The Indiana Association of Soil and Water Conservation may be a good place to start.

tj

Here is a link that might be useful: IASWCD

a good place to start is at the county road commission ...

in MI.. it looks to my eye.. that that is ALL road easement.. and theoretically .. their responsibility ... i am not sure you can 'legally' plant things in a road easement ...

i would presume the property owner could not build a retaining wall there .. as it would impede the roadway ...

i would think about sending such a Certified letter, return receipt requested. .... asking what they plan to do about it ...

and as an aside.. i would track down the nimrod who thought water will turn 90 degrees .. and on principle.. smack him/her.. upside the head and ask ... WHAT WERE YOU THINKING ... lol

ken

ps: the fact that the gas co. was working in that spot... supports the easement theory ....

"We have a small dry stream running through our neighborhood. It floods severely a few times each year..."

That sounds like an active stream to me. It looks like somebody tried to retain the hill with plastic previously (first pic?)

That spot looks like it needs to be covered with a load of big rocks that won't wash away, and hold the shape of what's left of the hill as you mention you've done in your yard. But I agree, that looks like the responsibility of the city or county. If that hill goes, so will the road... Why isn't there a culvert for the water to go under the road and on its' way? Maybe it's just the angle of the pic making it look like that's where the water "wants" to go.

If that were my yard, I would want to establish a formal border, just like for a flower bed, but much more strong and "industrial" (and correctly sized) to control the flooding/direct that water for the parts that aren't as close to the road, like concrete or very large rocks.

Maybe the storm sewer system is just inadequate for the area? Where is the water coming from to begin with? I think I asked more questions than you did... but maybe the answers to them could point you in a productive direction.

first pic.. behind the orange thing.. is that a lake??

ken

[Harry Carey voice] Holy Cow! I think you're right. Didn't even see that. Even more sure now the water does want to go under the road - downhill. This seems like an odd problem in what looks like an older, established area. Has something diverted/changed the flow pattern uphill?

I need to provide some clarification! :-)

tsugajunkie, contacting the local SWCD is on my list of things to do this month. However, it's primarily related to planting and not structural or flooding issues. The city will not help solve flooding problems when public infrastructure is not at risk�even in this case where they themselves were responsible for exacerbating an existing problem. Maybe SWCD can address the planting in easement issue, too.

Just outside the view on the left (east) is a 42" storm sewer that is THE headwaters for this little stream. Most of the drainage area (80% or more?) is paved/developed. This is why summertime thunderstorms are such a problem. And, that's part of the reason this area eroded. Even though this erosion damage wasn't caused by flooding events and even though the terrain is relatively flat, the runoff from upstream comes through here at a very high velocity. If it weren't for the downstream driveway and street culverts, the aftereffects of summertime storms would make for some great kayaking.

Yes, purpleinopp, it's an older area with homes in the immediate area having been built in the '30s and '40s. However, in the late '60s thru mid-70s, a lot of apartment and commercial (strip malls) type development took place just east (upstream) of this location. (You can see just a bit of a strip mall in that second photo.) Control of stormwater runoff back in those days wasn't a big concern to city planners.

The street easement extends across part of the sloped area. If I had gotten a utility pole in one of those views (they're at the easement line), you'd have a better sense of that. The stream channel is not in the street easement.

The stream channel is a natural channel. Not constructed or altered in at least the past 50 years and probably not ever. The 90� turn (there are actually two in the neighbor's yard are both moving (one to the west and the other to the NE) a few inches per year. (I can measure it by a protruding 4" white PVC pipe in the stream bank and have watched that action for 36 years now.)

There are no water bodies (lakes or gravel pits) within a mile of us.

That first photo shows the landscaping fabric that the gas company's contractor put down when they originally reseeded the area that they slightly damaged during the gas main replacement project. For what it's worth, the project manager told me before they started the project that they would bore this section of the project to avoid impacting the stream. Guess where they set up their bore machine and guess what caused the erosion problem?!? In the first and third photos, if you look very closely, you can just barely make out the asphalt patch in the street.

To give you a better sense of why that area eroded, here's photo taken in our yard, about 200 feet downstream from the location shown in the other three photos. In our yard, the stream channel is lined with field stones. This work was initially done by the original owner, probably in the 1940s. I've had to re-do the work because of the increased volume and velocity of the storm-related flows. It's a challenge to keep all the stones in place. We enlarged our driveway culvert (from the original 18" to the new 24" x 30") to help MINIMIZE (NOT mitigate) the flooding. This photo from last summer was taken just upstream of our driveway culvert.

{{gwi:239559}}

To clarify one other point, the gas company repaired the stream bank. They drove stakes along that section of the stream bank and fastened horizontal steel sheeting of some sort to the stakes. They then backfilled and seeded again. They extended the sheeting far enough in each direction that the erosion problem has been solved.

The street was widened in 1979 and it's my belief that the construction project resulted in a steepening and shortening of that area between the stream channel and the edge of the pavement.

The bottom line is I don't expect the city to help the neighbor deal with this, and dealing with it needs to be inexpensive. Hopefully, I can help find a solution that keeps the cost down. Besides, I like to plant!!! That's why I'm asking you guys about planting.

I was going to say some kind of stone (we called it riprap where I grew up) as part of the solution.

There was a time when in such a situation, you'd take long willow branches and weave them together, fat end in the low part of the channel, and pinned to the soil.

If potential cost is a factor, I'd look for things that root easily, where one plant can be planted and the branches can be bent and pinned to the ground, allowing a colony to be formed.

The top plants on my list? Shrub dogwood, certain viburnums, willows, forsythia/abeliaphyllum.

I think your pics were chosen in part for impact, not necessarily for accuracy in water flow throughout the year? if that's the case, not sure why calycanthus wouldn't work.

but before you do anything...what's the right of way? if you are flirting with that line, I may choose to plant stuff that can deal with a regular haircut.

the junkie wins with the first answer ...

you need to talk with the county soil conservation district ... and fast ...

soil conservation is not.. as you suggest ... "not structural or flooding issues."

its about not making soil blow away in the wind.. or run down the river ...

by definition this problem is soil conservation ...

and.. it is about what you can plant.. to stop erosion.. which is your primary problem..

do NOT poo poo this resource.. as far as i am concerned.. they are the professionals. ..

in MI.. the soil conservation district has spring plant sales for such.. but i cant find any reference to such in IN ... see link for PDF

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: call them ASAP .. and get in their calender book for spring .... these peeps might have little to do in jan/feb in IN ... but come spring.. you will be hard pressed to get in touch .... so dont delay too much ... as far as reaching out ...

i found a link

apparently the state site linked above.. doesnt promote the sales.. but the county offices do...

as an example.. see this link for st joe county ...

when you divide out the 10 plant lots.. you are talking about a buck or two a plant or so ...

look in the remarks for E.. erosion control ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: another pdf

Thanks, all, for the additional comments.

That steep bank is very dangerous for the new neighbor to mow. It is stable and not subject to erosion except when a local utility contractor screws up--and now this winter with the damage the snow plow has done. The utility fixed the problem that's shown in the photos. It's OK now. Unfortunately, those are the only photos of the area that I have available to upload and they seem to have become too much of a distraction.

If this were my property, I would have replaced the grass with low-maintenance plant material long ago. Definitely not hardscaping. Rip rap would be my very last choice if it were my property. I think the neighbor agrees.

I'm looking for plant material suggestions from you guys to supplement whatever recommendations (and whatever limitations) we get locally. The immediate concern will be the portion of that sloped area that the errant snow plow and the tow truck tore up last month. Replanting that torn-up area with grass would make no sense at all.

For those of you commenting on the unrelated erosion at the stream bends.........I obtained a rudimentary plan from either SCS or SWCD about 30 years ago for the former neighbor after the stream flooding was exacerbated by the city's street construction project in '79. (Back in those days, I knew people at most of the state and federal agencies.) That plan didn't address the embankment along the street because that area was not eroding and not a concern. The plan focused on the two 90� bends and proposed using limestone rip rap. The neighbor felt the plan was too expensive and nothing was ever done. The new neighbor now has that old plan, but didn't particularly like it either. In any case that problem is less pressing.

Ken, That link you provided is one I hadn't seen. Unfortunately, none of the shrubs in that list are identified for erosion control. Other than the trees, the only thing recommended for erosion control is the Pachysandra and I thought it was better suited to shade. It does extremely well in shade near the stream in our yard. If it can tolerate full sun, it might be something to consider.

Strobiculate, you mentioned Forsythia. I've got F. 'Ottawa' near the street in my yard. It stays relatively small and will tip-root. It's something I had considered supplying to the neighbor, but hadn't seen it recommended specifically as a shrub that's good for erosion. Do you have experience with Forsythia as an erosion control plant? I'll have to check it out, too. I've also got American Cranberry growing along that stream in my yard, but I don't know how well it would do on a steep slope for erosion control. Have you had experience with it or seen it used in a situation like this?

No one has commented on my query re the Calycanthus 'Athens." The species is supposed to be good for erosion control, but I don't know about full sun on this kind of a slope. It suckers and that's probably why it's recommended, but can we keep it away from the street? Maybe we'll have to be the guinea pigs on that one if the neighbor's willing.

Restore,
If you want something to plant for erosion control,
the first and best selection is ornamental grasses.
Nothing controls it better than grasses.
Look at a nursery near you to see what selection of ornamental grasses will do well in your area.
THere are dwarf grasses also that you might like the look of if you do'nt want something big.
Check out the ornamental grass forum.

The stream channel is a natural channel...There are no water bodies (lakes or gravel pits) within a mile of us.

Before you do anything, you need to make sure you are not in violation of any laws concerning water. This is from Missouri: "Physically, there are things that can be done, but messing with the stream flow can be a complicated and risky business both environmentally and legally. A river or stream has a dynamic (hydraulic) action and if you alter it in one place, you can cause something else to happen somewhere else. See if you can determine what is causing the stream to cut into your bank or what has changed to cause this. Sometimes upstream development will increase runoff or otherwise alter the hydraulics. There are specific laws addressing avulsion, accrual, accretion and erosion."

That stream must be going somewhere and it is most likely considered surface water. There are very specific Federal regulations about this. Most likely, there are state regs/laws also. Just be cautious and be sure to contact the proper authorities. The soil conservation folks are a good place to start.

cyn427, if I misspoke, I apologize. My reason for starting this thread had nothing to do with the stream channel. The focus is on the steep embankment BETWEEN this stream channel and the street. Any work on the stream channel would come later, if at all.

As far as laws and regulations are concerned, a downstream neighbor built a dam the entire width of this stream's floodway without a permit. The city called it "maintenance." The dam is still in place. That neighbor also built a very long (and effective berm to protect his home at the expense of other neighbors, and did it without a permit. That berm is still there as well. A neighbor and I both enlarged our driveway culverts without permits. Another neighbor got a permit to relocate this stream channel away from his house (and closer to his septic system which was already near the stream) in an effort to protect his house. He didn't bother mentioning the septic system in the permit application. Sometimes in life, the laws and regs have little meaning. Nearly all of these efforts were in reaction to the city's 1979 street intersection project I mentioned earlier. As part of that project, they also made changes to the existing storm sewer and enlarged the culvert that is the point of discharge onto the neighbor's property. (That pre-existing storm sewer replaced the upper section of our little stream, probably in the '60s). That storm sewer constitutes the sole source of flow above the neighbor's property.

We're not dealing with 21st century water management thinking here. The strip malls I mentioned (and two apartment complexes) were all grandfathered in with respect to stormwater management. The developers weren't required to worry about it when all of those projects were built from the '60s to mid-'70s. The city didn't worry about it either when they exacerbated the pre-existing flooding problem with their road construction project in '79. No consideration whatsoever. Today, the city's stance is that if a flooding problem doesn't affect the city's public infrastructure, they're not going to deal with it.

Having worked in the state's water management programs for many years, I have a fairly good idea of what we're dealing with in terms of the applicable laws, statutes and regulations--and their effectiveness. It's not always pretty!

butterfly4u, I had expected more comments regarding the possibility of using grasses. It's something I know little about, but plan to research.

I've got Joe Pye Weed ('Gateway' variety) that does very well in my yard and am wondering if it would work on a slope. Surely it's a great plant for soil erosion control, given the nature of its root system. It's very difficult to dig and divide, but I'd do it if the neighbor is interested in including it in a new planting.

I would use sedges and shrubs. The root systems would hold the soil and prevent erosion. A few possibilities:

Buttonbush (Cephalanthus occidentalis) - Can tolerate standing water, but also does well in drier soils. There are a few in the swamp behind our house.

Smooth Alder (Alnus serrulata) - Another swamp bush that can handle partially dry soils.

Witherod - (Viburnum cassinoides) - Does well for me in moist soils, native to swamps across Eastern North America. Good fall color, excellent wildlife shrub.

Common elderberry - (Sambucus canadensis) - A bit rangy in growth, but will grow just about anywhere.

American bladdernut (Staphylea trifolia) - Curious, unusual swamp & streamside shrub - Covered with pretty cream flowers in the Spring.

These are just a few possibilites!

From what I recall (sorry you may have to reserach a bit more) grasses are a superior option as the dead foilage mats down in the winter and offers better erosion control during spring floods, especially if the plants haven't sprung foward yet.

jimbobfeeny, thanks for the suggestions. I've planted several different viburnums in our yard, but have never looked at cassinoides. I've never researched any of your other recommendations, but we do have S. canadensis growing on both properties. It's not near the stream channel, but I've got one that's in the floodway (in a flat spot) and doing fine. If it's good for controlling erosion on a slope, I could help the neighbor transplant some.

whaas, that makes sense re spring protection, but we don't often have flooding until the thunderstorms arrive in late spring after everything has begun to grow again. Still, I want to investigate some of the grasses and see what's possible.

While doing some research yesterday, I discovered a complication. I was wrong to think the neighbor's property had the same street right-of-way line as our own property. Ours is 25 feet from the street's center. When I looked at my copy of the plans that DOT prepared for their big intersection project in '79, I was surprised to see that the right-of-way line for the neighbor's property measures 42 or 43 feet (probably because the neighbor's is a corner lot.) That means I was wrong about the stream channel being outside the right-of-way. Hence, the complication. I'm planning to talk with the SWCD erosion specialist early next week and begin to find out how the right-of-way situation affects the range of options and responsibilities.