphany. Here is what Malcolm Manners had to say about this Noisette rose at the "Please wax poetically over Maréchal Niel" thread. "We grow the "clone" (I hate that word, since the entire variety is a clone; maybe we should say "selection") of MN that was found by Greg Grant, in Texas, years ago -- a very vigorous one that tests free of virus disease. We graft it to 'Fortuniana' roots. That combination makes the most vigorous rose we've ever grown -- easily 15 feet per year, and it will cover whatever structure you put it on. Definitely house-eater category. At it's best, it is an amazingly beautiful rose. But in our humid climate, it balls for quite a lot of the year, and has severe thrips injury at other times. So it's not always beautiful. It's pretty good right now. It's other fault is that it is the most unforgiving of pruning of any rose I've ever seen. We grow it on an 8x8x8 foot arbor with two benches underneath. To keep it tidy on that structure, we have tried to give it a "haircut" a foot or so above the 8' roof. Doing so sometimes kills the plant to the ground. So on those occasions when we simply must prune it, we make sure there are replacement plants coming along in the greenhouse, just in case. What I try to do instead is to remove wayward branches one at a time, so the plant won't "notice" on any one day that it's been pruned. That seems to work." Until just this moment I used to have major MN envy because of the fascinating history behind the rose not to mention the brilliant canary yellow color, loosely quartered flower form, large nodding blooms, powerful fragrance, and unusual drooping foliage. Not anymore. So the skinny is that MN only grows well unprotected in hot climates, has problems with the flowers balling, has no vigor unless grafted on Fortuniana, and dies back significantly (to the point of death) if more than one cane is pruned. I've even read a few reports that the black spot resistance isn't as bulletproof as previoiusly thought. Lets be honest. Does this sound like a GOOD rose to you? Frankly I'll take GRAHAM THOMAS or THE PILGRIM anyday over this Fuss-Diva-from-Hades Noisette. At least they grow well on their own roots, are hardy over a greater climatic range, and don't faint if cut back to contain their vigorous growth. BTW, I officially apologize for all the enabling that I've done in the name of Maréchal Niel. Image of MN by riku posted at the wax poetically thread.

Thank you, Organic_tosca and Ingrid for this discussion on fragrance, I learn something new. Hi Diane: My Austins bloom much better this year by withholding nitrogen, and give sulfur to most of them (except for the ones that like it alkaline). Radio Times is a compact short bush ... always blooming. Last year it was a twice bloomer with giant octopus canes. The rose park nearby have Austins grafted on Dr. Huey. There's a big decline over the years, even with perfect soil, plenty of rain and expertise. They bloom less and less progressively. Last year there was only one bloom on Abraham Darby in rainy fall, then I don't see Ab. Darby anymore this year. I kept wondering why my "Bolero" as own-root blooms so much next to 2-trees, now I understand ... after digging up Dr. Huey, Dr. Huey plus own-root, and own-root. Own-roots can spread out, or "sucker" better, an advantage for most efficient-water uptake, water can be gathered from many points. It's easier for water to flow into horizontal spreading roots, rather than go up a vertical stick (Dr. Huey), then fight against gravity to go upward through a constricting bud-union. This bud-union can deteriorate in my -20 below zero winter, or sitting in warehouses drying-out for months.

FWIW, Jax, I think the mystery is already solved. It's my bet that the rose is the vigorous climbing Tea, 'E. Veyrat Hermanos'. After commenting here earlier, I visited HMF to re-check the info available on 'Kaiserin Friedrich'. There, I found this 2004 entry by Marion Brandes in the "Member Comments" section: " . . . Color Plate contained in Old Rose Advisor I propagated this rose from the very old climber adjacent to the Fanek's Nursery in San Antonio in the mid-90's and made it available to Texas Rose Rustler's, after identifying it with the Old Rose Advisor." I interpret that as meaning that Brandes's identification of the Fanek Nursey rose as 'Kaiserin Friedrich' was based SOLELY on a viewing of a very small reproduction of an antique color plate (Plate 196 in Dickerson's "The Old Rose Advisor). That, indeed, is a very flimsy bit of evidence upon which to base a firm pronouncement of identification. The petal-packed blooms of 'E Veyrat Hermanos' vary radically in color -- sometimes almost solid ivory/apricot, sometimes blended with pink, & sometimes (usually in cool weather) showing a vivid, almost neon pink center surrounded by a narrow ruff of ivory petals. It's the latter coloration that must have led to the "Pink Marechal Niel" misnomer. While the color blend of 'Kaiserin Friedrich' is similar to that of EVH, hers is much more delicate and subtle -- and never neon pink. On the HMF photo pages for KF, there are 7 photos (plus 3 artist renderings). Of those 7, I think only 1 is actually a photo of KF (the photo from a German source). All of the remaining 6 are photos of the Fanek Nursery foundling -- 2 submitted by Marion Brandes, and 4 of a plant provided to M. Orwat by Greg Grant of the Texas Rose Rustlers. IMO those 6 are photos of EVH. My advice to Sabalmatt, Alameda & anyone else who purchased Pink MN at the SFA plant sale: Provide it with a large, very sturdy support and give it lots of space. I think it was the Aussie authors of the recent Tea Rose book who called EVH a "rose thug" that will take over whatever garden space the gardener will allow. Another indication of EVH's lust for life is the fact that cuttings of it are very easy to root. But, trust me -- you'll want only one in your garden.