Tropicofcancer, Like an epoxy it is a two part product but that is the only thing similar between the two types of products. Epoxy is a rigid product and if the cement moves or cracks the epoxy will fail. Over time the epoxy will probably fail. The CIM is a rubber product that will flex with movement and can stretch. Properly installed will last about 60 years. It has to be mixed with an electric drill mixer for 3 minutes. After mixed it is to sit for two minutes before using. Once mixed it has a working life of 20 minutes. The whole time it is getting thicker. I use the trowel grade. One person can easily do one gallon in the 20 minutes. When I use 5 gallons it requires at least 3 people and the product is getting pretty thick by the time that 5 gallons is gone. They say if I remember correctly that one gallon will cover about 25 square feet but I usually get about 15 sq ft. which means I put it on thick then the 60 mils that they say should be used. Fresh concrete has to set for thirty days before coating. It also has to be primed with their primer. That is brushed on and covers about 450 sq ft per gallon. CIM will adhere to a lot of different surfaces including non porous surfaces like rubber liner, brick, concrete and some plastics. When first installed it will be glossy and after six months will turn dull even under water. I have used it 6 ft under water with no problem. I buy it from a local company called Sealant Engineering. Mike

Putting a stucco type layer over liner is a tricky deal, but not really very difficult. I normally mortar rock over the liner which is easier, cheaper, different look. For a stucco layer...there is no standard building practice for this, it's more art. Two basic ways, mesh or no mesh. For mesh you need something that won't rust. Stainless steel mesh is best but plastic is OK. There's no such thing as plastic mesh for concrete so you have to use fence, or netting. For the SS you have to be very careful with sharp edges, turn them all up. With mesh is once the mortar is on the mesh if you vibrate the mesh very much the previous stuck mortar slides off. So as you put on the mortar the stuff you already added slides off. Very frustrating. The trick is to light flick some mortar onto the mesh. Cover as much as you can, but back off if previous mortar falls off. Your goal is to get some mortar behind the mesh in places so the mesh lifts up off the liner a bit, about 1/4", but a little less is OK. Let that cure for a day. Now the mesh will be much more rigid. You should now be able to skim a layer of mortar on with a trowel. Nothing fancy, a thin coat. Let that cure for a day. Now you have a nice firm base. Now you can apply your finish coat. Easier to do the walls first and come back on do the floor. The no mesh way is easier but you use a lot more stucco. Pour the floor first. Say about 1" thick. It will crack but because it's the floor it really shouldn't go too far. By pour I don't mean pour like water. Mix the stucco so like mashed potatoes. Put it in the pond and tamp it down until about 1" thick. Because the stucco is thick you can get this initial "pour" to go up the sides a bit, do that. Let this cure a couple of weeks if you need to stand inside the pond to do the walls. If you can hang over the walls you only need to wait a day for curing, or really even just a few hours. The floor now acts to hold up the stucco you're about to add. You go around the pond adding stucco maybe a 6" course at a time, or whatever works for you. Let each course cure for at least a few hours so it can support the next course. When done you can now add a final finish coat. I would say 3/4" thickness with no mesh would be the minimum. There's a fiberglass reinforcement for stucco you can use in the base coat. It can stick out of the stucco so not good for the final coat. I've said stucco but you can use mortar, same basic thing these days. You can use a synthetic stucco for the final coat but to me not worth the cost. You can add color to the final coat if you like. If you age the final coat just do what's above the water line. Just no point doing below the water line and the acid removes cement that you want. There are lots of people who say cement in a pond should be acid washed to keep the pH down in the pond later. Bad myth. It does nothing but expose new fresh cement. Cement carbonizes, kind of like rust, which seals the underlying cement from reacting with the water. This is why cured cement doesn't dissolve in water. The voids behind the stucco caused by folds will fill with water, the stucco structure is far from water tight. That equalizes pressure so the result is no pressure on the stucco.

Very nice.

I saw your post yesterday and surprised no one has responded. We live in zone 7 and have no problem with freezing pipes etc. We've had winters where the ice on top of the pond is 8" deep. I believe you'll have to go a little deeper in one section for the fish to overwinter in zone 4. We have a 3 1/2 foot section and our fish overwinter in that part of the pond. We have a bottom drain, and a DIY gravity fed filter system. If you want koi, you should consider putting in a bigger pond, if you just want a few goldfish your size is adequate. This is basically how we did ours (in the beginning) We used three tubs buried in the ground, the water level in the tubs are the same as the pond. The pump(s) are in the last tub. After the water goes through all the tubs it returns to the pond. After that (the next year) we added a biological pond that the water travels to via underground, goes through a biological pond then returns to the main pond. I'm an not suggesting that method for you, only explaining that later on we needed more filtration cause we had a lot of koi. I am providing the link to our pond plans and diagrams for you. Once you get there check out the links on our website and go to Chuck Rush's website for good information. You have this entire winter to think things through and that's a good thing. Starting out knowing you want a bottom drain is a good thing as well, as it is the single most important thing you'll do for your pond. Everything else you can improve upon later. For instance we added our skimmer the second year. Again it was a DIY job, and it's housed under the small dock on back of our pond. We only use the skimmer is spring and fall. If you want shelves all around for a very natural look, here is how we did ours, dig a shelf all around pile flat rock and round rocks too, up to ground level then on the ground as well, in between you can move the rocks and plant hidden pots with plants. When you look into the pond you will not see any liner all around the perimeter of the pond. Welcome to the forum and good luck with your armchair pond planing! In the mean time I hope some zone 4 ponders jump in here. Joann Here is a link that might be useful: Pond plans and diagrams