Thanks so much saltcedar!! Wow, you guys are amazing. I appreciate this.

I'm in Southeastern Michigan. Macranthos, I think you may be right. Need to find a few more pictures, or venture off into an overgrown area nearby where I know there's some. This clump hadn't bloomed (not sure if it's biennial), but I'd be surprised if it would bloom in the full shade where it's growing. Thanks for the input! I'll post again if I positively ID.

if you want to kill a young tree/plant .. of any kind ... cut at ground level .. and apply a stumpkiller or undiluted roundup or generic to the cut.. using the very expensive applicator at the link ... https://www.google.com/search?q=plochmans+mustard&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=XQTcUYCCC_OFyQGCg4DAAg&biw=1154&bih=805&sei=XwTcUbmZHZK4yAHD0oDYDw this applicator can fall over without significant leakage .. is resealable ... and allows precise minimal usage ... do not store near the hot dogs ... spraying trees is not really an effective method .. as you have learned .. as they are a vast storage system.. and its hard to overcome that by spraying the leaves ... same for larger trees .. but you cant snip them etc ... you are aiming for the cambium layer ... so on large trees.. you just need to coat the outer one inch or so .. not the whole cut .... you are not only using the killer.. but removing ALL the canopy.. so you are interrupting the food storage process.. and weakening the tree ... with clipper and the applicator.. this can become a nice walk in the woods .. rather than a backbreaking chore ... i dont like to wear gloves... but i sometimes use a chemical rated kitchen glove to carry the applicator around .... ken https://www.google.com/search?q=cambium+layer&biw=945&bih=745&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkuqDh8tfPAhUFOCYKHaHZARoQ_AUIBygC&dpr=0.9

When I saw the first plant ,I too was thinking Ageratina, but after looking at the pics, decided against it. Don't think its Verbesina virginica as the stem is too smooth. Agrimonia rostellata is a good fit for the second one, that's a new one for me. TulsaRose, thanks for the tip. Sports mode uses a fast shutter speed and needs a good deal of light. As JKekeesl pointed out, Im in heavy shade but I will give it a try. Part of my problem is poor eyesight, profuse sweating, and swatting attacking insects while attempting to take a pic !