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Ponds & Aquatic Plants

Why worry about the pond icing over?

16 years ago

My pond is about 5 years old and ices over every winter. Why is everyone so obsessed with keeping a hole open.

I run an air pump full time and as long as I see air going under the ice I know gases are escaping, so I see no need for a hole to be maintained. Actually an iced over pond is covered in a blanket of 32 degrees and protected from the much colder outside air.

Am I missing something?

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Comments (7)

cindy_pond
16 years ago
I think most of us are doing what we have been told is the best way to allow for gas exchange. The air pump is a good idea. I have been using a solids handling pump to keep a hole open. what kind of air pump are you using? I might give that a try.
ghost
Original Author
16 years ago
Cindy pond
I use a aquarium pump a dual unit that pumps to two air stones which I position about 6 inches below the surface in the center of the pond. These pumps don't pump against much pressure so I reason that if it bubbling gas must be escaping. It ices over during the colder months but I can see the bubbles under the ice.
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Waterbug guy, First I will talk a little bit about concrete in water. You say it is a myth that concrete in water can kill fish and raise the PH. When concrete first sets up the surface PH is 12.0. Which is the same PH as a drain cleaner called "draino". As it is exposed to the CO2 in the air the PH goes down. But water is a very good leaching agent and so water will continue to try and get the chemicals out of the concrete. So will the PH in the water be raised? If the water has normal PH of 6.5 to 8.5 the answer is yes. The real question should be "how much will it raise it"? That question isn't easily answered as there are a lot of variables. Just to list some the age of the concrete, the condition of the concrete, is the water flowing over the concrete, the natural PH of the water, is the water being changed, and the volume of the water versus the contact area of the concrete. In some cases the rise might be so low as to make it very difficult to measure. But in other cases it can and does raise the PH to 9 to 9.5. At these levels it can and does kill fish. If I remember correctly you have stated that you are a pond contractor. If you are I hope you having started using roofing liner in the ponds that you build. Most of the time a person on this forum is never going to have a problem with roofing liner. Can there be a problem with roofing liner? This should be the question. The answer is yes. The chances that there could be a problem is very low. The largest pond product manufacturer in the US sent out a letter to all their customers a number of years ago. This letter said that all their liner in the future would be tested to be fish safe as they got a batch in that was not. In other words they were selling roofing liner as pond liner. This company had been selling a lot of liner for 10 years before this problem. If it had happen today with the wide use of the internet I would have think that some lawyer would have gotten this information and started a class action lawsuit against them and they would be out of business. The lawyer could easily have sued them not only for the cost of the liner that they had sold but for the cost to replace all those liners in the ponds built with them going back to the first time they sold this liner. The largest liner manufacturer in this country has told me that almost never would you ever have a problem with roofing liner but you might. I think that as a contractor you can't take that chance. If you were unlucky and did have a problem and were sued over that problem the lawyer handling the case would find out that they would sue for every customer that you have that has this liner. In other words you would be out of business. So is roofing liner toxic? No most of the time. But there is a small chance that there maybe a problem. I have only talked about 2 of the 8 things that you listed. I could easily talk about many of the other things listed but my point is this. You listed these things as black and white but they are not black and white. The only thing that is black and white about ponds is that all aquatic life will die. Mike
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It's all about oxygen levels and fish loads. Fish do sometimes die in some pretty large lakes, and often will survive just fine in small backyard ponds that are covered in ice all winter. As long as they have enough oxygen to breath they can often survive without a hole in the ice. Lots of people make the mistake of thinking these holes we try to keep in our ponds are just about letting "toxic gasses out", and that's really a misnomer. It' all about gas exchange, bad gasses (CO2, H2S, etc...) out, and oxygen (O2) in. If you have a small pond and a very light fish load, maybe one or two fish, then you, or rather, the fish might get away without a hole in the ice, because they might have enough dissolved oxygen in the water that they'll be able to survive any freezing period. The more you increase your fish load, the less chance they have of surviving as the oxygen demands will go up and there just wont be enough oxygen to go around. Here is a link that explains winter fish kill better than I can.
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ccoombs1
16 years ago
But just because you see bubbles under the ice, that does not mean gas is escaping as well. The bottom edge of ice is not smooth and often does not touch the top of the water all the time in all places. There is plenty of room for air to sit, especially if it is being forced in with an air pump. There is still no escape for gasses that need to vent off. You won't lose any heat by keeping a hole thawed in the ice but you could save your fish from an untimely death. It doesn't always happen....but it DOES happen.
sheepco
16 years ago
Just my 2 cents, but I gotta point out that for a 5'x5'x28" deep pond "icing over" in my yard could mean anywhere from 12" to 28" of solid ice from aproximately January 1st to March 1st. So keeping a hole open makes sense. We can have below zero temps and/or windchills for weeks at a time.

Obviously ponders in different zones have different definitions of "icing over" :)

In my little pond, the ice on the edge can be 8" deep even with a de-icer keeping a hole open in the middle. That means less water, less O2, more toxins. My "hole" froze over for more than 2 weeks last winter, and the air stone kept a'bubblin'.....lost 5 big goldies :(

Many people get frustrated by equipment failures during the winter too. Hopefully the more ideas we spread around the more help ponders will find.
sleeplessinftwayne
16 years ago
The temperature of the water under the ice is going to remain above the freezing point. That is not the problem. As Sheepco and ccoombs point out the gas exchange is the issue. Too many posters who have my respect say it's necessary so I will continue to keep a hole in the ice. The bubbler just isn't enough for my 1000 gallon pond. If I don't allow for the gas exchange I will lose some fish and injure the health of the others. I would rather not take the chance. It isn't rocket science. By the way, do you have any background in science? Sandy
horton
16 years ago
I have taken the liberty of transferring Mucky Water's post here, as it and the article he gave a link to is worthwhile reading.
"Horton"

Originally Posted by mucky_waters (My Page) on Mon, Nov 5, 07 at 10:35

It's all about oxygen levels and fish loads.
Fish do sometimes die in some pretty large lakes, and often will survive just fine in small backyard ponds that are covered in ice all winter.
As long as they have enough oxygen to breath they can often survive without a hole in the ice. Lots of people make the mistake of thinking these holes we try to keep in our ponds are just about letting "toxic gasses out", and that's really a misnomer. It' all about gas exchange, bad gasses (CO2, H2S, etc...) out, and oxygen (O2) in.
If you have a small pond and a very light fish load, maybe one or two fish, then you, or rather, the fish might get away without a hole in the ice, because they might have enough dissolved oxygen in the water that they'll be able to survive any freezing period. The more you increase your fish load, the less chance they have of surviving as the oxygen demands will go up and there just wont be enough oxygen to go around.
Here is a link that explains winter fish kill better than I can.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mucky's Link
sleeplessinftwayne
16 years ago
Thank you, Horton and Mucky Waters and the Ohio State Cooperative Extension Service. Ohioline pubs are among the very best. We get a copy of their monthly newletter at our extension and it gets pretty tattered by the time everyone finishes reading it. Lots of research happens and if there is a problem popping up, they report it so you don't get blindsided when it reaches you. Sandy

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