Since I know it took quite some time to succeed with Echinacea paradoxa x purpurea crosses to make the yellow-orange-red range of new hybrids, I would assume that seed viability is a big issue. If I knew how to karyotype plants, I'd probably do that to my Echinaceas and see if that was the problem. Oops now I'm getting scientific. What I mean is count chromosomes, and sort them by size. If the chromosome count varies (think diploid, triploid, tetraploid, popular terms used in daylily breeding), then the offspring, WHEN produced, are probably sterile. Of course, you can get around that by treating stuff with Colchicine, but I don't know how to do THAT, either, even though I have enough Colchicums (the source plant) to cure the world of gout... I'll stop now before I end up down another genetic rabbit hole--anyways, I'd guess there's low viability in the seeds produced by the fancy new hybrids. Heck--the Echinacea seeds I bought from Johnny's indicated germination rates as low as 50% even under optimal conditions (I don't NEED 16 bazillion Echinacea seedlings, so I didn't care if germination rates were on the low side). As soon as my fancy hybrids get large enough to make seed saving an option, I'll experiment. Lisa

dkotchey - The Montauk daisy is fully hardy here, so should be fine for you. I have found myself in trouble with several of the plants mentioned by others above due to rampant reseeding. Up until recently I was a classroom teacher, and due to work demands in late August onward along with earlier sunset, rarely was able to deadhead. I would never put in a typical perennial garden Eupatorium, tall phlox, or any of the native asters or goldenrods because as lovely as they are, removing all the volunteers took way too much of my gardening time. However, I do have a field area along the back foundation of my house that gets full sun, and am considering planting these plants there where they can duke it out among themselves while the few times per year the field gets mowed will keep the spreading in check. I guess it's a matter of right plant, right place. A couple of other fall blooming plants (not all perennials since my gardens are mixed) that I love include: - a reblooming candytuft, Iberis sempervirens, called 'Autumn Beauty' - most of these bloom spring only, but this selection blooms spring and fall - Hamamelis virginiana, the common witchhazel, which if you choose the right plant (one that actually drops all its leaves) has lovely clear yellow flowers with thread-like petals as well as yellow autumn leaves and a winter branch structure that I love. It does get large, and is a bit coarse in leaf, so isn't a front and center plant for all seasons, but would make a nice backdrop to a partly to fully shaded perennial bed if you have the room -Cimicifuga AKA Actea which although has been mentioned is worth mentioning again. Decorative foliage all season, especially the maroon ones, with pink to white bottle brush flowers in late summer to fall and nice seedheads which I leave up for winter decoration and to feed the birds - Lady Elsie May rose, which starts blooming in late June and doesn't stop until hard frost and is small and healthy enough to fit well into my perennial bed - Hydrangeas 'Penny Mac' and 'Endless Summer' which work like perennials in my garden - die back to the ground each winter and bloom on new wood each summer - Agastache 'Apache Sunset' which has silvery foliage and pinky-orange flowers that start in late August or early September and bloom until frost. - Autumn blooming crocus and colchicum, which always get attention from garden visitors since blooming bulbs in autumn are unexpected Thanks to all of you who have contributed ideas.

Bizarre? Some of my friends thought some of my stuff was bazarre too. Some houseplants, most winter sowed, some will be direct sowed. I think this is a pretty complete list now. I've got way to many already. Abutilon vitifolium 3 Acacia cultriformis Acinos alpinus Aconitum alboviolaceum 39 Aconitum hemsleyanum 29 Adlumina fungulosa Agapanthus cv fr U of British Columbia Agastache rupestris 90 Agastache schrophularifolia Albuca humilis 94 Albuca shawii 95 syn. A. tricophylla Alcea ficifolia 99 Allium tricoccum Alyssum wulfenianum 256 Anaphalis alpicola 206 Anaphalis triplinervis 268 Anisodontea julii Aquilegia desertorum 345 Aquilegia flabellata var. pumila 'Kurilensis Rosea' 361 Aquilegia formosa Aquilegia viridiflora 382 Aralia continentalis 418 Aralia wilsonii 420 Arisaema consanguineum 440 Aristolochia fimbriata 467 Aristolochia tomentosa Athamanta turbith 580 Atropa komarovii 'Turkmenistan' Bergeranthus jamesii 607 Betula glandulifera Calycanthus floridulus ex 'Athens' 683 Campanula americana Cassia alata Clematis ochroleuca Corydalis Blackberry Wine Corydalis ex ex Dufa Temple Cosmidium burridgeanum Dasistoma macrophylla Desmanthus illinoiensis Digitalis grandiflora Dracocephalum palmatum Echinocerius reichenbachii ssp. caespitosis 1331 Eragrostis airioides Festuca valesiaca Fibigea clypeata Fragaria vesca alba 1499 Fritillaria camschatensis ex Kenai, AK Fritillaria camschatensis exCordova,AK Fritillaria lanceolata Gentiana quinquefolia Glaucidium palmatum 2013 Hesperis kotschyi 1855 Hudsonia tomentosa Impatiens glandulifera Ipomea Ipomea - Flake Ipomea 'Blue Blizzard' Ipomea 'Heino Rumi' Iris chrysographes 1938 Iris reichenbachii 2307 Iris tectorum 1986 Iris typhifolia 1998 Jeffersonia dubia 2008 Lavatera cachemiriana 2053 Leuzea conifera var. macrocephala2095 Lilium concolor var. coridion 2138 Lilium concolor var. strictum Lilium lophophorum Lilium mackliniae 2150 Lilium sargentiae Lilium sp. ex China Limonium gmellini ssp. hungaricus Manfreda virgininiana ex Adams Co. OH Melittis melissophyllum 2302 Mentzelia decapetala Mertensia simplicissima 2307 Mirabilis longiflora 2302 Nasella tenuissima Onosma alboroseum Orlaya grandiflora Peltoboykinia tellimoides 2565 Peltoboykinia watanabei Peltoboykinia watanabei 2566 Penstemon 'Chocolate Drop' Penstemon hallii Penstemon paysoniorum Penstemon smallii Penstemon strictus Penstemon virens 2688 Physochlaina orientalis 2726 Phyteuma orbiculare Phyteuma scheuchzeri 4332 Platycodon 'Komachi' 2756 Podophyllum hexandrum Poncirus trifoliata Pulsatilla ajanensis Pulsatilla albana 2894 Pulsatilla flavescens Rhodothamnus chamaecistus 4396 Ruellia ex 'Midnight' Sarracenia purpurea Scilla monophyllos 3194 Semiaquilegia ecalcarata Serratula seoanei Seseli gummiferum 3249 Soldanella alpina 4460 Swertia bimaculata 4478 Sylibum marianum Talinum paniculatum 'Aurea' Telekia speciosa (Bupthalmon) Tellima grandiflora Tsuga canadensis ex Mille Lacs Co.MN Viburnum dentatum ex St.Louis Co.MN xPardancanda norrisii xPardancanda norrisii And DRAT! my Pulsatilla flavescens sprouted in the initial 2 week warm cycle. Rick

I will set aside a good sized Filipendula and red current seedling for you, Adam and keep a ground cherry seedling for you, sunita_fleuriste. The seedling seem to be doing well now. The Cookstown Wingding is that day too. For those of you coming from afar, you should make a whole day of it and go there, as well. The entire town is a garage sale! As much as I would love to have it here, I have looked around and given it some thought and I have no parking. People can park on the road but it's a country road without a lot of space and I have a driveway that is about 180 ft long. I don't think it would work out well. I say we go with the school, lots of parking there, and it will be dry. If it rains there will be space under the front overhang at the school. What school, where? and what time, please? Later afternoon would be good for me as I want to go to the Cookstown Wingding in the morning. Can we do after lunch, around 1 or 2, or later, if that's ok with everyone? I have added so much to my list and am still adding daily. Here is what I have so far and only a few of each: Perennial Sweet pea (if they are up by then) Filipendula euonymous - verigated sprawling ground cover ground cherry seedlings red currant seedlings pink obedient plant Impatiens gladulifera seedlings cinnamon ferns - if not under water mayapple trout lily dosaki cucumber seedlings goji bush seedlings hardy hibiscus - 1 yr old mixed feverfew forget me nots ninebark shrub white honeysuckle shrubs unknown and probably a bunch of other stuff by then too. I don't think I'll post another list, just bring a few of everything I come up with. This is fun! A friend gave me a massive peony yesterday!