Heat tolerant vs heat resistant vs heat loving
greensingh
16 years ago
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diane_nj 6b/7a
16 years agomike_in_new_orleans
16 years agoRelated Discussions
Geothermal heat pump vs air source heat pump vs gas
Comments (27)Air source heat pumps don't make sense in areas where winter temps frequently fall below 32 degrees. Once you get below freezing, you will be running the auxillary heat a lot. If you decide to go the air source route, you will want a second stage gas fired auxillary heat. I live in the mid-atlantic region in the mountains and selected GT. That choice was coupled with a blown cellulose insulation package. My other choice was a propane heat/electric AC with a foam insulation package. Both options were roughly the same install cost. Both would have provided similar energy efficiency. At the time we selected, propane was 3.75 a gallon and rising (with no end in sight) so we went with GT. The delta cost for the GT system (above the cost for a HE propane heat and electric AC system) was $15,000 for the heat pumps and loop plumbing (including pumps) plus $17,000 for digging the pit. The pit excavation should not have cost as much as it did but it is a 12 ton system and the hole was gigantic (120' x 48' x 6'). We live on a mountain and hit a bunch of boulders that required special equipment to get out. Rocky soil also required a 1' base of stone dust to cover the loop piping. The total cost for the GT HVAC system including all ducting was $50,000 plus the pit excavation cost of 17K. It is a large investment and I would only recommend it if you plan to live in the house a very long time. My heating bills are great - maybe 300 dollars maximum a month during peak winter for an 8500 square foot home (5900 living and the rest a condiitoned but unfinished basement). Make sure that whatever equipment you choose can be maintained by more than 1 very qualified HVAC company who has many years of GT experience. In my area there is only 1 GT company who has over 20 years of experience but I am stuck with them for maintenance. There have been times when I wanted to fire them but cannot. Local competition is a good thing. Also - if you build a tight home make sure that you consider ventilation and dehumidification in the HVAC design. I wound up adding both a whole house dehumidifier and energy recovery vent after we moved in becuase we had basement moisture issues as well as stale air in the winter. Tight homes are great for energy efficiency but can create health issues too. It is easy to deal with as long as you plan for it. Good luck with the build....See MoreHeat Pump running continually vs. using the back up heat
Comments (23)A test like that is not accurate unless the parameters are tightly controlled and all contributing factors noted. The meter reading includes all household electric use, not just the heat pump. Cooking? Bathing? Dishwashing? Laundry? Sunshine vs. overcast? Wet vs. dry weather (affects heat pump defrost frequency)? Did the 3°F recovery involve use of auxiliary heat strips? 2°F and 3°F setback is very minimal. More savings is potentially garnered with larger setbacks. I'm in TX. We had a rare snowfall during a wet norther on Dec 4. After that Dec 4 weather incident, I didn't run the central heating (heat pump) for several weeks. Instead, I used a space heater only in the bedroom at night. I noted that even with occasional nighttime temps into the upper 30°Fs, the unheated rooms in my house rarely dropped below 60°F. So ... if I had been running the heat pump at 70°F normal with a 2°F setback (68°F), it still would run to maintain 68°F during the setback periods ... but an 8°F to 10°F setback (setpoint of 62°F or 60°F), it would run very little during the setback periods, if at all. That'd make a difference on KWH usage in regards to setback vs. none....See MoreUp front costs of Geothermal heat pump vs. other heating methods
Comments (79)It boggles my mind that people think 10 years is a long time. After installation, you pay each month (including financing) about what you were already paying anyway (probably less). You do it for 10 years, (especially with all the new government incentives, rebates, and low-interest financing now available) and after 10 years you're paying a ridiculously paltry amount for heat. Of course it makes sense. Think of the payback over 20 years once that loan is paid off! Even if you only end up paying even 1/2 of the normal cost over that period (including the cost of your system and electric), you're still saving substantially. I know not everyone lives in a home for that long, but seeing low energy bills does increase home values. I've seen homes sold almost immediately with their main advertising point being their geothermal system even in our horrible present climate while others still linger on the market. Not only that, but why not decrease your monthly bills slightly (before the loan is paid off)? Slightly lower bills, a higher sales price which will pay off the rest of that loan - still makes sense. We had someone come out to our house and they specifically calculated everything from current estimated heating costs, heating/cooling with geo, then savings/payback period. This was a full service option, including thermostats, etc. Finding that should not be difficult. One argument I saw above made no sense. If it really is worth insulating your home to use a normal system, it is a no-brainer to insulate your home using geo. Whether you decide to use geo or not, you can't say, "Well, normal is better, because we insulated, too." That makes no sense. Insulate either way. Then compare. The financial analysis does not make much sense, either. Yes, it would be wonderful if we could just stop paying the oil company, live without heat, and invest that money! Realistically, while you could want to put away the whole $25,000, you really are still using it for heat either way over those 14 years as projected. Geo, with the loan, electric, etc, will cost about the same each month as heat before the loan is paid off, so you can't just pretend that money could be invested elsewhere. Use it upfront with geo, use it over several years with oil, it makes no difference. That money is being spent on heat. Should it be spent on something worthwhile, or just, at the end of 10 years, have you still spending the same amount on more heat with oil? Geo will typically initially cost you a little less (including the loan and electricity) per month than you would be paying otherwise, then suddenly drop dramatically to only the cost of using the system as soon as that loan is paid off. That's money you would have spent anyway each month with your normal system (even though some of it went to financing, it is still less that what you would have paid for oil). Then suddenly, once the loan is gone, you actually DO have perhaps $1,000 a year in money saved that you can invest if you wish over 10 years. If, with financing costs, it does cost more per month than your normal heating system, that's one thing; but if not, the argument that it is wasting money is not valid. You're spending it anyway. Might as well spend it on something that will, in the future, save you tons of money. (Not just a little, a lot.)...See MoreHelp - AC vs Heat Pump vs Geothermal in Oregon Log Home
Comments (6)Thanks Tigerdunes: Electricity use is as follows: First 1,000 kWh 6.778 â per kWh Over 1,000 kWh 7.500 â per kWh ( I use about 800 kwh without AC and 1300 Kwh with it) Propane: 2.69per gallon - usage in winter used to be approx 350-400 gallons per month! I agree that the mark ups for the Heat Pumps condensor are outrageous. The cheapest price I was quoted was $5310 for a Trane XB14 unit, or $5225 for RUUD. I started shopping in May, have had 4 contractors out here, and still see major issues with each contractor. The one I like the best is from Sky Heating, as he was the most thorough, and company got the best reviews. He had the lowest prices as well, but they are still about 3 times the wholesale cost. I have the money to pay for the more expensive systems, but I just can't find a good reason to do that. won't, on principle, as I feel they are purposefully marking them up. This kind of stuff happens to everyone, but seems to happen a bit more to single women ?!? (kind of a sexist comment, but I have noticed this to be true). Back to the subject at hand - I looked at QualitySmith.com for nationwide averages for installation on various Trane Heat Pumps - I compared it to the bids I received: Trane Installation costs (range nationwide) XR15:Install cost $4500-$10,000 (quote= $8100) XB14 Install cost = $3000-$7500 (qutoe was $5300) XB13 install cost =$2500-$6500 (quote was $6400) I noticed in another post that you were recommending a SEER 13 unit, but did not like the Trane XB13 (SEER 14-15) but not the Trane units. You specifically wrote that wrote that you would not get a Trane XB13. I was wondering if you liked any of the Trane models that I have listed? What Brands/models do you like that are SEER 13? Any suggestions for how to find a more competitive bid? I tried Bargaining with one contractor, and I could tell he was completely resistant to it- giving me less information each time I contacted him; strong arming me to come back and meet with me again, etc. Here are some other Brands I received bids for - they also seemed a bit high but are cheaper than others: : Carrier 25HBC5 Comfort - SEER 14.5 FOR $6289_ York YHJFLX series SEER 14.5 for $5869.00 RUUD 4 ton Achiever SEER 14.5 $5225 I would like to pay less than $5000 but that has not been possible. With 5000 Square foot home, and the logs not chinked, I don't envy the contractors for trying to decide what would work best. A two zone system is preferred in houses like this but the cost to retrofit is exorbitant. Desperately confused in Oregon! Thanks again...See Morebarbarag_happy
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