If the original new rose was only propagated by budding and the root stock was all virused, all roses of that variety, if rooted from cuttings or budded will be virused.
It's a crap shoot unless the rose was heat treated to kill the virus.
Enjoy your roses and quit worrying about it.
Virus free roses budded on multiflora seedlings will not be virused. It's my understanding the virus does not transfer to the seeds.

I have many roses from David Austin in TX growing in my garden 7-8+ years now. Only one of them is virused, Sharifa Asma, which I heard a while ago is hard to find NOT virused. I am not even sure if I got Sharifa from DA all those years ago. I know others have fared differently, but my virused Sharifa only presents with some variegated leaves mostly in the spring. Has not seemed to have health or vigor affected.

Vintage Gardens does OWN ROOT roses. "Custom Root" means that they have a mother plant of the rose in stock, it is not in their regular production cycle (they don't have a lot of it available for sale), but they will propagate one specifically for you. That's why "Custom Root" costs more.

While they are under patent, Austin and other hybridizers license their roses for reproduction and sale to other vendors, that's how they can sell them legally.

Zyperiris,

I'm going to attempt to clarify some of the confusing information that's been stressing you:

1. Buying roses grafted onto Dr Huey rootstock does NOT mean that those roses are automatically virused. The vast majority of Dr Huey-grafted roses supplied today by reputable vendors (that would include J&P) will be virus-free. That is especially true for roses that were introduced during the last 10 years or so.

2. Selecting only own-root roses for your garden in no way guarantees that you will avoid virused plants. Cuttings taken from roses grafted onto virused rootstock will be virused even if they're then grown on as own-root plants. It's an unfortunate fact that some plants offered by own-root nurseries were propagated via the unwitting taking of cuttings from diseased plants. Reliable own-root vendors are very vigilant about the matter, and are diligent in their attempts to acquire only disease-free material. The only virused plants (that I'm aware of) presently in my garden were purchased as own-roots.

3. When Vintage indicates that a rose is available only as a custom root, it means that that specific variety, altho part of their collection, is one that they do not commonly (or currently) have in production. If you're willing to wait quite a while, and are willing to pay the extra fee (as Diane said above), Vintage will custom-root the variety for you. The plant you receive will be an own-root band.

If you garden with roses long enough, and as your collection expands, chances are fairly high that, sooner or later, you'll find that you've added a virused plant (or several). And it's quite possible to have virused roses that perform very well -- it depends on several factors.

So relax, Zyper. Don't get hyper about all of this stuff. Take to heart the wise counsel that Karl offered above: *Enjoy your roses AND QUIT WORRYING ABOUT IT*. Afterall, gardening is supposed to be pleasureable -- and calming.

One of the own-root nurseries I buy from says it makes a good faith effort to sell virus-free plants, so I take it to mean there is no guarantee but they "try". Vintage, however, uses the letters VID next to some of their offerings, which does mean it is guaranteed to be virus-free, as I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Having said all of that, and despite diliking the look of variegated yellow leaves on my roses, I do have a virused America that is a beautiful blooming machine, so it seems to not make much of a difference.

Okay so I think I am understanding this. I did mention last summer I posed in here (I did not quite understand the implication) that a family owned rose retailer here in Gig Harbor told me that in 2008 the roses they purchased from David Austin were sub par and virused. I am trying to be chemical free for the most part in my garden so I would prefer not to get a sick plant to start with.

The rootstock they use in the east..Multiflora is okay here in the west? If so then why doesn't everyone use it? Or is it that Dr Huey is just stronger here?

Okay so..I think this is making sense and I now know why mail order on own root is the way to go. True, if you see a rose at a store..blooming and grafted it is instant gratification to take it home and plant it. The majority of Americans are like this. I used to be this consumer. But now that I am in a great home and have more time in my life my rose obsession has grown and now I consider each rose I buy which is why I am always asking opinions in here. SO now I am to understand that maybe, or most likely it is better to buy mail order for the supply they offer and that they are in most cases verifying virus free roses. The roses you see at most nurseries are mostly the ROSES of the Moment..or the most popular ones of the time. But that is a selling to the masses deal. Many roses which are equally good but are not subject to a mass marketing plan are neglected but are available through mail order and you can get them own rooted. So am I getting it now? Am I close?

One of the things that I've done since I first started to grow roses a few years ago is decide how important certain factors are to me. Color, number of petals, scent, lasting in a vase, how big they start at, health, rootstock, which nursery, etc... are all factors in which rose I buy and from where. But they aren't all as important. I love purple, and if a lovely dark purple rose is only available from one place, then I'm going to get it from that one place. If I'm looking for scent, then I've learned that I have to smell it in person, so I can end up buying from a local place that has roses for me to smell. If I want a rose that lasts well in a vase, then I buy those pretty Freelander roses from Palatine. This year I actually decided that I only wanted giant Palatine bareroots so I didn't even look at other nurseries and narrowed my selection to just what Palatine carried.

So, if virus status is important to you, find a nursery with a virus policy. Ask if that particular plant is VID. That is your only way to be sure. But you can guess that most newer roses from decent nurseries are not virused. Most antique roses from own root places are not virused. Some roses are virused no matter where you get them and clean versions are not available. I ended up deciding that there are only a few roses that I worry about the virus status - older roses that are widely available where most are probably virused except for the ones that have been heat treated and virus indexed. Double Delight and Peace are roses where I feel that having the VID status are worthwhile. Although I should admit that my Peace was a cheap rose from Jungs and I'm keeping it because it has a scent and I don't care as much about virus if getting a new one means losing the fragrance.

For the David Austins - he licensed several nurseries to carry and propagate his roses. So you can find David Austin roses ownroot, on Multiflora, and on Huey, and from several different suppliers, not just from his official nursery. I've never ordered from him but I have several of his roses.

As for antiques and disease resistance - it depends on the class of rose and that particular rose just like it does with the modern roses. Rugosas for instance are extremely disease resistant and they better be because they don't like to be sprayed. Some gallicas are disease resistant, but Cardinal de Richelieu is not (at least, not for me).

Now for Jackson and Perkins - yes, they try to sell you the latest and greatest. That's how they make money. But that doesn't mean that their roses are bad. Veteran's Honor is a JP rose and I love it. Moondance is a JP rose is great for me. In fact, because JP is fairly high turnover on their roses, I like to get the good ones before they disappear to make room for new ones. So I always check out their intros and watch for opinions on what is good so I don't miss out.

Anyway, I hope that helps. You might find it easiest to do as I did this year and limit yourself to one good vendor to make it easier to make choices on what to try. Then look at what did well and buy more like that. Don't fill up your whole garden in one go - leave room for next year when you'll know more about what is important to you.

Please understand that there is NO chemical treatment for a rose infected with rose mosaic virus. If the rose has it, it has it, and the only way to get rid of it would be with a highly-specialized heat treatment (not in your average gardener's toolbox). You don't use any pesticides to rid a rose of RMV (or the other viral diseases). You would rather not get a rose that is infected, if possible. But, you may already have an infected rose, it just isn't showing symptoms. Many of us do have RMV-infected roses, and many of us ignore them unless (and until) they start to show declining health. Which a lot of them never do.

Here is a link that might be useful: RMV article at Roses-Roses Site

Roses have an immune system that fights against PNRSV, (which many consider to the most common of the rose viruses that collectively are called RMV). Unfortunately for northern rose growers the immune mechanism is a temperature dependent one. i.e. in warm temperatures the virus is found mainly in the roots. Thus, virus related studies of above ground spread, seed transmission, and even health of the plant, amount of flowering, disease resistance, etc. that are conducted in places like Florida and Southern California may not be applicable to roses grown in cool climates. In addition there are different strains of PNRSV that are more or less virulent so that even someone's experience with a virused rose in your zone may not be applicable to a virused rose that you may receive.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~kuska/info_about_virus.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

zyperis, I believe you received only a partial answer to your question as to why it's possible to get Austin roses elsewhere. True, Austin does allow certain nurseries to market his product, but you must also realize that new roses are patented and after that patent expires (I believe that's after 17 years), anyone can grow and sell his roses. I have Wife of Bath, which is a very early rose, and I bought this own-root at Vintage. Often the older Austin roses, although they may be desirable, are only offered by specialist nurseries since the mainstream nurseries concentrate on the newest (and therefore most popular in the average consumer's estimation) Austin roses, and the older ones would be forgotten if it weren't for small specialist nurseries that carry the ones that have stood the test of time and are worth growing. On their own roots they will often stay smaller and actually have a nicer shape which I find very desirable.

Ingrid

I don't think anyone has yet reacted to the assumption stated in your initial post on this thread ". . . that old garden roses would not be disease resistant." You'll find that it's always a BIG mistake to generalize or make blanket statements about roses. OGRs can be among the MOST disease resistant of roses, and chances are there are some that would be ideally suited to your environment & garden conditions -- ie, robust and virtually disease-free. Those very same varieties could well be wimpy disease magnets in my garden. We can enhance soil, provide optimal amounts of water, design for ideal light, fertilize and pamper, but it's the elements over which we have no control that really determine how well a given rose will perform. Keep in mind, too, that the most disease-prone roses of all are some of the modern hybrids.

Purchasing virus indexed (VID) stock GREATLY enhances the likelihood that you will get disease-free roses. It is not, however, an absolute guarantee. I'm not the only one to have purchased a VID selection of a certain hard-to-find rose, only to see those unmistakable signs of virus appear as the rose matured. The article Diane linked above encourages customers to quiz vendors about the VID status of their stock. That's certainly a fine thing to do. Just be aware, though, that the answers and/or evasions you're likely to elicit, even from some highly reputable vendors, may serve only to increase your frustration. Most small rose businesses do their best to acquire healthy stock, but few (if any) of them have the resources to have those highly technical & fairly costly lab tests performed on each variety they sell.

Given your interest and level of determination, I encourage you to contact a chapter of the American Rose Society in your area. Most chapters have consulting rosarians whose role is to provide guidance to members of the public as a free service. Conferring with someone having knowledge of rose culture in your specific area could save you lots of frustration, not to mention lots of money that might otherwise be spent on roses that are known not to perform well where you garden. Good luck -- and don't forget to follow Karl's directive!

There's no difference regarding virus between Dr. Huey and multiflora except in propagation technique. The Canadian multiflora grafters grow their multiflora from seed, which makes it easier to control virus. Thus your odds are much better if you buy from Palatine or Pickering in Canada. Western producers grow their Dr. Huey stock from cuttings. There used to be a lot of off-brand roses grafted on multiflora from cuttings in the US (esp. Texas), and they were no better than Dr. Huey for virus.

The ownroot producers Vintage and Heirloom make a particular effort not to propagate from virused stock. Roses Unlimited is getting better. I buy most of my roses from them, even though I have gotten a couple of virused plants.

The plants most likely to be virused are off-brand grafted roses. Some substantial fraction of the name-brand Western roses will be virused, but that doesn't mean you have to avoid them altogether.

If one is interested in old garden roses, then one should be aware that another rose virus (rose leaf curl) may be a problem.

"In the United States, the infectious agent of rose leaf curl occurs in many antique" roses in community rose gardens. The disease is widely distributed in the United States, but when it is seen in hybrid tea roses in public gardens, "antique" roses are usually nearby."

http://web.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/pdf_pubs/632.pdf

Is it still considered a problem? The following is from a March 2009 University of California paper:

"Infected rose plants. Slow natural spread."

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r280112611.html

Henry, Thank you very much. I was not aware of the official term "rose leaf curl" virus, but experienced it on two OGRs in my garden in the past. I was sure it was some type of virus and got rid of these plants after observing these simptoms for 3 years. I was very upset, because I new these varieties and they should be very vigorous and don't have deformed leaves. I grew them before in my previous garden. Both came from the same nursery. I substituted virus plants with the same roses, but from different source. New roses are happy and healthy.
Olga

OK, to those of you who now are checking out 'rose leaf curl' (RLC): While you're at it, you might as well check out "rose spring dwarf" (RSD) and "rose x" (RX). Those horrors, in addition to "rose rosette disease" (RRD) and "rose mosaic virus" (RMV), not to mention common, ordinary, run of the mill pestilence like BS, PM, rust, crown gall, anthracnose, canker et al., -- plus JBs and the countless other critters that target roses -- all combine to give one pause. Mother Nature seems to be coming up with new things all the time that seem to be designed with a goal of ultimately wiping our favorite flower off the face of the earth. Do you suppose she's angered because we've made of her lovely, simple roses all these hybrid things she never intended (whether they be 'antique' or modern)?

Have a nice day . . .

"rose spring dwarf" is of concern lately probably (at least partially) because it has been reported in the recent scientific literature to be spread by aphids.

http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/PDIS-92-4-0508

(This virus has been discussed recently in 2 "non public" rose areas.)

It is a Luteovirus. I could not find any references to being able to remove a Luteovirus by heat treatment but apparently tissue culture methods may work.

Title: Elimination of Sugarcane yellow leaf virus from infected sugarcane plants by meristem tip culture visualized by tissue blot immunoassay

Authors: M. M. M. Fitch a *?, A. T. Lehrer b , E. Komor b and P. H. Moore a

Authors affiliation: a USDA/ARS, 99-193 Aiea Heights Dr, Aiea, HI 96701,
USA; and b Pflanzenphysiologie, Universität Bayreuth, D-95440 Bayreuth,
Germany

ABSTRACT: "Sugarcane yellow leaf virus (SCYLV), a member of the Luteoviridae, is implicated in the sugarcane disease known as yellow leaf syndrome (YLS), which is characterized by yellowing of the leaf midrib followed by leaf necrosis and possible growth suppression. YLS is distributed worldwide and susceptible cultivars are commonly infected with SCYLV. However, not all cultivars infected with SCYLV show symptoms of YLS and some cultivars that show symptoms do so sporadically. Since it is difficult to obtain virus-free plants of susceptible cultivars, it has not been possible to study the factors involved in SCYLV infection nor the effects of infection on plant growth and yield. A tissue blot immunoassay was used to visualize in vivo presence of the virus so that virus-infected and virus-free plants could be distinguished. Meristem tip cultures were used to produce virus-free plantings of six SCYLV-susceptible sugarcane cultivars. Nearly all of the regenerated sugarcane lines remained virus-free over a period of up to 4 years, whether grown in isolated fields or in the glasshouse. Experimental re-infection of the virus-free plants by viruliferous aphids demonstrated that meristem tip culture did not affect susceptibility of sugarcane to SCYLV. Improved diagnosis and production of virus-free plants of SCYLV-susceptible cultivars will facilitate research to quantify the effect of the virus on yield and to analyse the processes involved in disease development."

Http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118976627/abstract?

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all this. Lance a well known rose guy..Paparoseman..Has invited me over and I hope to pick his brain a bit and further my education.

I emailed Vintage gardens..I want a Octavia Hill rose and it takes a year to get your rose!

Worth the wait for a custom rose that you will love for years!
I have seen some really weak plants that were sick from RMV. Mostly they were 7+years old. I want my plants to last and get better with age so I try to replace any rose I see showing RMV. If I can, I like to grow the own root plants. Many times, I think they have more canes and flowers than the ones I bought as grafted plants. The shape of the bush is different sometimes. I haven't seen any virus yet from any of my roses from companies that are trying to sell virus free plants.

I think in the PNW multiflora rootstock does very well, so you can buy from Pickering and Palatine.

I wanted to recommend you to check out Lynette, The Oldrosarian's website. She has a PNW garden with 6-800 roses to die for, with gorgeous photos and useful comments about every rose she grew. Alas, I cannot locate the website any more. Anyway, she gardens in British Columbia, and as far as I remember, she bought roses only grafted on multiflora and laxa. Dr. Huey is the rootstock for the alkaline soils in southern California and Arizona but you probably do not have alkaline soil in the rainy Seattle.

As others already explained it, David Austin sells the right to certain nurseries to grow his roses. Some sell his roses own root, like Chamblee's, Heirloom, Vintage, RU, and some sells them grafted - for you the best choice is Pickering who has most of the Austins and their multiflora rootstock is grown from seeds so it is likely virus free. (So far I never got a virused rose from them - Austin or else).

Own root, as others already explained you, does not mean that the rose will be virus free. Roses Unlimited announced a few years ago that they will clean up they virused inventory but that could not be done in such a short period of time considering the large variety they carry.

There is a nursery on the west coast that guarantees (?) virus-free roses, Roses of Yesterday and Today if you want grafted plants and don't want to order from Canada, though Pickering is less expensive. And, Roses Y&T has very few plants grafted on multiflora but states that they sell only virus free plants.

If you are willing to try bands, you have more choices: Northland Rosarium (WA), Heirloom (OR), Vintage (CA). I tried both Northland and Vintage and I was very happy with both though I was very reluctant to try bands.

For bigger own roots you can check out Rouge Valley roses (OR)- they do not state that all their roses are virus free but accept the responsibility that no matter how many years later virus shows up they will reimburse you - so far this is the best guarantee I've read. Their selection is fantastic (unfortunately their shipping cost to the east coast is forbidding but for you it should be pretty good, I assume).

Chamblee's (TX) has excellent 1 and 2 gallon own root roses, including some Austins, probably at the best price you can find. Their so-called Earthkind roses are the disease resistant ones. (Strangely enough they don't list Crepuscule among those while Crepuscule is one of my most disease resistant roses.)