Unknown bourbon or hybrid perpetual
Any thoughts? Just took this pic 5 minutes ago. It is a two cane wonder right now, but lots of new sprouts are coming up from the roots (I know they are the same rose because I planted this one as a rooted cutting which I rooted), so I have hope in getting a larger looking bush. It blooms for 10 months, and is incredibly fragrant.
Jackie
Comments (33)
AquaEyes 7a NJ
10 years ago
mendocino_rose
10 years agoRelated Discussions
Non climbing Bourbons, Hybrid Perpetuals
Comments (7)Souvenir de St. Anne's was very promising but I had to take it out because the blooms with few petals fried very quickly in my extreme radiant heat. For you it should be beautiful. Romaggi Plot Bourbon is another beautiful small Bourbon but it also was too delicate for the heat here. It's a lovely rose. Leveson-Gower is supposedly a sport of SdlM but that is disputed. A comment in HMFR states it's less disease-resistant than SdlM. I've grown it and it has a more shaggy look to the blooms....See MoreHybrid Perpetuals + hot, humid summers = bad combo?
Comments (72)Perle's scent is very light. Her apricot blooms fade more quickly in sun, but they are charming either way. Perle is quite thorny and grows into a substantial bush. In its shadier location, my Perle can easily top 6 feet even when pruned regularly. Her buds are like tiny high centered Hybrid Tea buds. She is very healthy. Like Marie, Perle blooms late spring through fall. Something else to note about Marie Pavie: she's thornless. Carol...See MoreMme Caroline Testout/ early HT or a Hybrid Perpetual?
Comments (15)Hi vesfl, reports of La France's parentage remain speculation, from "seedling found in seed bed", to "suspected seedling of Mme Falcot" and "possible seedling of Mme. Victor Verdier X Mme Bravy". This opens that old Pandora's Box of how a rose should be classified. Should it be by breeding or how it appears or performs, what someone should realistically expect from it? Where do those lines begin? Using Weigand's Symphony as an example, from breeding (HP X HT), it should be a Hybrid Tea as they were generally accepted as Hybrid Perpetual X Tea or HT, but if you bought it, expecting a Hybrid Tea, you would be disappointed as it doesn't LOOK like nor perform/grow like one. How about Lady Hillingdon? It's generally accepted to be more cold hardy than the average "Tea" and it strongly resembles the "Tea look". 1910 is quite late for a Tea to be bred and released, but if you bought it expecting a Hybrid Tea, you would probably be disappointed because it LOOKS more Tea-like. Charlotte Armstrong and many of her descendants looked more Tea-like. Compare how Lemon Spice and Lady Hillingdon look and grow and you see strong similarities between them, as well as strong differences. Had Lemon Spice appeared half a century earlier, it may have been introduced as a Tea because it doesn't "look" like the post Peace HTs. Peace, for that matter, reintroduced more of the Hybrid Perpetual look into Hybrid Teas. I propose had it been introduced forty years earlier, it could well have been marketed as the long sought after yellow HP. How about Sally Holmes? It is a floribunda crossed with what we call a Hybrid Musk, but the Hybrid Musk (Ballerina) in question is by all appearances a Hybrid Multiflora, as the vast majority of them have been and are. We call Sally a shrub or climber, depending upon how she responds to where and how she is grown, but in strictly breeding lines, she should be a Hybrid Musk or Hybrid Multiflora. The same is true of Iceberg. Robin Hood (hybrid musk/shrub, but also from performance in many places, simply a polyantha) X Virgo (Hybrid Tea). Breeding should have it called a Hybrid Musk, but if you bought one expecting that type of rose, would you be satisfied? La France looked and performed differently from what came before it, therefore it was something "new". Many other HP X Tea or HT crosses had been raised and a number released before it, but nothing else LOOKED differently, looked like La France, therefore La France was the "first". Guillot reportedly considered it a "Hybrid Bourbon". There is always that bleed over when different lines of anything, from plants, through animals (including Humans) are inter bred. The accepted "breeding" traits of an organism may or may not express themselves in a generation under scrutiny and may not for a number of generations. That fouls up our practice of classifying or pigeon-holing what ever it is into groups so we can figure out what to expect from them. Pragmatically, La France "quacks like a duck"... so if you want a Hybrid Tea appearance and performance, you buy it as a Hybrid Tea. If you want something that looks and performs like a Hybrid Perpetual, you buy Symphony....See MoreFavorite Bourbon or Hybrid perpetual?
Comments (20)Grandmother's Hat Paul Neyron Souvenir de la Malmaison Rouge Souvenir de a Malmaison La Reine MIP Reine des Violettes Cannot find images but really like: Baronne Prevost Barbara's Pasture Rose Marchesa Boccella Gloire de Ducher... love the color of its blooms Comte de Chambord.., very healthy and tolerates the heat well Souvenir du President Lincoln Old Town Novato Maggie Larry Daniels... I prefer the bloom color vs. that of Grandmother's Hat Lisa- Your Baronne Prevost bloom is the prettiest I have ever seen! Ken- your CdC bloom is beautiful!...See Morezjw727
10 years ago
portlandmysteryrose
10 years agojacqueline9CA
10 years ago
Kippy
10 years agozjw727
10 years agojacqueline9CA
10 years agoportlandmysteryrose
10 years agoKippy
10 years agocath41
10 years agoUser
10 years agomendocino_rose
10 years agoLeighsroses
10 years agoJackie,
They look very similar to the Gruss an Teplitz that I saw at the new Ruth's Rose Garden at FSC campus. It is listed as a Bourbon by Paul Barden from the late 1800s. It is listed as a hybrid tea by Helpmefind. Reds are very hard to photograph and I hope I attached the correct picture from my phone. At any rate, yours is a beautiful rose! Btw, Malcolm also photographed this rose and it is featured on his photos of the new garden taken about a week ago on page 2.
Vicissitudezz
9 years ago
jerijen
9 years agoJackie -- The color on this photo is pretty accurate on my screen, FWIW.
This is the Dupuis Jamain I got from Jim Delahanty, who grew it for years. IIRC, JD said that it was not a really generous repeat bloomer.
(JERI)
Vicissitudezz
9 years agoprickles
9 years agoIt looks like Dupuis Jamain to my eyes. But I don't remember DJ having a strong scent when I stiffed him.
jacqueline9CA
9 years agoprickles
9 years agojerijen
9 years agoVicissitudezz
9 years agoVicissitudezz
9 years agoVicissitudezz
9 years agojerijen
9 years ago
monarda_gw
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agojerijen
2 years agojacqueline9CA
2 years agoJeri - yes I did, but it was a long time ago and now I forget who told me, but it was probably someone at the Celebration of Old Roses. I think I was told it is Eugene de Beauharnais. The original picture I posted above is the first plant of this rose which I planted in the sun, and discovered it was NOT a once bloomer. Below is a pic of the original original rose, (planted by one of my DH's ancestors) still growing in mostly shade below the crab apple tree, Japanese quince, and several other roses. It blooms happily, but only in the Spring. I know the one above in my original post is the same rose, because I planted that one when the one below tip rooted and I dug up the baby plant.
I know you grow EdB, Jeri - what do you think? Amazing fragrance on all three of mine - the strongest "old rose" fragrance of all of the roses I have.Jackie
jacqueline9CA
2 years agojacqueline9CA
2 years agoOk, I finally had time to go out and take some pictures of the leaves, prickles, and buds of my wanna be Eugene de Beauharnais. I could not find any hips from last year - just dried up flower remnants. Jeri - does yours EdB set hips?
Here are the pics:
Jackie
note prickles below - on a mature cane, and a new cane below it - they are very small, but sharp and curved
jacqueline9CAOriginal Author