It's a bit off topic but I have a good story about waiting for nature to take it's course. The house my mom bought about six years ago came with a pretty large plum tree, that first year (it had been sprayed while the house was for sale) it did fine, no problems. The second year I noticed some curled leaves, which I found out were caused by plum aphids. I decided that I would just let it be and wait for the ladybugs to come and eat them. Well, the plum suffered that year, and the next year it was even worse. It's been getting worse every year, last year there were hardly any unaffected leaves. This year, seeing that almost every leaf was curled and the aphids were starting to spread to my new Elephant Heart plum, I had decided that I would start taking stronger measures, as much as I hate to spray I was ready to start. But I delayed for about a week because I was busy, and then one day I was passing by the big plum and I noticed a massive amount of activity. Upon closer inspection I realized that there were thousands of ladybugs, soldier beetles, and other predatory bugs I'm unfamiliar with feasting on the aphids. I don't know why it took so long for them to come, but the cavalry finally arrived and I'm feeling very happy about it. I guess years and years of no pesticides whatsoever finally brought the good bug populations up so that they can handle the aphids. I guess the moral of the story is that patience is a virtue, and sometimes procrastination can be a good thing!

Oooh, pretty, pretty. My Cramoisi CL is just a baby with balling problems, but I'm going to wait it out since eventually it will look like that. My Louis P. is only 2 months old but already 3 x 3. The blooms are so RED and beautifully cupped and plentiful that I forget to notice that they're small - about an inch & a half fully open. I look out my BR window every morning to see more blooms! I love it!

Jeri - I don't know if you remember me from earlier years, but my garden is just south of you in LA (inland from Venice Beach), and I generally find your experience (much greater than mine) echoes my own. Here, too, Louis Phillipe seems happier than Cramoisi S. Actually, when we first moved to Mar Vista 15 years ago, the summers were hotter and my garden sunnier, so CS did very well! But, with the increasing cool & grey summers, CS started to mildew reguarly, and I gave up on the bush and sadly removed it. I also grew a CS climber and it was spectacular for about 6 years, then it suddenly declined (I think something attacked the roots) and it couldn't be saved. I planted a 2nd CS bush, but the past couple of summers have been so cool that it almost seems as tho consistent summer weather starts in late August. I've planted a number of Chinas roses the past couple years, but have moved them all to the hottest sunniest spots or they sulk. Since CS is probably my favorite red rose, it's now claiming the hottest, sunniest & least windy spot in the garden -- it looks like it may be growing out of its sulky ways.

Oh yeah, when I actually (rarely) CAN pronounce the names correctly, I feel pretentious. "Agrippina" brings back fond memories of "I, Claudius". Noble Agrippina the elder, doomed to early widowhood & exile; Livia, aka "Ulysess in petticoats", et. al. Plus it's just a pretty name. Pretty rose, too. One of my very first OGRs. I think the photos represent its true color very well.