Wow, it must be hard to make rose decisions in a place where it's hard for a rose to die, Suzy. Sometimes i'm secretly glad when a rose that really doesn't thrive in my yard has the good grace to die over the winter, so I don't have to be a rose murderer. As for the rate of failure, it's definitely a product of being a zone pusher and wanting to try something different. Plenty of people in my zone have never lost a rose because they're smart enough to only plant roses suited for their climate- imagine that! I'm more like Ingrid, in sandandsun's timely quote, that I prefer to look at winter survival as a challenge rather than the roses of a particular type (or breeder) having a specific death wish in my garden. You're all absolutely right that knowing the breeder isn't enough to judge health, survival, or any other qualities in your yard. I absolutely do the kind of trial and error experimentation that Lyn was talking about in my own yard, it's just that I haven't really come up with particular patterns for what thrives in my yard, except for the obvious ones like "lavenders and russets are usually weak" (understatement of the year) or "roses with teas in their heritage are a long shot". Rick, I admire you for checking the breeding history of the roses, and it certainly would be a more logical approach with fewer failures. I'm afraid I don't follow the breeding history or even keep track of which parents do well for me, though I have noticed that climbers with New Dawn as a parent are likely to be a good match for my yard. Wow, Nastarana, I hadn't been familiar with Jacobus as a breeder but I looked up Dream Girl, and - wowza zowie is she ever! I love those fat blooms with swirled packed petals, and it's great to hear it thrives in zone 5. Might be a nice counterpart to Nahema on my fence. You ought to share your observations with Helpmefind, since there was very limited personal information on this rose. Where did you get yours? Cynthia

I have ordered a few of his roses to try, although I will grow them in pots for a while. I almost ordered Tipu's Flame, but I wasn't sure about the fact that it had so many hybrid tea parents, and how that might affect disease resistance for me. I do not usually spray, and when I do it is something like Organicide. I hope we'll hear from people who are trying it in a hot and humid climate, as I love red roses. I am, however, going to try Coffee Country, Faith Whittlesey, and Krishna's Peach. I am very hopeful about Krishna's Peach, as Safrano is one of the parents. Safrano is superb down here. Sandy

That was the problem with many/most of the Teas and older HTs floridarose. That is one of the things which led Pernet to mine the solid color from Foetida. China roses seem the source of the heat and light intensifying colors, think Mutabilis. Look at G�n�ral Galli�ni and G�n�ral Schablikine and you can see that kind of influence, but most Teas and their hybrids wash out quickly in high heat and brilliant light. Until Soliel d'Or, "yellow" was old floor wax and many other pigments faded quickly like many of the early Wichurana ramblers. I hope Krishna's Peach holds more color for you, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It doesn't seem to be in its genes. Very nice rose, otherwise, though.

I think you can’t go wrong with a second Evelyn, Ingrid. As I said before, she loves our dry heat. I didn’t catch up on this thread until now, or I would have reminded you that my Louise Odier is probably Grandmother’s Hat. ( Add me to the list of people not feeling well, lately.) I’m still not 100% sure who she is, but she’s certainly a winner here. I purchased her as Louise Odier from RVR. I was going to suggest you might order Louise Odier from RVR, and see what happens, but they deal mainly in band size roses. Now that I have more Bourbon roses, I’m convinced mine isn’t Louise Odier. Her growth habit is more upright, instead of cascading once the canes become longer. She’s also FAR cleaner, foliage wise than my other Bourbons. Isn't Daisy’s climate similar to ours? Perhaps you could have a look at her roses to give you some ideas. I bought the DA ‘Perdita’ after seeing hers do so well. Unfortunately I thought I was doing Perdita a favor by planting her in partial shade, apparently Perdita needs far more sun than many DA’s, even in So CA. She hasn’t bloomed at all since I planted her out. That means I’ll have to move her. As Roselady said, Princess Charlene de Monaco grows to at LEAST 8F high here. I do remember Cori Ann saying hers needed extra water, and would appreciate some PM shade. My two PCDM’s receive full sun, but my soil is heavy, rich clay, quite different from yours. For the past two years, my very favorite nursery has had lots of grafted PCDM’s in 3? 5? gallon containers at exactly this time of year. If you’re considering PCDM at all, I’d suggest buying her locally, so you’d get a large plant to start with. The nursery is Walter Andersen in Poway. They also carry a large assortment of David Austins. If you’re both up to it, have a look at Walter Andersen’s. They carry many different roses, and also many native and rabbit resistant plants. Lisa