Sam your butterfly bush is just lovely. How I would love to have some of this plant! I didn't know there was an aquatic variety. Does it have another name? I'll look for it.
Lil

I was not aware of an aquatic butterfly bush. Yours is lovely.

That plant is purple loosestrife (lythrum salicaria). It's a true swamp plant, and it has been banned in some states because it spreads like the sniffles in a day-care center. I had some planted around a small pond several years ago, but I had to move it because it was overpowering the pond. The stuff is indestructable. Tear it up, and it will keep coming back -- all over your yard. Still, it's a great shrub.

I agree that it's gorgeous, but I too wish I had never let it into my yard. Not as noxious as poison ivy, but just as tenacious.

Sharon

The government catches you with that and it'll be your butt..or at least a fine.

As a professional landscaper, I would like to comment that there are a couple cultivars that are NOT invasive, and have sterile seeds. ('Morden's Pink' & Mr. Robert's I have grown for a decade) Please, do not comment if you have never grown one of these cultivars. Please, do not comment if you have not had several clumps of them in your gardens for over 10 years without ONE seedling, one runner, or any kind of invasiveness due to 'reverting back to the wild state' or cross pollination.
I have seen so many people get hysterical over EVERY type of Purple Loosestrife.
I have read hundreds of websites with erroneous information.
Yes, many are the invasive types (Lythrum virgatum, & L. salicaria), but NOT ALL. At work we have about 36 clumps of PL around the waterfalls and down the berms into the big pond. Been there for almost 8 years now. Not ONE seedling around the 120 by 90 foot pond. Not ONE seedling anywhere in the wetlands around the office and nearby winery.

According to the link provided below (from WI), which mentions 'Morden's Pink' and 'Mr Robert' cultivars specifically, they are included in the illegal list. Your experince with them may mean you should petition for them to be legal, but it doesn't mean they aren't banned.

It doesn't mean that they are invasive either.

It just means that some inexperienced, person in a fit if irrational hysteria, threw every Lythrum on the list.

Like I said, I have reason hundreds of erroneous websites.

I don't believe everything I read anyway.

I go by personal experience, and years, if not decades of testing plants out myself. I will consider and listen to anyone else like me who has done the research and has the years of hands on experience themselves.

The variety that I have is Morden's Pink which I purchased from a major water gardening company over 20 years ago when it was still legal to sell purple loosestrife.

My experience has beem similar to Joyce's since it has never been invasive or produced seeds. To start new plants, I take cuttings and root them.

Purple Loosestrife is on the prohibited lists in a lot of states in the U.S. What that means is that the nurseries can't sell the plant any more. However, it is not illegal for individuals to grow the plant in their yards.

This plant looks remarkably like the regular butterfly bush. I have one of the regular ones and the flowers are almost the same. The leaves are also similar.

So when people come to our home and see this large plant full of beautiful purple flowers and ask what it is I always tell them "Aquatic Butterfly Bush," of course. LOL

It is growing in a 100 gallon prefab pond by itself. It has just started blooming and will soon be covered solid with blooms and will continue until frost. I add a couple of inches of water to it at a time and then add more when the surface is only wet.

This is probably the most beautiful of all pond plants so it is a shame that even the sterile varieties have been prohibited from being sold.

Yes, it is a shame Sam.

Especially when CATTAILS are allowed in ponds, and are sold by nurseries.
OMG....LOL!

Talking about invasive!

Joyce, I was surprised to find out that cattails are not even native to most of the U.S.

"Before 1880, the narrow-leaved cattail was only found in a few coastal wetlands along the north Atlantic seaboard, Louisiana, and California. In the late 19th century, cattails spread to the Great Lakes region by way of waterways, railroads, road ditches, and other areas where wetlands were disturbed or created."

So when people complain about purple loosestrife taking over the cattail wetlands, what they don't realise is that it is one non-native replacing another non-native.

Here is a link that might be useful: History of Cattails

Where can you buy Morden's Pink online?
Lil

Lil, you can't buy it online since it is on the prohibited list for nurseries.

However, you might find someone locally that would be willing to give you a cutting.

Here is a good closeup of the Aquatic Butterfly Bush growing in one of my ponds. It is a real shame that more people can't grow Morden's Pink plant since it is so beautiful. However, the weedy variety has given it a bad name.

Here is a link that might be useful: ABB In Pond

Hey Catfish,
What are the edgings around your larger ponds? I really like the transition to the garden. It is such a clean line! They appear preform? But the size makes me think otherwise.
I am just getting to the point where I can drop in my liner, so I would love to know how you accomplished the edges.

Thanks,
TT

TT, The pond is made from a 10ft wide galvanized stock tank. Then I grow lawn right up to the edge of the rim.

Here is a link that might be useful: All of pond

Lil, I was wrong. You can buy Morden's Pink Purple Loosestrife.

There is a nursery in Ohio that sells Morden's Pink and Dropmore Purple. Unfortuanately they do not ship but require you to come to their nursery.

This is really a surprise to me since I thought that all the nurseries had stopped selling purple loosestrife? Maybe there are other nurseries that sell it too?

Here is a link that might be useful: A nursery that sells Purple Loosestrife

Here is a nursery in Texas that sells MORDEN'S PINK'
Lythrum salicaria.

This is really a surprise to me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Another nursery

North Haven also sells LOOSESTRIFE, 'ROBERT'
Lythrum salicaria which Joyce mention in a posting above.

Here is a link that might be useful: Robert

I did some more searching and The University of Georgia Cooperative Extension Service recommends Morton Pink as a good perennial to plant. So if you want to buy some purple loosestrife, check your local nurseries or maybe you can find it online.

Obviously it isn't banned in a lot of states. I found another nursery in Kentucky that sells it. It is grown in flower gardens in wetter areas of the Country, however, it is too dry here in Colorado to grow it in your flower garden.

Here is a link that might be useful: Extension Service

Now here is the Kentucky Horticulture Dept. recommends it too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kentucky Horticulture Dept

Mississippi Extension Service also recommends it .

It seems like the states where it is not a problem recommend it and those where it is a problem do not.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mississippi

Thanks Sam, I also found a nursery in GA (Goodness Grows) that sells Morden's Pink and they do mail order too. They said they could ship in the Fall. :-)
Lil

Lil, could you post a link so if anyone else wants to get Morden's Pink they can order it?

To my knowledge, you can get Purple Loosestrife in New York. I haven't bought it in a few years, but I keep seeing it turn up in people's landscapes. I know it's not ALL coming from my yard. (Sorry, Joyce, I couldn't resist.)

The web address for Goodness Grows is
www.goodnessgrows.com
They are not set up for onliine ordering yet, but you can call them and request a catalog.
Lil

Lil, I posted your link so it would easier for everyone to go to.

Here is a link that might be useful: Goodness Grows

jellobiafra, it ain't coming form my yard either. ;)

Sam, I am glad you found some 'rational' retailers!

Has anyone had success with any of the Loosestrife varieties attracting butterflies? I've only observed Cabbage Whites (not native, and a pest to farmers) using them. My best pond/bog plant for drawing in butterflies has been Cephalanthus occidentalus, the native Button bush. I've also heard that Gymnocoronis spilanthoides (Water Snowball) is very effective, but it can be invasive in frost free areas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cephalanthus occidentalis

Buttonbush is another highly invasive plant under the right conditions. (aquatic, bog)
It is native around here and responsible for entirely filling in a few natural ponds in the area.

I like it too, and if planted in your regular garden (not aquatically, and not in a bog) and kept evenly moist, it will not be as invasive. Every seed germinates, VERY fast, so best thing to do is dead immediately after the flower fades.

For attracting butterflies the best plant I've has is Liatris. I've had Monarchs and Black Swallowtails and some black and blue ones I'd never seen before on it. These are butterflies I never saw before in any number in MY suburban yard. When the Liatris is blooming I have a LOT of them.

Mine is in a regular garden so I don't know if it will work in a pond garden: plant next to it instead?

Does anyone know how much sun these non-invasive cultivars can stand? One of the nursery websites said 'light sun' or part shade. Maybe it's my inherent silliness, but I keep giggling about the 'light sun' phrase and can't figure out what it means. Does that mean lightly filtered shade?

I have a spot that has moister soil than the rest of my garden, but it basically has full sun until some of the shrubs grow taller. Does that mean I should wait if I want to plant these lythrums? Thanks!

Oh - I'm in zone 6b, mid-TN, clay soil, and it gets HOT.

corylopsis, my lythrums are growing in full sun and do fine. However when we get really hot winds when the temperature is around 100, the tips of the leaves get burned.

They actually do better in cooler climates. That is why they are banned in the Northeast part of the Country. In the warmer parts of the Country, they are well behaved and are actually recommended by the Extension Services.

In your area they should do well and not be a problem.

Thank you, catfishsam! I had been wondering about these plants for awhile - I haven't seen anything else I like better for the color and form, but the one chance I had to buy them, I didn't because I was worried about its reputation.

This thread has been very informative. Thanks again!

corylopsis, plants tend to become invasive in areas where the climate and soil conditions are perfect for them to grow. In other areas, they may be well mannered or even hard to grow.

Purple Loosestrife is a good example of this. Even here in Colorado, it is a problem plant in northern Colorado around the Denver area, but is well mannered here in southern Colorado. The southern part of the state is 10 to 15 degrees hotter which makes a difference to the plant.

catfishsam,

believe me, i'm soaking up every word you say. just last week i had a scare about a plant that i read somewhere might be invasive...then i read elsewhere on gw some very stern words about planting invasives - that people who did this were not being good members of their community, etc. i literally lost sleep over it! the next morning, i called the extension office (my first time ever) and spoke to a VERY nice man who talked me down, at least about my plant (which I get to keep as long as I don't abandon my house for 30 years). His actual words were, "let it grow and enjoy it - it's a nice plant".

anyway, your explanation makes a lot of sense and also carries the gift of building even more trust in my gardener friend who told me that this was a non-invasive variety. I admit I was looking a little cock-eyed at him because I"d had "lythrum" filed in my memory as "do not plant" while the other part of my brain was saying, "but it's so pretty!" :)

gosh, when you said "100 degrees", I thought you were closer to me here in the South! here's hoping you stay cool!

Good grief. If you lived in the Lakes areas of Wisconsin, Minnesota or Michigan you might understand the problem a little better. However, in the 24 years I lived and gardened in Wisconsin, I never heard of any variety of lythrum EXCEPT Purple Loosestrife that was banned. In fact, the Master Gardener's program up there suggests several others to take the place of it that are just as attractive and don't cause the same problems. And there are problems. It is not just the non-native cattails that are forced out. It crowds out everything. At least the cattails can be eaten by wildlife. Purple Loosestrife does not serve as food or even shelter for anything. I passed a huge wetlands on my way to work for several years. It took only four years for the Purple Loosestrife to cover the entire area except the main channel and it cost taxpayers a fortune to keep that open. Eradication will take forever. The seeds are produced in the millions from each plant and spread very easily with a high germination rate. The roots send out massive systems of more roots that eat up the shore and shallow waters. It is VERY difficult to kill without poisoning the entire ecosystem. It is the Kudzu of the northern wetlands and it takes only one lakeside property owner who neglects or refuses to control it to cause damage to the property of others. I wouldn't buy waterfront property for just that reason. There is always someone who thinks the rule is dumb so they are going to ignore it.
Please remember that PURPLE Loosestrife is only one cultivar of Lythrum. There are many others and the growers are working energetically to develop new ones that are just as beautiful but are not invasive such as the ones you have mentioned. Gooseneck Loosestrife is another cultivar that can be invasive but not to the level of the Purple. Sandy

Sandy, Purple Loosestrife does have an economic value. Bee keepers love purple loosestife since it provides months of flowers for their bees. Cattails don't provide anything for bees at all. My purple loosestrife is always full of bees, but never the cattails.

So if you were a bee keeper you would love purple loosestife.

Purple Loosestrife is a real problem in certain areas of the country where it is invasive. However, that is not true in all areas of the Country. In some states the Extenstion Service actually recommends planting it.

Purple Loosestrife spreads from seeds and unlike a lot of pond plants doesn't spread from rhizome and stolons.

People wrongly assume that because it is invasive in one area it is invasive in all areas.

Sandy, I think this entire thread exists because people are trying to share good information about the different kinds of lythrum.

Catfishsam, your response showed me yet another layer to this learning-about-plants-business. It's very helpful to have reinforced the issue of (seeds/rhizomes/etc.) with such a clear example. As a new gardener and something of an avid learner, I appreciate that a lot. And what a concept: to want to have the wrong site for a plant! (here's a moment to allow my poor brain to short out: fzzztt)

Sandy, if it makes you feel any better, I live in the land of kudzu so I get it, I don't have a bog or a pond but only a slightly moister area of my garden (I bounced over from the perennial forum, where this thread popped up), I'm only interested in the non-invasive types, I like to deadhead a lot, and I'm planning to subject everything I have to a lot of heavy sun. Hope that helps. And I still think the Morden Pink is pretty and maybe better off known as Aquatic butterfly bush. :)

Here is my STERILE Morden's Pink with some lilies.
{{gwi:220518}}

Joyce, it looks a little darker than mine, but that might be due to the photo or perhaps the climatic conditions?

Joyce, are you growing yours in water or in the flower garden? I have never had much luck in growing mine in the flower garden since we are so dry here in Colorado, but I guess in wetter areas of the country they do fine.

Mine is growing right in my gardens, getting constant moisture from an inground automatic sprinkler system.
Probably getting more nutrients than aquatically too, since the roots are free to roam and I do lightly sprinkle cheapo 10-10-10 about once a month around *some* of my perennials...maybe why it looks darker.

This plant is supposed to be a garden plant too, sold mostly in the landscape business as a garden perennial, not as an aquatic.

Kudzu is a perfect example of the reason to restrict the growth of an invasive plant. While it's major infestation is in the deep south it has made it's way to W.Va. and Pennsyvania. Apparently, seeds stick to trucks, cars and boats and travel long distances. The same is true for Purple Loosestrife. Boats in particular are good for hitchhiking seeds of many plants that grow in or near the water. The tiny seeds even cling to your shoes and clothing to be dropped who knows where. A bit of mud under a microscope may show numerous seeds.
The Morden's Pink is a much better choice AND it is legal. BTW, Purple Loosestrife does spread from bits of root. Sandy

This is such a pretty plant so it is a shame that it is prohibited in some areas.

{{gwi:220519}}