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Soil, Compost & Mulch

Do I need to add soil to compost bin?

10 years ago

Thanks

Comments (8)

LoneCowboy
10 years ago
No not at all. If you were going to add any "SOIL" I would only add a scoop of a previously composted amendment that contains "mycorrhiza" per the label. Otherwise just add dried mulched leaves :)

This post was edited by LoneCowboy on Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 14:48
Kimmsr
10 years ago
We just had a discussion on this topic and a wide variety of opinions were expressed but no there is no reason to add soil to the compost material.
Once it was thought that putting good, rich soil on the material to be composted would add the bacteria that would digest that material. Today we know that all of the material we put into be composted already has the bacteria that will digest them in place, that is why the foods left out develop the fuzzy stuff on them.
Mycorrhiza refers to a relationship some fungi have with plants and not to any specific fungi. That relationship is most often symbiotic, mutually beneficial, in that the fungi get sugars from the plant in exchange to providing necessary nutrients to the plant. Mycorrhiza is not a specific fungi that you can add to soil or compost no matter what the sellers of products may tell you. Each plant develops this relationship with different fungi.
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I can't tell you how large a planting area you need but a 1200sf garden should be able to grow a LOT of produce, especially if you do succession plantings of fast crops likes greens and peas. I grew up with a much smaller dedicated vegetable garden than that and my folks canned and froze a lot of what we grew. There were 6 of us in my family. You might want to look into 'square foot gardening' for intensive planting in a smaller area. How much soil/compost you will need will depend entirely on how large the garden area is you decide upon. You will have to determine that before you know how much to add. If doing raised beds, it's pretty easy to calculate the volume each will contain (multiply the length x width x depth). If open beds, you'll need at least 6" of soil, more if you want to grow any root crops. Remember to keep the units the same - 6" = .5'. If you were going with the 30'x40' garden area again to a depth of 6", you'd need 600 cubic feet of soil or about 22.5 cubic yards. That's assuming you have no existing soil at your disposal. Here is a link that might be useful: square foot gardening
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“Salty” Manure It’s quite easy to find NPK values for manures and manure compost. Bagged composts containing manure that I have seen are typically in the NPK range of other bagged composts ��" 1-1-1 for example. It is not so easy to find ‘salt’ content of manures. Everyone likes to SAY that “manure is salty,” but there are vastly more NPK reports for manures on the web than there is data on salt content. If anyone has actual data, please post a link. Fact sheets and articles saying manure is salty are not particularly useful. It does make sense that when urine is included in the manure, it would have higher salt content. Particularly in a feedlot, where (reportedly) higher salt levels are fed in order to make the animals retain water so they sell for more. If you’re getting manure from someone who has a couple of horses, it’s probably going to be different from manure from a beef feedlot. This does not make all manure unusable. My FIL put manure on his garden (NE silty sandy loam) annually for decades and had wonderful gardens year after year. I have clay (which retains salts longer), mostly use my own compost, and wouldn’t use pure manure year after year. I do occasionally buy bagged products that have or probably have manure in them. No problems here. “Alkaline Soils” A claim was made that Western soils retain more salt because they are alkaline. It was always my impression that Western soils retain salts better because it’s more arid in the West so they are not washed out. Regardless, it might be a good idea for Westerners to watch the amount of manure they add, and know what’s in it. Unfortunately in arid zones there is often a lack of green waste for composting, but there are lots of cattle so manure becomes an important source of OM for gardeners. “Heavy Metals” I was able to find a paper on extraction of HM from manures and it appeared that Cd, Hg, Pb were somewhat higher than they might be in native soils depending upon where you are. Based on the numbers I saw, it would take a looong time for them to become significant. However metals do accumulate (they don’t biodegrade) and the heavy ones likely don’t leach away (the more clayey the soil, the more they will stick). Basically any time you’re importing organic matter (or synthetic fertilizer, for that matter), any bioaccumulative constituents present are being added to your current load. Unless you can subsist entirely on your own compost made from your own waste, this is an inevitable consequence. How long would it take for Pb to build up to an unsafe level in topsoil if you’re adding so many lb of imported compost per sq ft per year? The math is not actually that complicated. What’s the HM content of non-manure based composts (i.e. the alternatives)? What’s the background level of HM in the soil to begin with? These are all things to consider, and there is no single answer due to the endless variations. Rejecting the use of manure based compost entirely, on the basis of HM content, is a very simplistic approach.
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Steve Soloman says lots of things...and he has critics of some of the things he says even if most of it is good. The amount of N held by adding soil/clay to a compost pile is rather miniscule. It helps, but not much...especially if you turn it. Clays/silts help hold N...as well as other nutrients...but in an active pile it doesn't benefit very much. It's action is best achieved in an undisturbed-yet-active soil...and even then you experience great losses with air/water/heat (all 3 of which you should find in excess in a compost pile). He has a hand on some information, but the scale of it's benefit is what he's lacking. Where he came to suggest 5-25% as an amount to add is just odd...seems like something he randomly came up with. Adding 25% soil to a compost is a great way to add a lot of extra weight to your pile with very little benefit for why you're composting to begin with.
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Hello, Our favorite tomato expert Carolyn137 wrote an excellent response to a question about Blossom End Rot (BER) and I am quoting it here: With BER there is NO problem with absorption of Ca++ though the roots. The problem is maldistribution within the plant that can be induced by a number of stresses which include uneven delivery of water, too much N, growing in too rich soil, too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry you name it. As the plants mature they can better handle the streses that can induce BER so usually it goes away. The two exceptions are first, if the soil has NO Ca++ as confirmed with a soil test, and that's a rare condition, and second, if the soil is too acidic in which Case Ca++ is bound in the soil. Again, adding lime, egg shells and on and on can not and will not prevent BER b'c absorption of Ca++ thru the roots is OK. Paste tomatoes are especially susceptible to BER and I think someone in a post above mentioned that. If you go to the top of this first page and click on the FAQ link and scroll down you'll also find an article about BER in case some of you have never looked at the FAQ's And there';s some darn good articles there as well, but I wouldn't pay any attention to the variety list b'c it's way out of date. The old information about BER being caused solely by lack of soil Ca++ has been shown to be wrong with research that's been done in the last 20 years or so, but it's going to take another generation before the real story gets into books, websites, magazines, etc. Most of the better websites already have the correct information. BER affects not only tomatoes, but peppers, squash, cabbage, cauliflower, etc., and it's a huge multimillion dollar problem for the industry, which is WHY all that reasearch was done. For instance, when tissues were taken from a plant that has BER fruits and was assayed for Ca++, the normal level of Ca++ was found, it just wasn't getting to the blossom end of fruits. And there's also a condition called internal BER where the fruits look fine, no evidence of BER externally, but when you cut open the fruit the inside is black Hope that helps Carolyn knows tomatoes! Betsy
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bluegoat_gw
10 years ago
Yes, the addition of soil or clay to compost produces a superior product - higher CEC and better water retaining capacity. The addition of 5% to 10% soil or clay slurry will wet the material better than just water during composting and produces a compost with a better clay-crumb structure. This type of compost is sometimes referred to as humified compost.

Here is a link that might be useful: Humus Theories
Lloyd
10 years ago
I think some people are missing the word need in the OP's question.

The correct answer is no. You certainly may, but it is not needed.

Lloyd
elisa_z5
10 years ago
I don't know how to link a thread, so I pulled up the recent discussion on this topic. Lots of info in the discussion.
nancyjane_gardener
10 years ago
I don't go far to put my compost into my garden beds, so I take advantage of the gophers' hard work and scoop up the mounds of clay soil I find that they have very nicely chewed up into a fine blend and add that to the compost!
It works out perfectly! Compost/soil added to the tops of the, beds, lightly tilled in , no worm kill that I can see!
But, for the most part, it's not necessary ! Nancy
Kimmsr
10 years ago
Sir Albert Howards original Indore recipe for composting was 6 inches of vegetative waste, 2 inches of animal manure and 1/8 inch of good rich soil (to get the bacteria necessary to digest the material into the mix). Later research, in the 1950's, showed that the materials being composted already had the bacteria that would be digesting them and soil was not necessary to the composting process. Many of us found that to be true when we stopped adding soil to our compost piles and the digestion process worked just as well without that soil.
If someone likes the extra work involved in digging soil up to add to the compost pile they can do that, as long as they understand it will do little for the process.
farmerkevin
10 years ago
Only soil added to my compost is when I add weeds that I pulled. Sometimes some soil hangs on to the roots.

But I don't actively add soil to my pile.

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