Hello Eileen, thanks, nice to meet you! Whenever possible, I try to be as thorough as I can, probably too much so, but you can't make informed choices if you don't have the information. The times I've been able to mine high levels of information about a rose (or anything else) before making my choice, I've enjoyed it much more. Grandmother's Hat shares so many very similar textures and colors with Annie Laurie McDowell, I think your idea would be beautiful. It is obvious they are two different roses, but when you get up close and personal with them, you can see so many similarities in new growth texture and color, flower color, petal texture, occasionally similar flower shape, scent type, that one "completes" the other. I am certain they share similar basic parents, but who knows what those might be? Grandmother's Hat is a "found" rose which defies identification, which is why I provided Bierkreek with material to be grown and studied in Europe. It's been impossible here to put a name to her. Perhaps, someone there can compare her to your wonderful rose collections and finally make the identification? Hans also has all of her permutations we have found, Larry Daniels, Tina Marie, Striped Grandmother's Hat, as it is quite possible Grandmother is a sport and one of her "sports" is actually the reversion. The nurseryman who promoted her the most and discovered Tina Marie and Larry Daniels stated his crop traditionally mutated from Grandmother to Larry roughly 30% of the time which should mean the shift to Larry should be a reversion to or toward the original form. Hans also has several other found roses from here in California I included, hoping someone over there might identify them. Thanks belong to Jeri Jennings for allowing me to collect the material from her lovely garden. There has long been an article about the similarities between Grandmother and Annie mulling over in my head which hasn't fully worked itself out yet. If you grow these two and Gloire des Rosomanes, you will find all three possess strong nearly familial resemblances. It makes perfect sense with Annie and Gloire if you believe the originally stated parentage behind Renae instead of the much later "correction", Mr. Moore suggested nearly five decades after Renae was introduced. Initially, it was stated that the pollen parent was a rose he created called Sierra Snowstorm, which resulted from Gloire des Rosomanes crossed with Dorothy Perkins. Closely studying Annie and Gloire des Rosomanes will show you many shared plant characteristics, which I feel demonstrate either that Annie is a descendant, or they share very close common ancestors. Grandmother's Hat resembles Gloire des Rosomanes in many plant characteristics such as texture of new growth, petal substance, fragrance, plant colors and scent of its growth parts. Both have very nicely scented sepals, peduncles and new growth tips and both can easily be supported to create climbing effects. If you would enjoy a very interesting, enjoyable study, plant all three close to each other so you may study them and delight in their wonderful similarities. Not that they are interchangeable in any way, but they are obviously related. I just haven't figured out the connection other than the one between Gloire des Rosomanes and Annie Laurie McDowell. My Grandmother's Hat grows next to a six foot vinyl fence and is partially supported by a huge, very happy Kona hibiscus which helps keep her more upright as she grows tall, sharing the flowers with the neighbor over the fence. It doesn't really shade her, so her height isn't elongated as she reaches for light. She'll flower on three to four foot canes, then produce new growth just below the flowers, shooting up another two to four feet before breaking into another cluster of blooms. With support, this is repeated several times, permitting her to be trained as a climber. If her canes are taken off the vertical, equalizing the sap pressure along the cane, she will begin breaking into laterals and producing flowers along the cane like a traditional climber is expected to. With decent soil and climate, Grandmother doesn't need budding, she will grow perfectly own root and roots quite easily. In my climate, Grandmother's Hat very seldom forms hips, the flowers and peduncles drying and shriveling instead. This fall I have found six hips on her and collected a few seeds to plant to see what germinates, so dead heading is not necessary for her to continue flowering. The small, dried, spent flowers will require removal if that bothers you, but it isn't really that noticeable with her luxurious foliage mass. I'd think if you can make sure many of both Annie's and Grandmother's canes were grown low enough for you to be able to bury your face in to enjoy their scents, you'd enjoy them much more. It would definitely be a shame to only have them above your head where you can't easily see and smell them. Please be sure to fondle Grandmother frequently so she will scent your hands with her sweet, peppery cedar scent. On warm, moist days, both the flower and plant fragrances are very noticeable in the air close to the plant. She has few prickles, Annie has never had any in my experience, so personal contact with her doesn't usually result in injury, but it does enhance her "experience". Annie will definitely provide more shade with her greater growth and foliage mass than Grandmother will and both can easily be expected to flower year round in my climate. One of these days, I will have a situation where I can plant all of the various Grandmother's Hat permutations, Gloire des Rosomanes and Annie Laurie McDowell close to each other to make their study and enjoyment much easier. That would be a wonderfully pleasing grouping! I hope that helps. If you have room for a largish, probably once flowering, intensely fragrant rose, try Nessie. She's only available commercially there in Italy from Le Rose di Piedimonte and is shown on their site as currently available. Ironic that I had to search for her here after moving my garden, yet she's readily commercially available to you. Also, that even after contacting them requesting they correct the spelling of my name, it remains misspelled. I raised her from seed of Montecito, which has been disputed as possibly being Brunonii, and I am fairly certain the pollen was from Mlle. Cecile Brunner as that is what I used most heavily on it and the plant highly resembles what I would expect from the cross. Translated from their site, this is their description. "Slightly hazy pale pink semi-double flowers of apricot of medium size and long yellow stamens in evidence. Intense and spicy, elegant dark green foliage, semi-gloss. So called from his breeder in memory of the "monster" in Loch Ness, because of exuberantly throwing its branches arching out of the plots of cultivation, growing rapidly up to 3 meters. It has a good re-flowering. Numerous and large orange berries." She never repeated for me in the mid desert, but seems to have the ability in a milder one. Now she's returned home to me, I might experience that here, I hope. She's also been rudely healthy in my experience and her fragrance impresses itself on your memory as Annie's and Grandmother's do. I hope you can find room for her in your garden and will report back with lots of "baby pictures" and your impressions. Thank you! Kim Here is a link that might be useful: Nessie

I will get a pic of a cone this weekend. My partner's parents own the house, he will be inheriting it sooner rather than later. We take care of it and are getting it ready to rent out. There has been no pruning on the trees. The pruning you see is courtesy of massive lake effect and wind. Great huh. Nope pic was taken two winters ago LOL definitely not yesterday! Way too early for that kind of stuff! I think it was right around Christmas two years ago. We bought a house in the city so no more pretty woods around us. Ken, I read that they can actually live hundreds of years. Doesn't mean they look great, but still, they can live hundreds of years. If they were near the house, they'd be down, but they aren't hurting anything right now except the plum and apple tree so they stay. I think they are very pretty. I'd never plant one, though.

Eduarda, I believe that I have Ispahan. I have divided it and planted it in several areas because of its fragrance and lasting qualities. Only blooms once a year, but it is smothered in blooms and they continue for about 8 weeks The fragrance completely fills my entire yard. (this is the one I am sending to you, Kathy). I have never smelled anything like it! Like you, I would not want to be without it. I checked it out on the internet, and I am certain this is my favorite rose. You may have just helped me finally ID it. If so, I will be so happy to finally know her name! She grows into a tall bush, but also is great for pillar growing and grown over an arbor. Long, slender canes and very few prickles (thorns). Not mean at all. A pure sweetheart of a rose. Here is a photo I took of her the 2nd year I had her. I scanned it and made a file a few years ago. My photos of her aren't very good. Can't ever seem to capture her actual beauty and no way I can describe her fragrance. I wish I could somehow share it with everyone on here. : What do you think? ~Annie

borderokie, It is my understanding that 2, 4 d is not very effective on trumpet creeper, but I wanted to go and see if I could find some research that supported that belief. I found research that does, indeed, support it and have linked that research below. Unfortunately in the study referenced in this report, there is no data available on whether or not Tordon killed trumpet creeper, so I guess they didn't test that herbicide on that plant. One problem with 2, 4 d is that it has been around a long time and research has shown that many plant species develop a resistance to, or tolerance of, specific herbicides when they are used in a widespread manner over a period of many years. The chemical industry keeps coming up with new herbicides or they tweak the formulas of the existing ones because of the way plants become almost immune to the older ones. Another issue with some herbicides in recent years is that some newer forumulations have esters that are more volatile and therefore travel more readily through the air when sprayed and kill plants far from their intended target plants. The formulations that have amines instead of esters are not as volatile in the air and do not cause such severe issues with herbicide drift. However, the amine formulations are less effective than the ester formulations. I have had trouble in some years with herbicide drift damaging and killing vegetable garden plants when nearby pastures are sprayed with a herbicide. That is frustrating, but I don't say anything to the ranchers whose herbicides likely harmed my plants. I just cringe when I see them spraying and I then cross my fingers and hope the wind is carrying the herbicide in some other direction and not towards my garden. It hasn't happened in several years now, so maybe they have switched from an ester product to an amine one. Jenny, I am glad I am not the only one who loves these invasive plants. If I lived in some places, like in the southeastern USA where they are horribly invasive on a scale we likely cannot imagine here, I likely wouldn't love them and grow them. However, we have enough recurring drought, normally dry summers and enough cold winter temperatures that I think they are somewhat less invasive here. My trumpet creepers that grow on the driveway arbor down by the mail box almost died in 2011 and I wasn't sure if they'd survive, but they did. I adore jasmine, lilacs and honeysuckle too, but of those three, I only have coral honeysuckle at this time. Jasmine tends to freeze out here in an extra-cold winter and the lilacs are fine until we have a long, cold winter/spring and then they die in perpetually wet clay soil. Now that I have a garden plot out back of the barn that has well-drained sandy soil, I may plant lilac again. I agree about using planting as a way to reduce mowing. After we first moved here, we had to mow about 4 acres of open land in order to keep the grassland areas short for both fire protection and to keep the snake population down. We are in our 15th year here, and every year we have less and less to mow. We now mow about an acre less than we did back then. I hope to just keep planting and planting until we have even less to mow. My other strategy was to get rid of bermuda grass by shading it out. Our trees and shrubs have gotten big enough now that we are seeing the bermuda grass start to recede in the increasingly shady yard. As an area gets too shady for bermuda, I am replacing grass with low-growing shrubs, shade-loving perennials and ground covers. My hope is that by the time Tim retires in a few more years, he'll have something to look forward to beyond mowing a huge lawn and pasture area twice a week. I guess I should stop calling it a pasture and start calling it a meadow because no domestic animals have been pastured on it since we moved here. Down south of Thackerville, there is a home where they have trumpet creeper growing on a barbed wire fence that separates their yard from the adjacent pasture. I 'd guess it is growing on a fence about 100' long. I think it looks pretty all the time, but when it is in bloom, it is truly spectacular. I've long thought about growing it on our barbed wire fence line that runs along our south property line, though I've never taken the plunge and planted it there. Most of the 'trash trees' I've planted, like the mimosa and chinaberry, were planted because (a) we had them in our yard when I was a kid so they are sentimental favorites, and (b) the wildlife love their flowers. Sometimes there are plants that you just have to grow because growing them makes you happy. At our house, the trash trees, wisteria and trumpet creeper plants are in that category for me. I even love pink evening primrose despite its invasiveness. It looks so pretty when it is in bloom,though I do try to keep it away from the vegetable garden. The challenge here is that most of our soil is dense, red clay and the plants that will tolerate wet, heavily-saturated clay in very wet years often won't survive hard-as-a-rock dry clay in very dry years, and vice versa. So, when I find a plant that tolerates the clay in both extremes, I grow it and I learn to love it. Trumpet creeper is one of a handful of really persistent plants in the category that I describe in this way: "it won't die and you can't kill it'. That's why I love it so here, on our property, where the wildly fluctuating moisure levels and temperatures can be so hard on wimpier plants. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Herbicide Research on Specific Weeds