Kudzu, the battle has not been lost, just a different battleground. Anyone here over 40 will remember growing up where the bottom was stamped with "made in Japan". We got fed up, starting producing more here, and our economy grew by leaps and bounds. The original poster is right. Our economy is in the toilet because of big box stores, Nafta, and of course the war. Start buying "Made in USA" and in my opinion, the economy will grow again.

Now, having said all that, the HFGH is a cheap alternative to a made in USA one. I even bought one, put it together and quickly got rid of it. I have built many of my own, and wanted a quick solution. Well, you get what you pay for.
It's a leaky hose. With lots of duct tape, it can be a decent GH. Better to buy quality if you can afford it though.
Also, I'm not a fan of cancer-causing plastics.

Oops, sorry I wasn't clear. Most of my stuff is over 100 years old (airmore is 1900's, bed & rocking chair,& side table is 1880's) and everything else is pre-1970's...1940's desk & lamp. Arm chair (from Salvation Army) is 1970's, used to be uphostered in bright orange and red flowers :-). However, I went off on a tangent...Sorry!

Redthistle, you should join in here more often!

I did some research. I contacted International Greenhouse Company in Illinois, knowing they carry a large selection of hobby greenhouse kits ICG.

I asked which of their hobby greenhouses were made in the USA. They responded with one name: Garden Grower. With more Googling, I also found that the Sunshine Gardenhouse they carry is made in the USA.

Garden Grower offers a 9x12 steel frame greenhouse, 6mm twinwall polycarbonate glazing, single door, and no roof vents for $4195.00. An optional automatic roof vent system is available for an additional $895.00. (Total $5090.) Ease of construction is rated as difficult, and they donÂt recommend that you build this yourself unless you have construction experience.

Sunshine Gardenhouses are made in Washington. The 8x16 redwood frame greenhouse, twinwall polycarbonate glazing, one door, two roof vents, two base vents, sells for $3918.00.

Other greenhouses carried by ICG are made in Israel (Rion), England (Rhino), Canada (BC), Germany (Riga). So, letÂs say we give up on the American-made idea, and just try to avoid one possibly made in China. Of these brands, the lowest price I could find for a greenhouse close to 10x12 was the 8x12 Rion 40 series (4mm twinwall poly) for $1595, or the 8x16 for $1995.

I know that some folks here have had good luck with Rions, but as an aside, IÂm currently watching a thread in another internet forum about two owners of new Rion greenhouses; both are in the third week of assembly. Defective parts have been replaced by the manufactuer, but shipped in wrong quantities; parts manufactured in different runs (shipped in the same kit) will not fit together, even when so much force is applied that the parts break. My point is, buying a non-Chinese greenhouse can be an adventure, too.

I donÂt think itÂs currently possible to "spend a little bit more" and buy an American made kit greenhouse. If you can snag a 15% Harbor Freight discount coupon, right now you can pay $612 for a 10x12 Harbor Freight (double doors, four roof vents, 4mm twinwall poly, and no need to hire a professional contractor.) ThatÂs a huge price difference, and it puts the opportunity to own a greenhouse within the reach of many folks who would not otherwise take the plunge.

Just thought some real numbers might be helpful.

Sheri
(happily wearing out her second Jeep Cherokee, in spite of one auto lock and auto window that no longer work.) :-)

Just wait until they see what's involved in sealing the huge gaps where the Rion roof meets the sidewalls and where the caps go on the roof. They can forget Silicone because it wont stick to the plastic. As it cures it lets go. The doors don't seal well either. We both wish we had spent the money on two 10X12 HFGHs and joined them together instead of buying this 8X16' Rion.

I was and still am vehemently opposed to NAFTA but I am all for free trade. Free trade only requires a one sentence agreement and NAFTA is not a free trade agreement. The American worker produces our GNP in 6 mounts time and we can compete with any country if the Governments would just get out of the way. The problem is, none of our trade agreements are free trade agreements. Restrictions of foreign countries on what can be imported and the tariff and duty costs are ridicules. I have seen the cost of American goods in foreign countries and it is unbelievable such as a Ford Focus selling for as much as $35,000.00 in the UK
Three things I would like to see happen is to return to the gold standard, our gutless politicians to renegotiate our trade agreements and a change in attitude of the citizens of this country by paying a little more for a product to get quality and get away from being a throwaway society, and refusing to buy any product that the OEM canÂt guarantee replacement parts for 10 years.
Cheap imports increase my buying power but what kind of jobs will my grandchildren be able to get?

John

What a ship...no wonder 'made in China' is displacing North American goods big time with this floating continent transporting the goods in 4 days no less!!! This is how Wal-Mart among others gets all its stuff from China . Get a load of this ship! 15,000 containers and a 207' beam! And look at the crew-size for a ship longer than a US aircraft carrier which has a complement of 5,000 men and officers.
Think it's big enough? Notice that 207' beam means it was NOT designed for the Panama or Suez Cannal . It is strictly transpacific. Check out the cruise speed: 31 knots means the goods arrive 4 days before the typical container ship (18-20 knots) on a China-to-California run. So this behemoth is hugely competitive carrying perishable goods.
This ship was built in three, or perhaps as many as five sections. The section s floated together and then were welded. The ship is named Emma Maersk. The command bridge is higher than a 10-story building and has 11 crane rigs that can operate simultaneously.



John

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I thought this was a forum about greenhouses, but as others have taken the plunge into politics, so shall I, particularly as I am a polititian and currently hold elected office. As an election official, I track voter participation carefully and believe, as apparently do others here, that the US is on a downward sprial and while we each view issues from our own perspectives, the fact that statistically so few Americans engage in public business may well be the reason for our decline.

When the Founders established our democracy, they did not plan for a political elite; a small group of people who would be elected to Congress, then spend the majority of their time and energy pandering to special interests, only to stay in office in order to reap the rewards of unlimited feeding from the public trough, but that is what our Congress has become.

I too believe NAFTA has proved a disaster, as have so many other like programs, because they rely upon "corporate morality" to succeed and there simply is no such thing. We are still the Naked Apes who will, individually and particularly, collectively; pursue every advantage allowed us and any policy maker who believes otherwise is doomed to disappointment.

Our latest folly may well be our last however. We are trading the basic foods needed to feed our own population for often useless gadgets, and when the US can no longer produce enough of the basic foods necessary to sustain our lives, the end will have come. Anyone who does not believe that should start reading history, starting with ancient Greece. History really does repeat itself, over and over again, because while the specific individuals who create historic events change, the basic human nature that creates them, does not.

We are old now, and will hopefully not live long enough to see the end, but as do others here, I fear greatly for our grandchildren, who will not inherit the Amerian Dream, but a nightmare. What most frightens me is the spectre of food riots, in a nation that is in fact, an armed camp.

Our government is draining our national wealth to "protect" us from foreign threats, while the real danger is within, which may be the ultimate irony. We succeeded in our first revolution much because every man was armed, which encouraged other nations to think we might just pull it off and between our own militia and their solders, we did.

Now, we don't need outside help. Armed Americans outnumber the police and military 10,000 to one- if not more. I'm glad I won't be here to see the results of that disparity when there are 100 hungry & armed to the teeth Americans for each, single loaf of bread.

That boat and the four day transport time are astonishing. This must be how Harbor Freight transports the replacement parts missing from our kits. ;-)

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Image: FreeDigitalPhotos.net

And you tell me how Home Land Security is going to inspect all these?

dcarch

Come on guys--- I'm sure you'll find it hard to find American Made products in Walmart (Sam is rolling over in his grave), but there are companies that make goods here in America. Try the following linkwww.stillmadeinusa.com/

Birdwidow, you're in politics and didn't know our founding fathers didn't form a Democracy?

Come on grngiant---LetÂs talk percentages and trade deficit if you think there isnÂt a major problem.


John

Oregon: You are of course correct. It's a Republic, but one that is still on it's way to H in a basket, as it is sold to the highest bidders by the very people Sworn to preserve and protect it. I guess I'm just old fashoned, but I really do believe that when anyone swears an oath of public office they should mean it, or they are unfit to serve in the least of all local offices, let alone as a member of Congress.

Enough. Back to Greenhouses and Garden Structures- Nice, HONEST subjects.

how about we keep this forum to topics that make us feel good and not ones to make our blood pressure go high. If we can't find a GH made in the USA we can build our own we have that right.

Jeans made in the USA cost $36 according to that webpage. Some of us can't afford that much or wont pay that much. I get my jeans on sale for anywhere from $10 to $14.99 a pair at K-Mart and Wal*Mart. I've also been known to shop the local Goodwill store on 1/2 price day. Recycled like-new jeans for $7 a pair.

Actually, back on track.
Most people would be amazed at how inexpensive it is to build your own Greenhouse. As cheap as the HF? Maybe, and a lot longer lasting. I did one for a lady in Alaska. The bottom 3 ft was cinder blocks. Very inexpensive. The frame was 2x4 cedar. We used glass that a construction company had laying around.
Many of the companies do remodel work and have a terrible time getting rid of old windows. I have never had problems getting glass. Most people probably have about 10 contractors within throwing distance.
The one we built was 10x20. It ran about $1,500 to build.
that was 12 years ago. It looks as good today as the day we built it.
If you attach 2 of the HFGH together, it will be about the same cost with all the extra bracing and foundation.

You will have to excuse me but googoo_dahl was speaking of the liabilities of buying a HFGH a Chinese import. It seems that the owners of HFGHs only want to talk about the assets and not the liabilities. If you only want to consider price, then there are many options available to get a GH environment. If you want to consider the cost, then you must include the price on modifications and repair and the time spent on these activities instead of your hobby, the reason for buying a GH in the first place.


John

What got me started on HFGH issue is the amount of hype they get on this web site considering what they are....cheap not just cheap $$$ but horribly made. Nothing but problems it seems...it's like the guy who bought a Lada because they were cheap but spent a fortune keeping it running and then got a sack of bean s when he sold it.
One more thing....A few years ago there was a big snit on this forum about people promoting greenhouse mfg's. in their posts. Do HFG posts get a pass...I understand there needs to be a "support group" maybe some HFG owners can start their own forum.

Jbest123 the photos of the container ships were awesome.

JohnÂs point is correct about adding in the cost of modifications to the kit. I didnÂt include that in my post above because I was afraid that post was already getting too long, but I should have. To be more accurate, we spent under $100 for the EMT, some aluminum strap, self-drilling screws, and weatherstripping for all the panels. With this, my greenhouse is sturdy and snug.

Googoodahl, IÂm really baffled by the level of emotion you direct toward this particular brand of greenhouse. I canÂt figure out why you started this thread, if you donÂt want more discussion about HFGHÂs here. I'm sure folks that have posted here would have been happy to discuss some other topic.

This has been an eye-opening for me because of the strong feelings. I really hate to see any hard feelings among folks here (this is a very friendly and helpful group, and I feel privileged to post here and benefit from everyoneÂs knowledge.)

My opinion is (and you are welcome to disagree) itÂs a free country, and thereÂs frankly nothing wrong with me walking into a store and purchasing whichever greenhouse I choose to enjoy in my own backyard. Nobody has ever said the Harbor Freight was a top-of-the-line greenhouse, but (my opinion again) it sure does represent a good opportunity for folks who are willing to work with the strengths of the kit, and correct the flaws.

Really folks, IÂm not trying to undermine the future of America, IÂm just trying to grow cacti.

IÂll close with some shots of how it looks today in my cheap, horribly made Chinese greenhouse. ;-)

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As you can tell, IÂm having nothing but problems here. ;-)

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I sincerely hope everyone here has a good day, and may all your greenhouse hours be happy ones. Mine are!
Sheri

mudhouse


IÂm not specifically speaking of the HFGH, there are many GHs that are built similar and may be an excellent choice for some parts of the country. If I lived very far north (snow load) from where I live or in the mid west (wind) I donÂt think I would own a GH of any manufacture. Where I do live, $100 worth of any material wouldnÂt buy me very much insurance against disaster. I wonder at times, how many people there are that has had a disaster with any kind of GH and have simply given up on there hobby and we donÂt hear from them.


John

ps: Nice photos

Thanks John! :-)

Hey Sheri, I can tell all your Cacti are made in China. [kidding! :-) ]
Impressive setup!

This topic of course is emotional for many people, especially if your job is gone because of imports. I appreciate eveyone has been carried on the discussion with respect for each other.

Colin Powell said yesterday, we have an alarming disaster with our failing educational situation. Very urgent action is needed.

You can buy American all you want. It's not going to work. Please send your kids to engineering school, quick!

dcarch

dcarch, you have no idea how hard it is to pull all those little "made in china" stickers off the cactus spines, either. Takes me forever! ;-)

Ha, Ha, Ha! I like your sense of humor. Definitely made in the USA humor.

My dream:

I want to open up a giftshop in China Town, in which everything is made in the USA. :-)

dcarch

BTW, You are a very good photographer. Admit it!

Thank you dcarch, but I'm really not that good a photographer. The plants make it easy, and the rest of the credit should go to my old Sony cam...er...um...oops...
never mind.

googoo_dahl,

Just asking a few simple questions,

As you posted on here I assume you have some sort of computer or access to one,

Where was your mouse made?
Where was your keyboard made?
Where was your display made?
Where was the power cord to the computer made?
Where was the computer assembled?
Where were 99% of the components in the computer made?

Get the idea? there is more...

Where was your chair made?
Where was your desk made?
Where was your desk lamp made?
Where were your blank CDs made?
Where was the light bulb in your lamp made?

Take a really good look at all your products. Do not just target HFGH for your ideology.

Oh by the way, I found ONE product that is 100% made in the USA.

Charmin Basic.

Scary but true.....

HOLY CHINESE COW,
You guys want to see a homemade USA greenhouse frame? OK, let me see if I can load some pics into, Damn, seniors moment. Hell, you know what I mean.

Soon to be released

1eyedJack's USA made greenhouse frame.

Please stand by while I check with India on how to do this.

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See how easy it is to make a frame. The hard part is getting enough money to finish the damn thing.
GAME PLAN
An exhaust fan and shutter on the far end.
Intake vents will be founddation vents that are controled by a thermo coil
Door on the near end made, well I haven't figured that one out yet, but I am working on it.
Size: 7 feet wide, by 10 feet plus high and 15 feet long.
COST: I have on idea yet

Notice the double end thingums. That is where the door will go. The idea of the double thingums is that I can attach 1 x 4 to that with screws and then, well then that will be the door when I figure that one out.

ERRORS: Many, it only took me 5 months to get this far.

BUT, it will work

I think I will replace all the 7 foot wide members with whole lengths of EMT and THEN IT WILL BE 10 by 15

REMEMBER: American enginuity is what made us great.
DARE to be different and

SCREW THE CHINKS

1eyed Jack and the Dawg

Damn, I need another drink

You're getting there. :) That looks like it's going to be a really nice GH when finished.

What U now see is it on "stub legs". The real legs are 7" long PLUS. I have not yet cut them shorter as I don't know if I intend to anchor them in the ground them selves or attach them to the side boards. Easy to do, just twirl the pipe cutter around a few times.

I can assure that it will be as strong as hell with the excess bracing. Why to much bracing. Lots more than needed, but that will also allow me to have a complete "Second or Third floor" if I want to use it for starting seedlings or such. As long as I keep it light and within reason or use very shallow trays that will not be a problem.

Living and learning every day just like I tell the kids I used to teach.

1eyedJack and the Dawg

THanks GH for the kind words.

It sure is going to be a nice one Jack. I can't wait until you get it finished and start growing things in there! And it will be a good place for the Dawg to enjoy as well.

I found something Made in America....My Greenhouse! YES! I made it myself. The steal was made in Ga along with the screws. The poly was made up north. I think everything else I own comes from overseas.

:-)

PS..I think the water is still local, I guess I could call down at the station and see if they are importing yet.

I have wanted my own greenhouse for about twenty five years.

I tried to get DH to build me a greenhouse out of old sliding glass doors and windows for years. Never happened. He had easy access to the doors and windows and we had plans from a friend whose DH did build one.

Read here about the HFGH and I got one for my birthday within two weeks of reading about it. We have spent less than $500 for the foundation and insulation (still not installed :( ) including the greenhouse. It has withstood two winters here with no problems.

There was no way we could afford $1500 or more for a USA made kit.

I work as a wholesale sales rep, selling gifts and home decor to stores. I do represent some companies who products are NOT made in China but....despite buyers asking all the time, they aren't big sellers because the cost is higher. My English teapots have gone up in price so high because the dollar has fallen so far against the pound that I can hardly sell them. They are arguably the finest teapots in the world but the made in China knock offs are selling much better......

Beautiful photos mudhouse!
Miwa

Thank you Miwa! :-)

oledawg-
Yes, America has had a lot of ingenuity (and luck) that has made us great, but comments like "SCREW THE CHINKS" is offensive, even if you meant it as humorous, and represents something that doesn't make us great. I'm not an apologist for China, its politics, or its policies. But, as far as I'm concerned, name-calling in these forums is not ok. I'm not trying to start an argument with you, chastise you, or challenge you to defend your comment. I just don't think it belongs here.

Kudzu9,
If I offended you I am sorry. It was not intended to offend.
Our country is in for a hard time in the coming years and a lot of it we have brought upon ourselves. I personally think it is a time for us to LOOK INWARD. The USA can exist on its own if the people therein take it upon themselves to look to our country first and bite the bullet.
I am a boomer having been born in 1946. I can remember my parents talking about VICTORY GARDENS. I grew up during the Cold War and have seen vast changes in the US and the world and I have seen what our country can do when pressed.
You are right, this is not a political forum and I will say no more.

1eyedJack and the Dawg

Jack-
I understand your worldview and share a lot of it. I'm an older dawg than you as I was born in 1945 and had all those same experiences. I wasn't personally offended, as much as I was concerned about the casual use of a racial slur, especially in our current climate of hard times where we need to solve our problems, rather than take others to task. So, again, thanks for understanding my point, not interpreting it as a personal attack, and for being gracious enough to respond thoughtfully and politely.

By the way, before I got off track, I meant to say: "Nice greenhouse you've got there!" So let's get back to that more pleasant subject.

I'm glad you recanted your "SCREW THE CHINKS" because that was really offensive to me. I am asian, migrated here when I was 2 so I pretty much consider myself American. But still when people say those types of remarks it just gets to me. I don't have any problems buying Made in China, USA, Europe, whatever. It doesn't really matter to me. Some people can afford a certain amount of quality and some cannot. For the people that simply do not make enough to spend thousands of dollars, a HFGH could be that little joy they look forward to after a hard day's of work. Who has the right to deny them that?

I love America, what a great country but there sure are lots of problems right now. I think birdwidow struck it right when he talked about the government. We simply need a change in the views and actions of our government. Focus "inward" instead of on other countries. Has anyone seen "who killed the electric car". I have no idea why we are fighting for oil in Iraq when we had a totally feasible answer to that years ago.

I bought grapes today that were imported from Chile! Can you imagine the real cost of that when you add in the oil to move it to Hagerstown Maryland? The problem is that the dollar has been falling dramatically. This means that not only will items cost more coming from other countries, but that it will not be affordable or practical or competitive to import those grapes for long. Our standards of living are being reduced to the rest of the world as they catch up at our expense. So what does this mean to this forum? I'm glad that most of us here are trying to grow plants and food. The next generation will need our help and learning. So, where the greenhouse comes from isn't as important as how we use it.
~tom

I've been following this thread, but refraining from answering ... until today. A beautiful day, with temps in the mid-70's, perfect for getting out there to work in the yard and gardens, move some more things out of the greenhouse, while enjoying the fresh spring breezes, birdsong, and buzzing bees ... and humming leaf blowers, and the drone of small aircraft operated by weekend pilots, and neighbor's little children who tool up and down the driveway in their little powered go-cart, and the not-so-little-"children" across the street going in circles on their go-carts, and the mortorcyclists out for a ride, not to mention the guys in their big off-road-capable trucks; however, it's still too early for the jet-skis, and the evening is peaceful, as the race track has announced it will be closing down this season.

Hmmmmm ... is it really a change in views of our government that's needed? Restrictions on imported goods? I should give up the luxury of my (affordable) 6x8 (Chinese-made) greenhouse ... when I eschew a leaf-blower for a good old-fashioned hand rake, synthetic chemicals for organic gardening methods and IPM, and other such environmentally-friendly lifestyle decisions? When the car I've chosen to drive, even at 10 years of age, is more fuel-efficient than any (so-called) American-made model, but could not be parked in the lot of a local union hall because it's foreign-made? (I'm not kidding, they have a big billboard outside to make that clear.) When I'm living in a relatively small (All I can say is I'm glad I'm not among the younger generation. I'm worried for the world my children and grandchildren will have to live in ... and I cherish the freedom I do have to make a carefully considered decision about my purchases and my lifestyle.

Rant over ... feel better ... thank you for "listening" ... good luck, everyone :-)

This is my third season of growing plants from seed in my 10x12 HFGH.
When I first read this i went out and checked the plants but everything is doing fine.
Seem like the plants don't mind that they are in a cheap HFGH they don't seem to know any better so they just keep growing.

Hey Gardnerwanabe,

Spent the afternoon in my cheap 10x12 HFGH also. Moving some seed starts outdoors now and just got a shipment of Orchids in from Orchid World in Orlando.

I seem to remember the HFGH was cheaper than if I just bought the twin wall poly on it's own.

I'm going to use some of the savings to install a heater for next winter, don't know where it's made :-)

Tom in Hagerstown,
Don't forget the raspberrys and other fruit that comes up from Chile. I have been there many times. They have it down pat. The grapes and berrys are picked, washed and packaged IN THE FIELD and go staight to the plane. Table grapes are a vanishing fruit here in the US SINCE all the grape land now is planted in wine grapes.

1eyedJack and the Dawg

gee, Jack. not only are things being produced overseas, food is too! what's left for this country besides consumption?
~tom

I imagine some plants would grow much better in a Chinese made greenhouse.

Why do I say that you wonder?

The great patriotic favorite early tomato, even has an American flag on the front of the seed packet!

Burpee Select - Tomato - Fourth of July Hybrid

(now casually turn the packet over.......)

Packed for 2008 sell by 11/08
Origin China Lot 7

Made me smile anyway....

:)