This is a tricky question that has no absolute answers. One of the most important things to consider is that invasiveness is directly related to location, climate and topography - what is considered invasive in one area may behave perfectly well in another. Your example of burning bush/winged euonymus (Euonymus alatus) is a perfect case - a documented invasive in much of the Northeast and parts of the midwest, but quite harmless in some other areas of the country, where it is still an immensely popular landscape shrub. Same with Japanese barberries, butterfly bush (Buddleia), Scotch broom, nandina, pampas grass, etc.

Most states have some sort of invasive species council that monitors and reports on plant (and animal) species that are acknowledged invasives in that area. Some have legal requirements governing their sale and control, others just recommend not planting. The best offer alternative suggestions. In very few cases (Massachusettes being one) are the plants actually banned from sale. Ultimately it is up to the horticulture industry and individual gardeners to research, offer and select plants that are appropriate and non-threatening to their specific location.

That picture looks like it could be in the south ... except the green plants would be chinese privet!

Yes, I agree that controls should mostly be at the state level. It seems like there should be some plants (like Kudzu) that should be at the national level - I'm not aware of anyone that plants it for ornamental reasons ... but then perhaps no one sells it either?

Here is Georgia, E. alata is just starting to exhibit a bit of invasiveness. When grown by one person, there will occasionally be volunteers of it within several hundred feet.

Chinese privet is the worst here and yet it is still sold (mostly in a variegated form). Japanese privet is starting to become a problem and yet recently is enormously popular in new landscapes. Nandina is becoming a problem and is popular too, but there are newer non-fruiting cultivars.

The one reason these 3 plants are popular? They are all evergreen here; with homes being built on smaller and smaller lots, evergreen screening plants are more and more in demand.

Hi gardengal....I can understand that a plant can be invasive in one area and not in another. For instance, Butterfly Bush, I understand has become a pest in some parts of the country, but here in Massachusetts, you often have a hard time overwintering one in zone 5 or colder. I am in zone 6 and I never have seen even one seedling in my garden in 8 years I have been growing it. So, if that is the case for Euonymous, that in other areas, it doesn't reseed, then I would feel better. But I have a difficult time understanding how it would be a problem in the colder Northeast but not in warmer areas. You would think it would seed more readily in warmer environments. It makes me wonder if the reason it hasn't become a problem in other states, is that they are just starting to use the shrub more and it hasn't had a chance yet to become a significant problem.

When I look at the photos of Euonymous in this post, I have to wonder, who is going to get into that area and rip all those shrubs out? Maybe no one, so maybe whatever was growing before that might be lost for good, if left that way for too long. Such a huge job, once it becomes that bad. It just doesn't make sense that it has to become that bad a problem before it even makes it onto the lists.

I wonder if it would be more helpful, instead of just pointing out to each other that this plant or that plant may be on the invasive list, it might help more, to focus on the positive and really share as many ideas as possible about the alternative shrubs that could be part of the solution. Going along with the idea for this post, that often, a picture is worth a thousand words, maybe if we could all share more photos of great shrubs in our gardens that are beneficial and fill the same need as some of the plants that are known to have become problems.

Six years ago, we didn't have a native shrub in our garden. We had the usual standard fare, Spireas, old overgrown Taxus, Forsythia, some actual Honeysuckle bushes, that I heard were a problem. They were neglected and overgrown and in more shade than they could prosper in, so we ripped them all out. Now I count at least 8 native shrubs and I didn't know what I was missing. :-) I am enjoying them very much and can't wait until they reach full maturity. This year was my third season with what began as a small Clethra 'Hummingbird'. This year it really looked very attractive after all the rain we had this season and was full of flowers and fragrant to boot. What surprised me, was how much I love the foliage! Something about the dark color and the texture that I find very appealing and just doesn't even show up in a photo. I'm sorry I don't have a better photo, maybe someone else does?

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I know there are quite a few people on this forum who have added natives to their gardens and I'm sure we would all love to see more photos if anyone has some to share.

:-)
pm2

Perhaps not all burning bush is of the Euonymus Alata variety? And it's not included on any invasive list here in Minnesota and presents no particular problem in the way that lythrum salicaria and buckthorn do. It is
illegal here to import, sell, offer for sale, or distribute the seeds or plants of those two scourges in any form.

Whatever variety of burning bush I have two of (which were planted in the early 70's) have never thrown out a volunteer. In fact, the only thing they seem to do is color up quite nicely in the late fall; I don't think I've ever seen them set fruit.

I assume the poster asking about the spacing of arborvitae and burning bush (and any problems with them) sparked this. Maybe I tend to look at the gardening world through rose colored glasses, but any plant on a state's invasive list should be nearly impossible to find for sale within that state and would seem likely that mail order plant operations would be aware of what can and cannot be shipped to various states.

The fruit on our old Euonymus was very small and you wouldn't notice it if you weren't looking for it. You normally would notice at least a couple of seedlings in the vicinity though, so perhaps you do have a different cultivar?

I would have thought that steps that have been taken would have already reduced if not eliminated invasive plants from being sold but I guess it is not always so simple. In my travels this morning, I did come across an article reporting that online sales continue unchecked, which there is some plan in the works to crack down on.

pm2

duluthinbloomz4, perhaps you are thinking of another Euonymus besides E. alatus? Euonymus atropurpureus (Eastern Wahoo also called Burning Bush)is a native species.

The seed pods are noticeably different between those two species.

Thanks, and yes, I know there are different varieties of burning bush. Euonymus atropurpurea is native here.

The only point I was trying to make - and probably not very well - was that every time a post mentions burning bush, a general alarm goes out as to its invasiveness. In some areas maybe it is, but not necessarily all.

What many of us - me included - sometimes forget is that we all have access to different plant material; our gardens and the techniques we use to tend them are all different; our climates, microclimates, soil conditions, watering conditions, sun and shade conditions are all different. Even the preferred tastes of our wildlife is different. Much of what we type should be prefaced by "it's been my experience that..."

Even deers wouldn't eat them, so they are everywhere here:-((
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Listings of major eastern wholesale growers still dominated by offerings that have proven to be sometimes serious weeds in the region. New kinds of Norway maple, burning bush and so on down the list continue to be selected, produced and promoted. Such operations are of course liable to choose those kinds that grow readily in large numbers in their fields, appeal visually to consumers and are able to tolerate the conditions of the distribution and retailing network. As with other commodity areas if the market does not unite in rejecting the undesirable products and government does not step in and have them taken off the market, then these continue to be offered.

duluthinbloom....I think I am seeing the point you are trying to make, but I am seeing it from a different perspective. I know that until I really paid attention, I did not realize I was contributing to the problem. I was not having a struggle with seedlings from my Euonymous and it had not occurred to me that birds could be bringing the seeds a lot farther away than my backyard and creating a problem in someone else's backyard and into wild areas. So I have concluded that sometimes my 'own experience' is insulated and doesn't tell the whole story, if I were not up to date on what is happening with these invasives. Yes, I did respond to the person who posted that they were considering using Euonymous because they did not have any designation of what part of the country they were from.

bboy made the point I was trying to make. [thanks :-)] If the shrub is still being grown and sold even in areas that it is a problem, then it is the consumer that has to take responsibility to know what are problem shrubs and avoid them and find something else to love that isn't a problem. I was trying to be supportive of people's efforts to do that by offering a thread that could highlight the shrubs that are a good alternative.

Ego...are those photos of woods near your house? Wow, what a shame!

Someone here had some Itea 'Henry's Garnet', some Fothergilla 'Mt Airy', which are gorgeous this time of year, any photos?

Thanks :-)

My fothergilla is just now coloring, perhaps a picture in a few days. My itea suffered from our drought conditions and most of them lost some leaves.

Mapleleaf viburnum (and many native viburnums in general)can have really nice fall color. Viburnum nudum is another one. Also, native blueberries turn a spectacular shade of red - they can really rival burning bush.

I couldn't resist taking this picture a week or two ago at an empty lot. Developers half cleared what was a wooded lot a few years ago and look what showed up!

It is colorful...

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Last year I removed 2 from my yard and this year 3 more and I now have no more. They were one of the first plants I purchased when I started landscaping here about 15 years ago. I distinctly remember buying 3 on sale for $5 each. They were the "Plant Special of the Week". I was very impressed with my great purchase!! It took them a few years to get good color and I patiently waited.

Then it wasn't too long when I was coppicing them every year. What a pain. The seedlings they generated underneath them were immense. I still find an escaped growing seedling now and then that I rip out with pleasure. I am amazed how far away from the host plant they escape.

Thanks Wendy for adding your experience. I will have to keep my eyes open next time I am driving around town. I thought you had some nice native shrubs, Wendy, no?

We have been moving shrubs around and nothing is photo ready this fall, but next year I should have a couple.

Ego...you have a couple of gorgeous Oakleaf Hydrangeas, how about even an old photo of them?

pm2

There are good native alternatives for fall color - Viburnum nudum, Fothergilla gardenii, Itea virginica, Ilex verticillata for berries, Calycanthus, small trees Oxydendron arboreum, Amelanchier canadensis, Hydrangea quercifolia... most non, or occasional - gardening people I talk to are not knowledgeable, or don't care to know, about the invasive factor. It peeves me when I go the local nurseries around here and see them still selling E.alata. There was an improvement this season at the local big garden center, having an area devoted to natives, with a noticeable sign posted in the corral of plants. I personally believe though that it's hard to change the mindset of a lot of nursery owners from selling E. alata, dealing with a lot of clientele who don't know what they're doing, other than knowing how to water, and even that's not well understood. All the owners hear are 'how long is the plant warranted for?' E. alata is pretty hard to kill, and who wants a lot of clients coming asking for their $ back. jmho....
I hope more people will educate themselves about the importance of planting natives and read Doug Tallamy's book before starting anything in their yards.
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Here is a link that might be useful: Bringing Nature Home