Oh, go figure.
After posting, I remembered/realized there are home forums here, too. I immediately found one on renewable energy!

I'd still like your thoughts, though. Gardeners carry weight with me. [LOL]
Thanks!
Christine

We have a subscription to Countryside Magazine ( I hope I am allowed to say that)Every month they have an article on solar energy. You can e-mail these people with questions.
I know nothing about solar, but also wondered about making my greenhouse better on energy consumption. I thought about trying out my idea for camping in the greenhouse, for watering, light, but probably not heat.
For camping we are buying a portable power pack at Wally world for about 100$. I think it is Black and Decker or something. Then Harbor Freight sells solar battery chargers like for the RV. I was hoping to use the portable power pack and charging it with the solar charger. Then use it for any camping power needs. I have no idea if it will work, but if not they will definately still be put to use.
This is probably no use for your home solar needs, but I thought I would throw it out there in case anybody has any ideas on it.
Check out that magazine also. They are very useful.

Most greenhouses are heated with solar energy. You can collect a lot more valuable solar energy/$ using a large plastic greenhouse than anything else out there.

Unless you aren't connected to the grid, or you have lots of money to spare, PV isn't really a good option. Look at solar heating and solar hot water first. For example, $700 might buy you a 100W peak PV system, but it would also buy you a 2kW (6kWh) evacuated tube DHW system or a very swish 15kW solar heating system (10x12 HFGH). PV is also all made by evil oil companies.

Actually, not all PV are made by 'evil oil companies.'
It does make sense for us, we're deciding. Everything is totally electric where we live, so being out in the country, we're the last to be reconnected when there's a power outage. We can go solar, have toilets, water, heat and light, or we can run a gas-guzzling, thundering generator.

Thanks for the magazine recommendation, too! I'll check it out.
Christine

I don't understand your (false) dichotomy: We can go solar, have toilets, water, heat and light, or we can run a gas-guzzling, thundering generator.

Why can't you have toilets with a generator?

As a rough guide, PV to run your whole house by will probably cost you about $25000 with batteries and GI inverter. My parents have a 1.5kW peak GI system that generates about 5kWh/day average in Melbourne (a fairly sunny location) which cost them and the govt about $20000. Most houses use about 12kWh of pure electrical load (heating and dhw add lots). A 1hp petrol generator costs less than $100 here and would be quite adequate for recharing batteries at 5kWh/day. You could buy a bunch of them and have higher availability.

You can buy nice diesel generators which are much quieter and run on biodiesel where available. And you can cogenerate heat with them too with a cheap enclosure and some suitable ducting or plumbing.

What are you going to use for heat and DHW?

Which PV companies aren't controlled by oil companies, btw?

I think you're missing the point about the generator. Or, I guess the idea of the frequent power outages we suffer in the southern Maryland area was understood on my part, but not on the part of readers.
Of course we can have toilets. However, the generator, a gas guzzler, louder than most rock concerts (yes, it's a new, so-called "energy efficient" model). I would almost rather do without, than use that thing or buy more of any of them. With solar, we could potentially have the best of both worlds: conserve and maybe even produce energy, while still have the basics.

Controlled by evil oil companies? I can't answer that, but will look into it for my own information. You said "built by" which isn't necessarily the case. BP is a big system builder, but if I had to choose an oil company, it would be them. My family was a distrubutor of Standard Oil, then Amoco since 1932. They've paid many of our bills, although I think the balance has tipped in their favor now.

Thanks for the info on your parents' place. Good to know.
Christine

I have no idea about how easy it is to sound proof a genny. I've done some experimentation sound proofing a pump using foam boxes filled with soil, which works reasonably well. Putting a brick box around the generator would also make heat collection easier.

Maryland isn't exactly a sunny place (I work with someone in Maryland, and watch their weather on the computer).

Have you researched solar shingles? I saw a program recently featuring these roof shingles. I had never heard of them before, and they were waaay cool. The program said you could save up to 60% of your monthly energy costs. There are grants available to reimburse you up to 50% of the cost of the shingles and installation. I was very impressed by what I saw on the program. I don't know how sunny it is where you live, but this could be a great option for you if you receive enough sunlight.

Here is a link that might be useful: Solar Roof Shingles

This is the first time I've heard of the shingles! I'll check them out, wolflover. Thanks for the idea. We have to reroof anyway!

As far as Maryland not being a sunny place? I've always felt I lived in a microcosm, since my weather conditions occur a week later than most everyone else around me. Perhaps this explains why, as I mentioned, I get 8 to 14 (maybe even 16) hours of full, hot, vicious, Maryland sun. Not sunny? Tell that to my gardens that sizzle each July -> the end of September. Check the exposure maps and you'll note that Maryland in its entirety, is listed as an excellent place for solar energy. Not so good for wind, but solar is great.

So on we go, reading, asking and planning.

Christine

The solar shingles have some disadvantages in performance over other types of solar panels. They are only about 60% as efficient as a regular solar panel of comparable area and 80 to 90% as expensive. Uni-Solar (Stanford Ovshinsky's) company is one supplier. Uni-Solar isn't owned by an oil company but is probably financed by a car company or two, since they are based in Detroit (Auburn Hills).

With an efficiency of around 13% it is probably better, and a lot cheaper, to go with a gasoline or NG powered generator for backup which will give about 20% efficiency. A 10KW natural gas backup generator costs around $2500. A 10KW solar system would cost $68,000 (http://www.mrsolar.com). Non-amorphous solar panels can do better at about 17% efficiency, especially if you use them on a sun-tracking mount.

We have just been cold called from a company called Britannic Power who claim their Solar System will produce enough energy to completely replace our Oil Boiler - Is this possible ?

Got to love them new fabgled electric toilets!

You might also try the alt. energy forum on craigslist. Be forewarned. Not many people there really believe solar is ready for prime time, so you may take a lot of abuse. There are also people who live completely off-grid and who are really willing to help you out. You'll just need a bit of a tough skin and a clear head.

Poppa

Generally one buys PV panels by the watt, that is search for the best price per watt. If you have strong feelings about one manufacture or another you can always factor that in, but there are quite a few choices out there. Often you will need to go with whatever brand your system designer has a deal with.

Depending upon your site, you may want to consider ground mounted panels (much easier to adjust the tilt with the seasons as one should but rarely does). Any panels mounted on a roof will eventually need to be removed when the roof needs new shingles.

Be sure that the inverter you get will supply power to your home even with the grid down. Most of the batteryless grid-tie inverters do not.

You might also want to consider solar hot water panels too. They should work well and often have a much faster payback than PV. They can be used for hot water (of course) as well as supplying heat for your home. Even if you do not put them in now, consider running insulated pipes in the walls during construction so that they can be added later.

You might want to read some issues of HomePower magazine. Great info there on this stuff.

I'd have to agree with some of the other posters. For now PV makes absolutely no sense from an economics standpoint unless you have ridiculous electric rates and the state pays for half or better of the installation. Hopefully that will change when companies like nanosolar are able to pump out cheap pv's, but it's not here yet. Now if you just want to install them; because you want too be "green" go right ahead. In any case solar thermal is about the closest you'll get to both green and economical. A PV system with batteries, inverter, panels and installation capable of providing power for average electrical needs will cost between 25-35k and possibly much more if you're a heavy user of electricity. Oh and forget about the solar shingles they're outrageous from an economics standpoint, but again if you just "want" them then what the heck.

Personally I'm really hoping that Nanosolar is able to deliver on their promise of cheap mass produced panels. Last I heard their production is totally booked up until early next year too power companies.

I was just wondering about how many percent people use solar panels in different states of USA. I know it�s hard to believe but more than 60% people in New Jersey are using and in Texas around 50%, I studied this in a networking website. Do you think this data is accurate about solar energy? By the way I am using 1kwatt solar panel which is enough to meet my house energy requirement.

im no expert, been reading/researching it, specifically for later use. Talking with a few folks, heres what im looking at and this is presented purely for though provoking info

off the grid is over rated and not neccessary if you ask some solar users(myself included) yes its all romantic thinking about the self sufficiency aspect of it, but honestly probably not worth it in a urban/semi rural area.

grid tie is ALMOST a great answer, but if you lose power in a storm, doesnt matter how much solar you put on the roof. it still has to be stored and disseminated.

ive been thinking of a hybrid type system(again for the future) where id be grid tied 99% of the time, but id also have battery storage and a set of outlets (the garage for instance) specifically for power outages/storms. i could still run a small refrigerator/freezer(mine in the garage now runs at about 2.5a) and a small TV, couple of fans and maybe flourescent lighting. off the grid. indefinitely. yeah hot showers wouldnt happen, and cooking would be strictly open fire/grill, but you know you could go as far as you want.

that may very well be a good place to start for you. my uncle is off the grid in the escalante canyon, but he didnt go all in at the beginning. work your way up.

Now heres the reality of alternative energy. it requires regular maintenance and periodic replacement of components. batteries are likely the most expensive part.(based on a small 35w garden pond experiment i recently completed- ha, i turned a 100$ pond into a 400$ pond in a week, more on that in a minute) and theyll need to be replaced at some point. just the way it is. same with panels, at some point theyll need to be replaced. just keep it in mind as you deliberate.

as far as panels go. thin film is cheaper, eficiency is less, and life span is shorter. mono/poly crystalline is more efficient, lasts longer, but exponentially more expensive.

batteries. i could go for weeks on info ive found out about solar power storage, AGM, lead acid,gel cell, etc etc etc. either way, you get what you pay for and you will pay.

heres a general idea of expenses based on my very limited experience during one solar experiment.

1 30 gallon pond kit- 100$ northern tool
35w monocrystalline panel with charge controller- 80$ ebay
8w 12v DC pump- 40$ online
34AH AGM battery(electric wheel chair battery) 90$ batteries plus.
various wiring/fasteners/etc- 30$
add in labor(it was me, i make about $20+ per hour) for 6 hours of work installing only. now i have probably 5-6 years of off the grid power for my stupid 30 gallon pond. then ill have to replace the battery, maybe the charge controller. hoping the panel lasts at least 10, maybe 15 years. nevermind the pump. that could go any minute

now muliply that by 50-100 (sans pond kit) and add permits, inspections, engineers, designers, electricians. i dont even know what that would cost. and you should have a beginning idea of what it would cost to do a house off the grid. yep youre self sufficient, but it could take years to get the return on investment, and then youd be looking at regular replacement of something, so youd be better off, but not free.

that said, i like my pond. the birds like it, and im sure the mosquitos will too this summer(crap theres another 30$ in either fish or dunks, plus algae control, talk about a 64$ tomato) i did learn A TON about solar though.

matt