I think that the common names, while often lovely, are not useful in talking about plants. And you're right that use of common names causes much confusion. Anyone who can say Rhododendron, Clematis, or Iris is capable of learning the rest of botanical nomenclature.

I agree. If people prefer to use common names, they should include the correct botanical name in parentheses. It was to avoid confusion (among other reasons) that scientific names were developed!

I agree with the above posters. Along similar lines I object to gardeners and some garden seed companies referring to plants as annual or perennial based on their geographical location. Al

My opinion is going to be different than some The common names were created by and for common/casual/the-majority-of gardeners who donÂt want to, and donÂt intend to learn another language in order to plant a few shrubs, annuals and perennials. These casual gardeners make up the vast majority of the folks who buy plants and gardening stuff. They come to forums like this one to learn a little about foxgloves, weeping willows, purple coneflowers. They arenÂt going to look up botanical translations to ask when to transplant their daylily and I donÂt think we should try to force them to. Why is it up to anyone of us to choose a right or wrong way to talk about plants? After all, people who know all the botanical names presumably know the common ones too. If someone says Âblack eyed susan itÂs not that difficult to find out what they mean. For the botanists and hybridizers, by all means use all the botanical names you want.

I believe using either/both ways is better. I donÂt intend to discuss Lycopersicon esculentum, IÂm just gonna say tomato.

"IÂm just gonna say tomato. "

Ok if I say tom-ah-to? ;o)

I believe that the forum is largely used by beginning gardeners or even serious hobbyists who should feel completely comfortable in coming in here and posting their questions about their (common name) plants.

Those who are intrigued or interested enough in helping with a solution don't usually get their knickers in a twist if they have to do a bit of detective work.

It does work both ways. Just today, in another forum, participants were expressing feeling intimidated by the use of scientific nomenclature and terms. THAT, I believe, is a real shame.

The goal should be education.

Personally, I almost always use botanical names. I guess, in order to avoid confusion, especially among folks from different areas/countries, botanical names are better, but it's not a big deal to me if others use common names. I think there have only been a few occasions here on the forum where the use of a common name *really* confused me because the poster was talking about a plant, and using a common name which in my experience meant a whole 'nother plant altogether.

But overall, again, while I prefer botanical names, I would never want to make someone feel inferior or intimidated by the use of them.

:)
Dee

I'm also a huge fan of botanical names. Granted everyone has the option as to what to use, but why wouldn't you want to educated yourself when it's so easy to do? If you know how to post on this forum I would assume you know how to Google? To me it's kind of like visiting a foreign country. It's to your advantage to at least make an attempt at speaking the native language even if it's only a few phrases.

I've also learned not to trade with folks who don't know the botanical names of what they have. I've been burned several times in the past. I thought I was getting something other than what was sent. No more.

Kevin

It doesn't really bother me when people post questions using common names. I pride myself on my ability to find information on the web, and I just use it as another chance to learn something.

I use Firefox as my browser, and one of the extensions I have loaded is called Web Search Pro. With this extension, I can highlight a word or phrase, right-click on it, and immediately launch a new tab with a Google (or one of dozens of other sources) search.

As often as common names lead to confusion (Coneflower comes to mind), botanical names can also cause confusion. There are numerous synonyms for botanical names of many plants (Salix babylonica var. pekinensis is also Salix matsudana 'Tortuosa'). Others have had their taxonomy changed recently, and many vendors and information resources are still using the old name (Saccharum ravennae used to be Erianthus ravennae).

The only nomenclature error that bothers me is the Xerox-like use of some common names. I can't tell you how many times I've found folks using "Pampas Grass" to refer to any tall ornamental grass.

The more time I spend researching these things, the less confusing they become. I also find the regional nature of some common names fasinating, and would miss them if folks stopped using them.

Does anyone remember watching the Roadrunner cartoon as a little kid? I mean the one which came on Saturday mornings way back in the early 70's. Well, all of a sudden the action would stop for a couple seconds to show (made-up) Latin (not meaning Hispanic) names at the bottom of the tv screen, then resume in slow motion the chase between the Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote. My brother (younger than me) would laugh and laugh when I read those names aloud to him. And, good grief, ...to hear that laughter of his...very contagious...., who 'woulda thunk' that a Saturday morning cartoon would develop a love for Latin in later years? Not that I am any kind of expert in it, nope, not even close; however when reading it, speaking it, or writing it, the muffled up laughing starts with the memory of my brother laughing so hard. I'm bringing up a life story in hopes to relieve any intimidation factor someone may feel over the use of 'scientific names' or wherever one may find Latin (for instance in real estate, medicine, or law). And, yes, I believe using it is very educational, which is the goal. I am still learning! (Aun aprendo! P.S., Common names are nice and funny also. No telling how many times 'Elephant Ears' got dorked up when not meaning any of the Aroid ones, but my hibiscus bushes.

Imagine when you write a response to a thread on this forum that you are teaching gardening 101 at the local community college. You would lose the class interest if you didnÂt include common names. Catalogs understand the need to use both botanical and common names so that everyone will be able to understand them. I would like to see this forum remain friendly to anyone who wants to stop by for advice. Do we really find common names all that confusingÂespecially since 90% of the threads include cultivar names? Use only botanical names if you like, but itÂs gonna exclude newbies that donÂt want to become plant collectors. Just MHO.

In past years, it had always been commonly agreed upon here to use botanical names to avoid confusion.

This is a big pet peeve of mine, but I'm on the other side of the fence.

I once used only latin names but they seem increasingly useless. The problem is they are less stable then the common ones.

There is a native aster around here called Sky Blue Aster by everyone I know. I first learned it as the very understandible name - Aster azureus. Then I had to get used to Aster oolentangiensis. Now it's now longer in the genus Aster (the whole genus has been divived into 4 new genuses) and I have no idea what the correct name is. I'm glad scientist are getting a fuller understand of plant genetics , but it doesn't change the way plants get used in the garden. Further I'm sure you can find nurseries selling this plant under all it different names - confusing!

How many different names has Sweet Autumn Clematis had? I can think of at least three. I miss the genus Cimicifuga - they seem different then Actea in ways that are important to gardeners.

I wish some group with standing in the community, maybe the Perennial Plant Association, would come up with a standard fixed name for a plant that would stay with it no matter what the taxonimist do. That way I'll always be able to find Sky Blue Aster when I need it.

Rant over

Ted

I was expecting this thread to be another in a series of complaints by gardeners here about how botanical names are too complicated to use. :)

I use both common and botanical names in many cases, so that as many people as possible will know what I'm talking about. Many times there is no widely used common name.

Speaking of "black-eyed Susan" - there's a good example of how lack of a precise name can cause trouble. You might use that name to mean Rudbeckia hirta, while someone else would be thinking of Rudbeckia 'Goldsturm' or another related species or variety. The botanical names not only limit confusion, but as you go along you pick up a little plant Latin and get hints from the name about how the plant looks or what its needs are.

I get ticked off at the taxonomists and their repeated name changes as well (I think they invent new classifications for job security sometimes). There's nothing wrong with being a little slow to keep up. Lots of people in this forum will know what you mean by Chrysanthemum pacificum, even if the new genus name is Ajania.

If common names are all a person knows, I hope they would feel very free to post here. A forum like this should never be exclusionary. But the fact is that common names are very confusing. They are different from one place to another and from one era to another. Or a plant called daisy could be any one of dozens of plants. So if you know botanical names, use them (in parentheses for those who might be intimidated). And if you don't know them, jump in anyway. Most people will make an effort to figure it out.

Now who knows what "mutton-sass" is? I know someone trying to figure out this so-called common name right now.

Common names can definitely be confusing, but some of them
can be downright charming or illuminating (Doesn't "Blazing
Star" have a little more zing to it than liatris?). . .many
years ago, I first discovered Montauk daisies on the east
end of Long Island (duh!) and fell in love with them. . .
but for years I couldn't find them for myself, until I finally discovered I should have been asking for Chrysanthemum nipponicum! Oops! ARE they still chrysanthemums? They've been playing havoc with this name for a number of years now, and I understand we are now going BACK to the C. word!

Now there's the real problem: how can we expect new folks
to learn their Latin if the Nomenclature Police can't make
up there minds?!! I can remember embarrassing the heck out
of myself some years back at a major Flower Show when I
indignantly pointed out to an exhibitor that all of his
Ligularia were incorrectly labeled (The Nomenclature Police
had forgotten to send me the postcard announcing the change
to a new name, Farfugia) - for all I know, that name change
may have been reversed, but everyone I know still calls
them Ligularia. . . All you can do is shrug your shoulders
and plow on :)

Almost as mind-boggling as the names may be at times, it's
the pronunciations that crack me up! And I've been as bad
as most - it took me years before I discovered that it's
the first syllable that gets accented in Heuchera, not
hew-CARE-a. . .no wonder they never understood what I was
looking for! In recent years, my saving grace has been the remarkable pronunciation guide available on-line with
"Fine Gardening", an archiv of the monthly listings in the
bi-monthly magazine.

So, yes, those of us who are comfortable with the latin botanical names should certainly continue using them (for all the correct reasons, like clarity and specificity), but
I, for one, am always happy to be an educator and have a
discourse with common names if that's where the other party
is coming from. A great many of the visitors passing through my garden are always quick to pick out the common-
named plants they know, a daisy here, a daylily there; but
as soon as I'm aware of their Latin-challenged limitations,
I quickly start pointing out the many patches of (botantically) geraniums amongst the plantings. They're astonished: "THOSE aren't geraniums!" they exclaim. "Oh, but they ARE," I reply - and so the dialog begins. . .

The next time you feel impatient with someone not using the
proper Latin, just imagine if you were making a complaint
to your doctor, and he only knew the Latin term "myocardial
infarction", but not the common name (heart attack!) that
you were gasping. . .

"..I finally discovered I should have been asking for Chrysanthemum nipponicum! Oops! ARE they still chrysanthemums? They've been playing havoc with this name for a number of years now, and I understand we are now going BACK to the C. word!"

IIRC, they've gone from C. nipponicum through Leucanthemum nipponicum to the current moniker of Nipponanthemum nipponicum.

I didn't get the memo about going back to Chrysanthemum.

I just want one name for one plant - I don't care how complicated it is - just as long as it's stable. I'm glad to know it's not only me.

Ted

Donn, thanks for the tip about Firefox and highlighting a term for quick search. I don't have that extension added, but it worked anyhow just like you said. That is very handy!

It is a pain when they change names for sure. I use a hand written index card inventory system and its becoming all too frequent that I have to think of old-name, new-name and do a mental cross reference. I guess its time to automate.

If I can pronounce it I will usually use the latin. Unless however the common name is so well known that it would sound pretentious to say otherwise (eg: A bacon, Lactuca sativa and Lycopersicum esculentum sandwich).

I LOVE garden web and all the forums. But there is no way I'll search every latin name for a plant if used in a post, I'll move on to something I understand. If both are used that would be a great help. I did notice that Jackson Perkins mostly uses common names and when I tried to duplicate that order with Bluestone, some guessing occured. I've loved gardens and gardening my whole life but only in the last 3 years have been able to devote time to it. I feel like an old sage when my daughter uses term Monarda, lol.

I typically use latin names, but it just depends. If I can't remember what it is, I'll use the common name. I don't think it should matter, as long as you know what the poster is talking about. Sometimes the latin names are hard to spell - the other reason I'll sometimes stick with the common name.

The point is communication. Use whatever terminology gets your message across. Some plants don't have common names and many of you have been using botanical terminology for years, perhaps without realizing it. OTOH, many plants are so well known by their common names, using the botanicals is unnecessary and yes, pretentious. But do understand that common names are not universal, they often apply to multiple plants, sometimes quite varied, and they are often very regional in nature. If one is inquiring about a plant using only its local common name, there is a good possiblility it may be misidentified and therefore the information you receive flawed.

Personally, I find botanical names fascinating, as they are often indicators of the plant's origin or attributes. Not to mention totally delighful to say, as some of those multisyllabic monikers just tumble off the tongue :-) And one begins to understand the relationships of plants within the same botanical families. Knowledge is a powerful tool and gardening and plants provide endless opportunities to continue to learn and grow yourself. I'd encourage everyone to research and develop a knowledge of botanical names for their own benefit.

Funny, lots of times, I only know the Latin name(s).

Once, I had grown from seed some mesembryanthemum - and that was the only name I knew for it! I think I started a thread asking about transplanting it or something to that effect, as it was a new plant to me (free seeds), and I felt quite pretentious (and a bit ridiculous) when I kept on using this name (not to mention having to type it out over and over!), and I finally mentioned in the thread that I didn't know what the common name was, if any. Someone finally let me in that it was iceplant, which was really much easier to type - and say!

While I usually prefer Latin names, this was one time I was happy to use the common name!

:)
Dee

When it comes to mail-order nurseries, I've found that catalogs/websites that include botanical names with every listing are more likely to send you the right plant, and deal in better quality plants (compared to nurseries that list mostly just common names or even make up names of their own). It probably has to do with whether the owners are really into gardening, as opposed to mass-marketing a commodity.

As a garden consultant, I advise people never to order from a catalog that gives only the common name. Most give both, though many of the catalogs I order from give only the botanical name.

I've been gardening for 8 years. i also worked in the medical field for several years. I have learned plenty of latin. Don't you hate it when you go to a doctor who uses and the large medical terms and you have no idea what's wrong with you when he's done. Don't you feel like he's being a show off. "Look how smart I am". Knowing the latin terms is great, I learn new ones all the time. Do I use them? NO not unless necessary

I learned most of what I know about perennials from books; so, I learned the Latin name. I don't know many of the common names. Add to that the problem of several plants going by the same name and mail order companies making up common names, and the situation defies my comprehension. I have started a flow chart of Latin nomenclature changes, and I refer to plants by both the "old" Latin name and the new one. (Of course there is always the problem of old "old" Latin names, e.g. Gertrude Jekyll's Megaseas.) I would hope that new gardeners would not be put off from using Latin names because they are intimated by the Latin pronunciation. They should realize that there is no standard prounuciation. While I normally try to follow the Church Latin pronunciations, I also make exceptions for those plants named in honor of persons with non-Latin surnames. Heucher=HOY-kehr-a Forsythe=For-SITHE-eea Kniphof=Knip-HOFF-eea And then there are personal quirks -- I say hoe-sta. (I just can't be hostile toward my plants. ;> ) I don't correct anyone's way of saying it, as long as I can figure out what he or she means.

Of all the above posts only one picked up on the point that the originator was a Brit and his point was that common names in the US may refer to a different plant in the UK. My personal solution is that if I don't know what plant the inquirer is referring to I simply do not post a follow-up. Even in this country Geranium refers to Geraniums and Pelargoniums and so although I am a grower and lover of Geraniums I avoid that forum. In some cases I have gotten so used to the Latin name that I forget what the common name is. Anbd sometimes the Latin name is a literal translation of the common name.

Why do you think that only one person noticed that the original poster was British? I think that's an incorrect assumption. Only one person may have mentioned it because the poster's nationality is irrelevant to the question at hand. In fact, the entire point is that common names are imprecise and often vary widely from one person to another, not just from one country to another.

Exactly, ginny12. I noticed it immediately, but don't think it makes a bit of difference to the topic at hand.

And count me in as another person who uses the Latin (and searches for it if I have only the common name). It's the only way to be sure that you're talking about the same plant as another person, short of being with them in person and actually pointing to the plant.

Iceplant.

Is mesembryanthemum the same as delospermum?

Mesembryanthemum is an annual iceplant. Delosperma is a perennial. As far as I know that is the difference. (Although in my garden, I've had such a difficult time getting delosperma to overwinter, maybe there IS no difference, lol!)

:)
Dee

And herein lies the problem - "ice plant" is commonly used to refer to plants from at least 10 different genera: Carpobrotus, Delosperma, Lampranthus, Aptenia, Malephora, Cephalopyllum, Sarcozona, Oscularia, Drosanthemum and Cryophytum (formerly Mesembryanthemum). How in the world would anyone ever know to which one was referring if using only the common name?