How To Create A Small No Maintenance Pond
rufassa
14 years ago
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Comments (15)
goodkarma_
14 years agolynne22
14 years agoRelated Discussions
Our Pond Maintenance and Set-up
Comments (18)I know our pond was discussed in detail on some koi forums, it was bought up by Roddy Conrad (many years ago) he discussed how we manage to successfully maintain clean and healthy pond practices with aggressive water exchanges and a separate biological pond. I read many of the posts with Roddy but unfortunately missed yours. Water changes and flow thru systems have of course been a cornerstone of fish keeping, from fish farms and hatcheries to backyard ponds forever. Many of the Japanese growers seem to have flow thru systems, but most of us don't have a stream/river in our back yards for that so we have to make due with water changes. Up until the last few years most of the discussion in Koi Ponds has been about how frequency relates to keeping fish alive. In the last few years it's changed by a very few people to frequency relating to other things like clear water. algae control, and increasing fish growth. It's new so interesting to me. What surprised me is that you are already basically doing the 24/7 drip thing except once a day instead of 24/7 and hose instead of drip. Your volume is right in the range of 10-70% per week (varies by goals). And you've been doing it for a really long time so that's good data. Not sure how long Andy Moo has been doing 24/7, he's been around a long time too. And of course you're also using your hose as a TPR and basically the same as vacuum. Whether dirt is pushed to suction or suction is moved to dirt the result is the same. And you're doing it often. Pretty much all the people I've dealt with who wanted a bottom system as a option (not required for fish load) wanted it solely as a convenience. They just want a pond for looking at fish after work and don't want to pick up a hose. I do not belong to any of these forums, ( I did try briefly, however they were beyond snobby) as they have very expensive Japanese koi and they have sterile ponds, (meaning no rocks on the edges) also their filtration systems cost many thousands of dollars and they are quite snobby about their koi and ponds. Hell they don't even consider butterfly koi to be koi. Every forum seems to have a single specific type of pond that the 20-40 dominating posters have. Every forum says they accept all kinds of ponds but that sure isn't true. They'll say "all ponds are different, and that's great" and then launch into telling people why their pond is all wrong. But that's forums, protecting their little world. I most read pond forums that sometimes have good info but I don't find much reason to post very often. I've learned a lot about that I might be able to adapt to other ponds and more importantly so I understand these systems. Aquarium forums are even better for learning but I never post in those since I've never even had an aquarium or are interested in one. But those folks sure know there stuff, lots of test data. I think the hard it is to keep fish alive the better the forum because they have to take everything more serious. Fish farming forums are good too. If it don't pay they don't use it. However, the main reason I won't frequent these koi forums is because with all their expensive and super elaborate filter systems -- many of them they still use PP to help clear their ponds. I don't get it, why subject your fish to dangerous chemicals? If you systems are so wonderful why do they need chemicals and uv lights? You can see the amount of trouble I could get myself into frequenting these forums. :) Besides, my koi are mutts. I haven't seen much in those forums about PP use for general maintenance in several years. Occasional use by few for a specific reason. Or maybe they just don't talk about it. There's been better filters developed since Roddy was talking about PP and way easier to use, and pretty cheap, oxidizers have become available since then too. They need those things because they keep a different kind of pond than you do. For example for me to do the kind of water changes in San Jose would have added about $80 per month to my water bill since they use a tried system. While $960 a year isn't a lot I kept the water clear enough for me using other cheaper means. It's just a choice thing. For my next pond I can design a pond specifically to include 24/7 drip so I can reuse the waste water for landscaping. Here in Phoenix we water the landscape all year, and use a lot of water for that. So the water from the 24/7 drip will be basically free. Free and completely automated me likes. I know Dr. Roddy Conrad from another forum that we were both members of. We got along well,( but I did disagree with his PP practices.) He knew our set-up that why he was able to explain to the koi forum members our set up and aggressive water exchanges. "Successful pond husbantry practices " he called it. I don't remember if the other forum members agreed with him. Probably not. The Doctor that lost all the koi in his pond (twice) was that from on overdose of PP? I don't think I've ever posted directly with Roddy but have reads hundreds of his posts. He may have taught me more about ponds than maybe anyone else, especially when I was first learning about koi keeping. I've just been interested in learning different techniques and don't really have an opinion on whether it's good or bad. Just a tool. A hammer is good for driving a nail, not good for opening eggs. The tool itself is neither good or bad to me. I don't find a lot applications for PP but when needed and useful it works fine. But I'm sure happy Roddy took the time to teach me how to use PP, it's effects, and it's downsides through his posts. I'd be happy to buy him dinner any day. Plus his explaining, experimenting and providing lots of early data on Trickle Towers was very important to the hobby imo. And he took a lot of crap from the peanut gallery to boot which taught me a lot about forums which has helped me in developing software. TT popularity may have been short lived in the Koi Pond world but lead to even better filters. So I take what I can from those forums and just try and stay out of the crap...as best I can....See MorePond maintenance tips/advice wanted
Comments (32)Plants You have a lot. I'm not on site so hard to tell, but from the pics I'd probably remove all the plants from the pond and vacuum or scoop the bottom with a swimming pool leaf rake. When removing the plants note how deep they are. Moving them to deeper water might be an issue. For everything other than lilies moving plants to more shallow water, or even above the water is almost always better for the plants, so that would be OK if you like. Then I could assess the plants and pond better. Pots, baskets, directly plants? Can pots be reused? I can now see the pond without plants. How's it look to me? Were some plants hiding something that I want to continue to hide? I come up with a plan. Buy replacement pots? Maybe reduce the number of species returned to the pond. If the plants are planted directly in soil, not pots, you really have to empty the pond and deal with the plants. Fish have to be moved. That's a whole deal I won't get into now. Most (all) the plants will have to be divided. Depends on when last done. I just made a post on this. Most of dealing with plants just has to be learned with experience. But here's some things you may not know... When removed from the pond the plants can stay out of water for a really long time. Weeks, even months. The leaves may die back but the roots (rhizomes) last a long time out of water. Keeping them in water can actually cause rot. You can also plant them in regular garden pots with dirt, same as a regular garden plant, and just keep them well watered and they grow great. This is true for every plant except lilies, floaters and plants that grow completely underwater. Some times if you look up a plant on the web or printed on the label when buying a plant it will say 6" of water, or 12" of water, or whatever. Many people think that means the plant must be in that much water. This is actually the maximum depth the plant can take. Most of these do better the less water. Even planted in the yard many of these plants will do well. Here in Phoenix many kinds of "pond plants" are used in yards. This is because "pond plant" isn't really a very good term... "vernal pool plant" would be better. They've adapted to living in standing water and also dry periods when there's no water which is what a vernal pool is. So knowing this can make your life easier, more options. Plants inside the pond = more work. So reducing them will be less work in the future. You can put some of these into pots around the edge of the pond, or in the ground, or switch to other kinds of plants around the edge. Gives you the same lush look with way less work and the pond appears much larger. Here are some pics of a pond I built in San Jose CA to demonstrate. No plant is inside the pond. And here the pot on the left is a "pond plant" called Horsetail Rush. It's a foam pot with no drainage hole, soil from the yard. This plant, like most "pond plants" can be very invasive, but no problem in a pot. And no drainage holes means no straining from leaking water (the pot on the right need drainage and therefore a catch pan under it). Go on vacation for a week or two the pot is fine with no watering. When it's time to divide it's no big deal....See More100 x 50 large pond maintenance for swimming
Comments (22)Forums are people. Without the people it's just unused software. Each pond forum has a distinct personality driven by the handful of regular posters. Within that group you have the forum royalty, normally just a few people. They post 20-100 times a day, have been a member forever. maybe even a forum monitor. Then a bunch of minions who always agree with the royalty. Getting a kind word from royalty is nirvana. Then a bunch of newbies that post for awhile and leave. Always a new flow of newbies at least in popular forums. And then a sprinkling of trouble makers. You know, the real A wads. People like Dr Eric Johnson who post actual info and disagree with forum dogma. It makes the royalty look bad, exposes their lack of any actual knowledge about ponds. We can't have that! People don't spend 6-10 hours a day posting for 10 years to be dethroned by some johnny-come-lately. First into the attack are the minions... repeating royalty dogma. What they lack in original thought they make up for with sheer numbers and personal insults, pummeling the invader with logic so relentless and mindless the invader can't type fast enough to refute it all. Each response the invader posts only adds to the word twisting and spinning the minions can use against the invader. As the invader starts to tire from the avalanche of nonsense the royalty step in for the coup de grâce. The oh so standard logic used in all forums to shut someone up once and for all... "well I don't know about all that data and science stuff...but I fart in my pond once a day and my pond is great". And with that the invader finally realizes that pond forums have nothing to do with ponds and everything to do with personal kingdoms. And Dr Eric Johnson stopped posting in forums. Many troublemakers like Dr Eric Johnson have been shown the door by self-proclaimed "friendly" members over the years. It's a nasty ugly affair. After the invader has been purged the nice, friendly, members can go back to patting themselves on the back saying what a friendly little forum they have. At least until another troublemaker comes along who dares to question forum dogma. I think nastiness may depend on perspective....See MoreOnce again, confused about pond maintenance
Comments (8)Lesliew There is some very good and very bad advise given here. First let me address the question of to clean or not to empty pond for cleaning. First I have seen no where that your pond has a bare liner anywhere, in fact you say you have a lot of gravel on the bottom. So I have to assume that the liner is covered with rock. If this is the case than you are building up debri in this rock that can not be removed by vacuuming. It normally can only be removed by emptying and pumping it out. Does this have to be removed? That depends on where you live and how you keep the pond in the winter. If you live somewhere the pond gets covered with ice than chances are that you will have a problem one winter. Can I tell you when this will happen? No that depends on a lot of different factors such as fish load, debri in pond, how a hole is kept in the ice, what state the debri in the pond is in, and how long the ice is on the pond. Is cleaning a pond hard on the pond? Yes but the killing of all the fish is harder on the owner. Do you need to add bacteria to the pond? This answer is going to start a lot of debate but here goes. If you have a pond that is covered in rock than you should add it as the manufacture suggests. If you live some where that you get ice on the pond than it becomes more important. Than it also depends on how good you are at keeping debri out of the pond. The main purpose of added bacteria is to break down debri in the pond smaller so that the bacteria that naturally occurs in the pond break it down to a point where it is not a problem. It does this far quicker than the bacteria in the pond can do it. The real problem comes from what type of bacteria in the pond is breaking this debri down. If the bacteria isn't getting any O2 than the bacteria that breaks the debri down produces some very nasty gases. These gases are what will kill the fish. Should I clean the pond with the fish in it? This depends on weather or not you have the bacteria that is producing these nasty gases and how fast you clean it. If you stir up this debri so that the gases are released faster than the pond can expell these gases thru the surface of the pond then the fish will be affected by these gases. Do I need a biological filter? Again this depends on several factors. Natural lakes and ponds don't have additional filters and they don't have problems. But that isn't quite true. Yes they do not have additional filters on them but nature keeps the fish load to what the body of water with the addition of fresh water can support. This is done by the amount of food that is available, concretations of natural chemicals that the fish put in the water gets high enough they stop reproducing and growing, and if all else fails fish kill offs. In the normal garden ponds these are controled. Fish are fed and water is changed so the fish load can quickly get higher than what the pond can support. Than what happens? Very simply you have fish die offs. I am sorry to be so windy but I waded into this thread not because of your situtation but because of other people that may read this thread and get some bad information. From what you have written you probably would not have a problem following the advise given on this thread but another ponder could have some very bad problems following it. Mike...See Moresleeplessinftwayne
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