The pictures are so lovely! Speedy recovery Joyce. You are incredible. So this site is not only about lotus, also about survival-? The lotus seems so full of life maybe there is a connection-?:)) I am looking for advice and tips too - being a novice lotus grower or wannabe. The lotus out on my balcony, which are all in containers, are struggling but haven't given up yet. I planted them in regular potting soil, so perhaps not enough nutrients, and they are getting half a days worth of sun? Should I replant them in early spring with compost? I have six from seeds, but I haven't seen an aerial yet... still they are trying but the leaf browns out of water... one grown from root has a few floating ones... which is probably Momo Botan, the seedlings I don't know. So they are not dormant yet, with Mediterranean climate. I really don't need seven lotuses, but who knows if they make it! Other question... the seedlings are in jugs, like big juice jugs, should they go into bigger pots packed with compost even now they are struggling? Thanks... Tarja

That's pretty good list above. If you're sure you don't want koi (the planned pond is really too small anyway) I'd argue that 4' is too deep. At 30 to 36" in your area I'm sure you'll overwinter hardy plants and fish, whereas at 4' deep it will be harder to grow and take care of plants such as lilies. Consider carefully the size of your lower pond; very few ponders look back and wish they had made a smaller pond. Many, however, wish they had gone bigger. A pond the size you're considering can be beautiful, but one (they're gorgeous) tropical lily or a decent size hardy lily could cover the whole thing. Of course, you'll need some of the equally attractive marginal plants to bring it all together. But diminuitive versions of many very nice plants are available for down-scale water gardens. You might leave your options open for a larger future pond for your planned pond to flow into, or you might just bump things up a bit now. I sure did when I did mine, up from 1500 gallons to 15,000 and I've added more ponds since then. If the falls is large, your upper pond is significant, and your flow rates are substantial you may find that your lower pond will overflow in the event of power or pump failure. Then, when the pump kicks back in your lower pond will be too low. The falls, depending on how wide it ends up, may take a rather large flow for pleasing effect which compounds the problem. On the same kind of thought, consider how your pond will overflow during rainy periods. I'd recommend a biofilter even without heavy fish load, it won't hurt the pond and is a much better choice than a load of rocks in the bottom. If your thing is lilies you may wish a nearly flat bottom (no rocks, of course). It will allow you to use items such as milk crates to raise pots up as necessary for growth and effect. I'd strongly consider a bottom drain even if you don't routinely draw water from it. Muck will accumulate at a surprising rate even in a garden pond (rocks on the bottom will serve better to hide the muck than solve the problem, and you will curse them if you try to clean it yourself). A BD will immensely simplify fall cleaning and therefore benefit your pond and fish. If you draw water continuously from the BD the lower strata of water will remain fresher and the bottom will likely be cleaner. Many put bottom drains (just shower drains) even in their streams to simplify their cleaning. Not to worry, rocks tend to get hidden as things grow on them, liner does too. Bare liner underwater looks pretty good after time, submerged rocks OTOH tend to look worse with time. Don't use silicone to seal, find some polyurethane. The silicone isn't permanant and I have personally seen it fail. If you use a skimmer (probably should, keeps the surface of the water clean and reflective) it would be best if sited at the downwind side of the pond (probably northeast) if you can. Falls, therefore, would be best southwest. I didn't (used TPRs to direct debris) and on windy days the floating debris just has to wait or sink. There are things to consider in colder climates, such as freezing pipes, keeping a hole open for the fish, sinking pots to the bottom if you're using a planting ledge, running or not running falls or pump in winter. Read lots of forums, not just this one. Opinions will vary greatly, find some posters you trust. There are lots of ways to get the job done, some are alarmingly complex and others are perhaps too simple. It can be discouraging sorting through the myriad options and opinions, particularly if one has no personal experience. But there's a beauty to liner ponds: You can change them.

Hi Here's my two cents. Depends on the varieties Lilies can be from 2 feet to over 40 feet in diameter, tend to float while lotus rise above the water easily from two to at least 12 feet. Lilys need enough water depth to allow the pads to float while lotus do not.. I would grow in pots as they will over run each other. I would go to 3 feet in depth to allow for the pots . Lotus can be raised on bricksor cement blocks. Check out the growth habits of those that interest you. There are dozens of types. 2. Depends on your mosquito problem in your area. Fish are the best all around solution to this problem but they do make chemicals. Some type of minnow that can survive your climate if you don't want larger ornamental fish. You're not required to eat them lol. Both lily and Lotus are messy in that they produce large leaves that must be removed over time. They resent water movement, again depending on the variety so an ordinary filter is rather useless. 3. Probably, they make coatings for cement for waterproofing. Certainly easier to take care of that before filling for sure. 4 If the waterproofing works ,it doesn't crack or leak then you don't need a liner. Sounds like a good size for a watergarden though that many will definitely be crowded. Choose appropriaate sizes. You can expand the area by growing lotus in waaterproof pots along the edge since they don't need the water depth. Sound like a beautiful watergarden in the making!!! gary

You would need to buy some bagged topsoil to pot your aquatic plants in. It is cheap at big box stores. Many tropical and hardy aquatic plants thrive in Phoenix, I had a ponding friend there who had a business selling off her extras as they grew so fast. You didn't say you were in Phoenix that is just where I used to live. You can grow plants from tubers at the Asian market. You can also get them from other ponders, a lot cheaper than retail. There is an exchange as part of this forum and there are others too if you google. Many allow plants to be sold but this one does not. Many aquatic plants are fast growing and small starts are fine. There are not so many that are suitable for a home gardener to grow for food production. Most are ornamental.