moonie 57,

No matter how much money you throw at it, the many opinions on what to do that present themselves, or your ponding experience; it all comes down to time. Your pond needs time to cycle.

I have been through the ups and downs of the cycling (like clear green brown green clear green brown green green clear) Now 10 months into ponding, I've had a good month of clear water; my water has cycled.

In that time I have seen my water go green from heat, introduction of plants, increase in in fish load, loss of filter system for short time, and even introduction of algae food ( didn't really "bury" plants tabs correctly for lilies). but (after some time) it always corrected itself).

The circulation of your water is key (don't left the water just sit there and fester) Look at a skippy for the second pump.

An article I would recommend is by a man by the name of Norm Meck (link below).

All in all, don't sweat the small stuff and give it time.

LP

Here is a link that might be useful: Norm Meck on green water

Ditto on the skippy for the second pump. It worked for my pond and also for my daughters. Along with a lot of patience. Glenda

Ultimately, time and plants should solve your problem. The pond needs to build up bacteria to help process the fish wastes and that will take time. The plants will remove the nutrients that the algae needs to grow. See the postings under "Clear My Water" lower on this list.

Rick

This whole mess is extremely frustrating, what with all the contradictory info one can find on the web. I realize I am not alone in this frustration but please forgive me for being self-absorbed at the moment. :)

I had read Norm Meck's article yesterday, and also read on the Skippy filter site. This is two things that got me.. from the Skippy site.. "a good filter will trap the algae" and from Norm Meck, algae is so small it will pass through any filtering device. GAH!

So, in my homemade filter, I am using those cleaning pads... bunches of them all cut into strips. However, the pump is simply sitting in the bottom of the pond. I plan on wrapping it in quilt batting today. Have decided NOT to clean either filter at this point but will add a water lettuce to head of the waterfall.

So about cycling.. just to make sure I understand in regards to my own pond... Yesterday I added plants, and will add more duckweed today after a trip to the local pond. So actual cycling will begin after these introductions are made, correct? What about rainwater or replenishing with well water after evaporation? How much effect does this have on the overall balancing of the pond?

I also am pondering adding some water from the local pond. Is this equal to adding established clear water from another homemade pond? And can I expect at least some clarity in the water even if it's not a total sparkling job?

In regards to the Skippy filter. What is it about the Skippy that you guys like? Is it the filter itself, the media, or the Skippy's Own bacteria?

Thanks.

Thanks Rick. What is frustrating is, like I mentioned above, all the contradictory info. Some people say it's August, you're gonna have algae. Which is fine, if that's how it HAS to be. But, would like to see my fish and turtle. :)

moonie 57 = why you self absorbed little ponder. It really is all about you and your pond and that's why we are here. The posters above have given solid advice. It takes time and I bet everyone on this forum has done the pea soup thang. I would not add water from a local pond to my pond. cycling of the water occurs over time and may take weeks or months to occur. patience is the key. The more stuff you throw into your pond at this point just pushes back the day when your pond will clear.
be patient, quit throwing chemicals into your pond. Even making a small "skippy" would be a good thing for your pond at this time. good luck and be patient.

oppalm - *hehe* A little self-absorption is good for the soul. :)

Ok, adding pond water isn't a good idea then, huh? I had read that it could help but will forget that idea and continue practicing patience. So far I haven't put any chemicals in the pond. I do believe that in the last few days I have gone from pea soup green to a darker murkier color but I'm afraid to go out and see if that's really the case.

We have two very large ponds and one small one. The 18 foot by 3 foot pond has 20 goldfish and is loaded with water lilies and water hyacinth. After 3 months from filling, it finally cleared by itself--no pump. We are in SoCal. The small pond 6 feet by 2 feet (no pump) is slowly clearing but we have fewer plants.
The big koi pond with pumps finally cleared as well. We didn't use chemicals. Be patient--I think the secret is the plants.

I use all skippy's stuff. Their filter media, bacteria and enyme. It has worked for me. I had my doubts, when after a few weeks, my new pond was very green. But when I asked them what to do, they said pick a day of the week, add the bacteria each week until the water cleared. It took 3 weeks and was clear all the way to the bottom. They said it might cycle several times. Well it's middle of summer in Fl, full sun, heat index of 110 F and water is still clear (knock on wood). No pea soup and no string algae except in the filters. Fish are happy as long as I feed them at least once a day, so I'm happy also. Glenda

marge727,
I am glad to read about your ponds that have cleared with no pumps. I have just filled a still pond within the past week and so far so good with water lilies, hyacinths, anacharis and parrot feather and I'm hoping for the same result as you have.

Pam

It took a long time for the pea soup to clear from my old 700 gallon pond. More than a year to be totally clear and cycled. The thing that worked best for me was to run the output from one pump(submerged 535 gph) to an external tank (rubbermaid 35 gallon with a spillway built in) that I filled with parrot's feather and assorted plants. The plants floated loose and grew very long roots that (I believe) absorbed some of the nutrients, then the clearer water flowed back into the main pond. Once I put that together, it cleared within a few months. It took a long time and I surely did not feel like being patient, but that is what worked for me.

Another Pam

We have had our pond since April 2006 so we're still learning, but I sympathize with your frustration. Most of what I've learned is that most "professionals" just want to sell you a bottle of chemicals and send you on your way. Other ponders are very helpful but there's so much differing advice, it's mind boggling. Gather as much information as you can and take your time and digest it. Much contradictory advice and the variables with every person's pond go far to confuse you. The best thing we did was have patience and add a lot of plants. We had string algae this spring growing like shrubs and my husband was just about ready to lose it. He cleaned the pond out twice which is the temptation, but that's the worst thing you can do. The bad algae (string) gets a head start on the good bacteria and you're right back - or worse - where you started.

I agree with whoever said plants are key. We now have many more plants than we did last year, most importantly 4 water lilies and 1 lotus that cover most of the surface, plus oxygenators, marginals, and submerged plants. You still get pea soup from time to time, but that's not a bad thing. The fish love it. And we still get string algae but primarily in the creek and near the waterfall. (Our pond is about 3,000 gallons.)

Personally I wouldn't keep it that shaded - you don't need to do that. Water plants are sun lovers and will grow faster if they get sun. However, I'm not sure I'd gather plants from a natural pond either, you never know what you're introducing into your contained environment (an outside aquarium essentially).

Don't be disappointed if you don't get crystal clear water - I'm not sure that's really good anyway. Our pond balances itself with no help from us and it's clear enough so that you can see the fish and the bottom. This is a pond after all. We have a good pump and biofilter, but nothing more than that. Hang in there. Start with more plants and be patient. Next year will be better.

There is one piece of information in the above thread that I would like to take issue with. There seems to be a persistent notion on this forum and this thread that pea soup algae "just happens sometimes". I disagree. If you get the dreaded pea soup it is because you have made one or more bad decisions. There are many bad decisions that can cause this condition, but the most common mistake is the failure to provide enough healthy floating plants to remove phosphates from the water.

In this arena, the first, and most obvious decision is to have hyacinths or other floating plants in the pond. Second, you have to have enough of them. If you put in too few, they won't remove enough nutrients, or the fish will nibble the roots, and compromise the plants. If you put in sufficient numbers of plants the fish won't do much damage to the plants. Third, the plants have to be kept healthy so they grow and absorb nutrients, particularly phosphate.

Sometimes floating plants will consume all of the potash or iron and suffer for the lack of these important nutrients. In this condition growth stops, and phosphate removal comes to a halt. So you have to make sure you don't let your floaters run out of these important nutrients

Well, my pond is definitely beginning to clear somewhat. I can actually see a brick that's sitting on a plant shelf. Now, it seems to be too soon to give credit to the addition of plants since the first ones were only added on Sunday, then more yesterday.

So, I will practice patience and send up a small prayer. :)

Nancy, I was also hesitant on adding plants from the wild but went ahead and did it anyway so I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope I didn't introduce any bad stuff.
One of the reason I keep the pond shaded so much is because of my turtle. He's been 8 years in a controlled environment and I was afraid the water would heat up too much for his comfort. You wouldn't believe just how happy he seems in the pond. He basks in the early morning hours when the sun is on his log. I love seeing his little head pop up between the hyacinths and watching him gobbling duckweed... another reason I was worried about gathering from the wild... another reason to keep my fingers crossed.

I will say that our homeowners association has weekly water testing for the river and it's attributes and we have the best water ever reported these last few years, but it's the "critters" that aren't tested for that worries me.

So, now after reading larryl's post, I'll go do a little research on plant health and nutrition. :)

Lilypons had a guide for what they think will be a balanced pond. It is a mix of fish, plants, tadpoles and snails, and underwater plants. I mostly followed it. Now I have very clear water. Its been just past six months. The one problem I have now is too many snails but that will balance out in time too.

I agree with most of the above. Ponds WILL cycle, and new ponds will (almost like clockwork) go green about 3 weeks after starting 'em up, and then WILL eventually clear. Faster if you have lots of plant cover and a low fish load. Patience is the key. (Skip the chemicals, a waste of money in my limited experience).

larryl, no offence meant, but here in zone 4 it's not always possible to get enough plant coverage and/or floaters early on, or even any actively growing plants to stop the algae before it takes over. It's one of my biggest frustrations each spring, and I keep wanting to add more plants to stop the algae, when what I NEED is patience - let the plants grow! My plants (lots overwintered, but many purchased each spring) don't really grow much 'til mid-June or later. By then I've already had 3 weeks of suspended algae. While I've never had 'pea soup', I do go through some quilt batting each spring before the plants get going. Whole different story in different zones, just my 2 cents :)

Good luck moonie, sounds like clearing has started!

Sheepco, no offense taken. I always wish I could get my plants in earlier too. Hyacinths are certainly tropical plants that need warm weather to thrive. There are some options that work in colder weather and are frost hardy, but maybe not totally freeze proof. I put duckweed and azolla in as early as late February or early March here in Oregon. I have watercress out all winter. I doubt it would overwinter in Minnesota, but I'll bet it could go out in April with duckweed following in late April or early May. I grew up in Michigan so I do remember those northern springs.

The late spring also means the fish are dormant later, which means they don't get fed until later, and don't produce as many nutrients until the water warms up too. I suspect the ability of plants to remove nutrients coincides with the introduction of nutrients by the fish. I like to finish the season in the fall with the nutrient absorbing plants in the pond as late as possible, so I can get a pretty clean start in the spring.

larryl,
What floating plants do you suggest if hyacinth is illegal in your state? It gets too hot here for water lettuce too.

Pam

Duckweed will grow all season if you start with enough that your fish don't eat it all on the first day. It really likes nitrogen, though, and it will just disappear if the nitrate level drops to zero. Watercress grows all season here in Oregon, but it might burn out in Texas, if it isn't shaded. Watercress needs to be installed so that its roots are in in water, not soil, so it can extract nutrients from the water. Flowing water works best, but it isn't essential.

The illegality of hyacinth is not as simple as it seems. In some of the states where hyacinths are illegal, people have reported them being openly available for purchase at pond stores, so it is obvious that enforcement is not a priority everywhere. In this case it is up to the judgment of the pond owner. If a pond is biologically isolated from any nearby water features it might cause no harm to put a few hyacinths into the pond. In the states where hyacinths are illegal they have been loose in the environment for a long time. Florida has had feral hyacinths for over a century. It is hard to imagine how some hyacinths in a pond in the middle of suburban Miami, or Dallas, is going to change anything.

Maybe some Florida and Texas ponders can chime in with opinions here. Do you use hyacinths? What do you think?

Well, it is illegal to even posses water hyacinth here, and as a master gardener, I have more responsibility to play by the rules and be a steward of the environment, so I won't keep it. I do anchor all my bog and marginal plants with pea gravel, no soil. I did find it difficult to rid my pond of unicellular algae, especially after unwisely using a combo of kitty litter and osmocote. A pot tipped and spilled and within 2 weeks I had the loveliest shade of emerald water! The eventual answer was a veggie filter (mostly parrots feather). Maybe we are saying the same thing, it just seemed as if you were saying that there was a simple formula to avoid or minimize the pea soup.

Pam

Pam, I think we are saying the same thing. Your pot of osmocoat provided a big phosphate boost, and you got algae. The eventual answer was the parrots feather, which removed the phosphate. The phosphate can come from many sources, but the cure is pretty much the same, plants. The implementation of the plant cure can involve a lot of issues, as we have seen in the above posts, so I won't call it a simple formula.

The not-so-simple-formula involves finding the right combination of plants for your pond and then keeping them healthy so that they can remove the phosphate, which sometimes isn't that simple either.

Moonie, after all this discussion about plants - do me a favor, and tomorrow go check the temperature of your pump? If it's wrapped too closely in quilt batting it could overheat and burn out. Which can be avoided by sticking the pump in a laundry basket or something like that, and wrapping the quilt batting around the outside of the basket.

:) Mary

larryl, thanks for your response. I haven't tried duckweed, but my first year I had azolla, which I loved but costs $8.99 for a 3" pot of mud with azolla on top here. I can stand that, but then the WH are also $8.99 EACH and they just sit there 'til it warms up alot - mid June. Most pond plants aren't available 'til the end of May here in the sticks. I have gotten some great trades here on GW, but again, a bit later in the season. The water cress I got this year is great, nice to know it will tolerate cooler temps. They don't sell it locally (even in the grocery stores), but if I plan ahead I can get it early on. I'm going to try the duckweed and watercress next spring...anything to get a jump on the algae :)

It's August now, and my plants are finally to the point I'm pruning and pulling so they don't take over! Wish the ponding season was longer here, by mid to late September I'll be watching my tender stuff get nipped by frost...

Sorry, didn't mean to whine :)

Sheepco..where in MN are you located. I'm in west central WI. I too had problems finding much for water plants in the spring when I put in my first pond. I have found ebay to be a good place to get floating plants. 50 water lettuce for less then $25 including shipping and 25 WH for $18 including shipping. All plants are thriving and healthy.
That's how I intend to get mine again for next year.

maryo - Thanks! I did check the pump and felt it was warmer than usual and used your tip to wrap it in a basket. Thanks for saving my pump!

Now one more question.... how hot is "too hot for water lettuce"? With 3 days over 100 degrees already, I'm thinking it's too hot for water lettuce here, too. Or is it??? You know the pond water's got to be heating up.

Sheepco - Those short summers suck! Go ahead and whine. :)

hi Moonie,
We get some heat waves that seem to last for a month (but are generally 2-3 weeks) where our temp meets or exceeds 100 degrees farenheit. Water lettuce just burns to a crisp ;-) We are having a mild summer this year, this week we have been in the high nineties, but this is the hottest so far. They may do better in dappled shade.

Pam

Try tucking pieces of "NuFoam" (found in the sewing dept. at Walmart, Joann's etc.) at the top of your waterfall so that water coming from the top of the falls is filtered. I did that with my pea soup last year when my little pond was new and it cleared in a matter of hours. I've used the foam twice since to clear murky water from stirred up muck.

Submerged plants like anacharis and hornwort also use tons of nutrients and prevent algae. They are actively growing for a much longer season than hyacinths and lettuce too.

My water lettuce -does- seem to be yellowing quite fast. Maybe it's the temperature :(

I'm going to check the pet stores for anacharis this weekend but it would probably be quite high there, but can't find it any place else around here. Anyone else buy it from a petstore? I hate ordering online but will if I have to.... next year.

I may also try that Nufoam trick and see how that goes. I'm not so lucky for things to work out like that though.

Although I have had some clearing, the last couple of days I haven't seen much difference. But, it has been very hot so maybe there's another reason.

Yeah, hornwort and anacharis do grow like crazy here too and certainly help keep the pond clearer. Gotta keep pruning it and rinsing off the goldfish eggs though, they LOVE to spawn in/on them!

Wi-ponder, I'm way over - 50 miles from the SD border. I have bought floaters and marginals on ebay with success, but get much better plants trading here.

S

I buy very few pond plants. Almost all are traded with other ponders. It is too hot to mail Anacharis this time of year though. I've tried. It turns to mush. It is often sold as Goldfish Greens at Petco or Petsmart, cheap.

I'm so happy to have found this forum. We bought a house in June that has an established pond but the owners turned off the pump the moment the "SOLD" sign was posted in the yard. A month later we moved in and you can imagine what my pond looked like. :( We drained it and started over and from everything ya'll are saying, I'm ok. I am so happy to have a pond but this is my first and I'm still learning dumb things like, quit losing fish that get sucked in my pump. Being this novice, you can imagine how grateful I am for all this info you guys are posting!!!