Thanks for your input, Luxrosa. I am really encouraged now to grow my Sombreiul as a shrub. Although it has never been a vigorous grower for me, tying and training it is something I do not enjoy, nor do very well. I do love the blooms and I would never consider removing it from my garden, but I do believe that in my particular case, growing it as a shrub is the better option.
Molly

Just make sure to give it plenty of room. Mine throws out thick long canes ( not always vertical). When it gets past 10 feet, it starts making the finer blooming growth. I'll be interested to find out how it grows when pruned lower down.

It would be very big. Very. Mine grew as a climber on an arbor. After a few years we had to take it down to paint the arbor, and when we did, I cut it back hard. It responded by producing lots and lots and lots of very vigorous canes. An explosion of canes. Big, thick, strong, thorny canes. It would cover an eight foot circle of real estate at the least, and possibly a ten foot one. And it is so thorny you would have a dreadful time weeding under it.

Do it if you want to. It may well be magnificent. But you have been warned, and are going into it with your eyes open.

My neighbor has always pruned his Sombreuil as a shrub and it seems to do fine, although he does have to cut off some longer, limber canes. It's got Rose Mosaic Virus so may not be as vigorous as other plants, but it makes a nice display anyway.
Anita

My Sombreuil was mislabled as Souv de la Malmaison when I purchased it. I discovered the error when 8 foot canes shot out of it the first year (plus the blooms are obviously different). It was planted in an area where a shrub should have grown, and has since been relocated next to the fence.

My experience with it growing unsupported is the same as everyone else's: thick unbendable canes & large thorns. My problem leaving it as a shrub, was that in edition to the area not being large enough, was that it was a very ununiform shape. Not the prettiest shrub shape to say the least :)

Tammy

I would also think that it would need a lot of space. Mine is climbing on a 8 ft wide 10 foot high arch with one end in a bed and the other at the house. It covered the arch, and then went another 15 feet up the side of the house.

Jackie

Oh my goodness, I may wind up eliminating the problem of tying and training, but than develop a problem with space allotted for this rose if I grow it as a shrub. This rose is at least 7 years old and has never had more than 5-7 canes, which has always been perplexing to me. I transplanted it from its original location in hopes of it becoming more vigorous, but it never has. I am concerned, however, that if I start to prune as a shrub, it may explode into new growth and I simply won't have the room it will need. I have to really think about this before I make a decision. I am so grateful for the input each of you has provided.
Molly

When I lived in the Dallas, TX area, I also grew the Sombreuil sold by ARE. I grew it on a large arch for 5 or 6 years there before I moved. In all that time, I did not find it to be nearly as vigorous as many people here are describing. ARE describes this as being a "mannerly climber", as opposed to a vigorous climber. Is it possible that ARE sells a clone that is less vigorous, or that most other people are growing grafted plants? Or is it possible that while Sombreuil grows more vigorously in a cooler climate, it might grow more slowly in the hotter Texas climate? Perhaps you could call ARE and ask their opinion of how the plant will grow as a free standing shrub.

Plantlover -- We had for many years a pair of Sombreuil over an arch. One was from ARE, and the other was purchased from Limberlost. Both grew canes easily 12-15-ft long, in Southern California.

I HAVE grown Sombreuil freestanding, and found it just became too large for its location, but I might try it again, in another location, as it was magnificent that way.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura County, Southern California

Is it possible that these smaller versions of Sombreuil are actually the tea roses Mlle de Sombreuil, not the vigorous climber? That might explain some of the confusion.

I doubt it Folly -- That rose was sold as 'La Biche' until just the most recent few years. It probably still is so sold, in some quarters.

Jeri

Mine is not vigorous either, but I don't remember where I bought it. Mine's in a bad position: fairly shady and with some root competition from a tree. It's doing well for where it is, really, but he's been no monster at all. Hopefully he has the vigor to fill in a bit :)

OK. Maybe Folly is right.

Meredith, did you buy 'Mlle. de Sombreuil,' a Tea Rose? This a typically-Tea rose twiggy bush: (See 2 Photos immediately below):
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Or did you buy the modern Climbing rose, sold as 'Sombreuil'? A vigorous climber with really awesome prickles, on long, arching, semi-rigid canes? Blooms are a flat rosette, white, often tinged buff or buff pink, in cool weather. (See 1 photo, below):
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I warned ARS when they confirmed that 'Sombreuil' name that it would only lead to continued confusion. It has.

Jeri

Jeri, my non vigorous version from ARE fits your photo and description in all points except the vigorous part. Of course, mine did grow in all day full Texas sun (next to a driveway at that) in clay soil, but the same growing conditions didn't seem to affect the vigor of the Dortmund growing 10 - 15 feet away.

Well, she's a paragon of vigor here. :-)

Jeri

I can only say that my Sombreuil (then called Colonial White by A.R.E.) is not what was sold as LaBiche because when I purchased mine at A.R.E. my sister purchased a LaBiche from them on the same trip there. Here is A.R.E.'s description of Sombreuil on their website:
Sombreuil
1880
This healthy but thorny climber was previously sold by us as 'Colonial White.� Its creamy white blooms are very large, flat, and quartered, with a most delicious Tea fragrance. The plant is reportedly free from mildew. This mannerly climber is ideally suited for use as a pillar rose, or training on a low wall, fence, or trellis.
8 to 12 feet
I plan a trip there in a couple of weeks and perhaps they have an in-ground planting of Sombreuil which will help me determine if my plant is merely wimpy in size, or if they now have a different Sombreuil.
Molly

No. I'm pretty sure they have the same Sombreuil they always had. It was probably sold as Sombreuil as early as it was sold as "Colonial White," but if I had my 'druthers, I'd call it Colonial White, and end the confusion.

They also have for a long time sold as 'La Biche' the rose that is now acknowledged as 'Mlle. de Sombreuil.' Their starting stock of that would have come from the Huntington Botanical Gardens, where it grew, having been donated by Phillip Robinson, who found it in NoCal.

Jeri

It drives me crazy that I can't smell anything from this rose. It's constantly blooming and I'm thankful for that but oh how I wish I could smell the fragrance of this beautiful rose.