dang it....I had a really well though out response all done, and my internet explorer crashed. So I'll try again...lol!! First...a few comments regarding how koi ponds compare to aquariums. Normally, aquariums are lightly stocked with small fish. It's really easy to keep the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle operating perfectly in a correctly stocked environment. Same as a rock bottom pond...lightly stocked and properly maintanied it can work. In a pond's bio filter, ammonia is converted to nitrite and then to nitrate. Nitrate is most easily removed froma koi pond by way of regular water changes. Ever try to keep an aquarium with goldfish? Many goldie keepers I know keep no gravel in the tank at all, because of maintenance. That gravel gets really filthy very fast. I had a lovely goldie tank once....and gave it up. the maintenance was a nightmare! I'd rather deal with a huge koi pond any day of the week. Some people are reporting sucess with rock bottom ponds and no maintenance. Again...it is directly related to stocking levels. I hope these ponds continue to perform well for years to come, but for the vast majority of people, they will not. Most watergardeners install their ponds (and rocks) and then run out and buy a bunch of adorable little 5" long koi. The koi grow.....fast. They produce mountains of fish waste, which all gets trapped in the rocks. But because the pond looks clean, the owner is lulled into a false sense of security and does not think that there is a thing wrong, until the fish start dying or the fins start rotting off. Then they do one of two thing....they learn where they went wrong and correct their mistakes, or they just buy new fish (which is unfortunatly what most people do). Matt...you are on the right track with your new pond. You certainly can install your bottom drain now and add the rest of the system later. But instead of using a pipe cap, install a 4" ball valve on the end of the line. The water can't be permitted to sit stagnant in the unused drain line for too long or it will start developing the dreaded hydrogen sulphide gas. Opening that valve every couple of weeks and allowing the water to flow out for a couple of minutes will prevent the problems. I am attaching a link to the Atlanta Koi Club's web site. They have an excellent pdf that explains a lot about how a koi pond works, water quality, stocking levels, how much biofiltration is needed and many other wonderful facts. Cindy

Hey guys - thanks for the comments! It's great to come online and see more interest and questions. But before we get to that, look who popped its head open on Monday: I wasn't expecting anything to be blooming this year - what a special surprise this was. Relatively tiny blossom, but beautifully intricate and elegant. jcjcjcx - Well, in my experiences with soil, it's been kind of 50/50. On the one hand, it starts plants off really well. But on the other side, it doesn't ever stay in its pot, its lighter and more prone to tipping (if using a small container), and if not tended can cause a great deal of rot. Here are a few of my experiences: I was experimenting with some different pond marginals in the 3rd year and a few of those included cannas. I potted them in a long container full of soil and a few pebbles so they would be some-what weighted down. A few nights later, the wind picked up and the first thing that got knocked over was that pot! All the soil coated the pond's bottom and the rocks clogged the main drain line. We had to blow it all out of the pipe using the reverse side of a shop-vac. The combination of big pebbles and muddy soil made a substantial clot. And it was months before the soil finally got cleaned up! A year later, i experimented with some lotus seeds. I had scarred the seeds in the appropriate way and had some really nice shoots developing from a few healthy seeds. I started them off in a rich soil mixture with abundant water and when it came time to move them to the pond, i left everything as is because i didn't want to shock the plant. They were doing great for a month and i even had an airborne leaf at one time! But then within a few days the plant yellowed and died almost like clockwork. At the time, i thought it was just the luck of the draw. But after pulling the pot out and examining the tuber, it was pretty apparent - the soil suffocated the plant. It turned anaerobic and the plant shriveled up. When soil becomes so saturated, no water can penetrate through it enough to deliver new nutrients. Later on, it came time to buy a lily so we headed down a couple cities (everything is right next to each other in Southern California, haha) and found a beautiful purple lily. 45.00 plus tax - not an easy investment for a non-working kid. But at the time, the beauty justified the bill. So we brought it home and enjoyed its blooms for the few days it had bloomed. And being the naive kid i was, i assumed that you should leave it in the pot it's been growing in (as not to shock it). Well, i knew within a week i was wrong. It yellowed up, and stopped sending new growth. And when i brought it out of the water to check out what was wrong, the whole thing 'shlopped' out of the container smelling like putrid death. The tuber was pretty mushy and the growing shoots off of the main shaft had almost been frozen in time - brown and tightly rolled up. This was a tough blow seeing how i had just paid $50.00 for the thing. Fast forward to today, i almost had the exact same problem from the exact same place! (funny huh?) I bought the lily two Sundays ago, with the intent of 'doing it right this time' and replanting in a clay mixture. I didn't have the materials to make it happen that day though, so i set the whole pot in the pond and waited for the next weekend (i thought a week wouldn't hurt). I finally got all my materials last Sunday so i went to work repotting all my lilies. I took my Star of Siam out (the one i got from that place) and within a few minutes, 3 of the 5 pads broke off! I looked to the base of the breakage and low and behold - the beginnings of rot! I had blamed my fish for one of the pads busting off earlier in the week - but it was a weakened plant instead! I immediately pulled all the soil out and washed the roots till they were spot clean. The soil itself was black and full of that ammonia smell and i could easily see why these plants weren't making it past a few weeks. Right now - 3 days later, my Star of Siam shows no signs of further rot damage and even has 3 (or more) healthy leaflets starting at the base. But what i don't understand is how the pond stores can have these robust lilies that look great at the shop, but croak in a new home... All conspiracies aside, soil has been nothing but trouble for me. So what did i do differently this time? Well, after reading up here on various posts, more specifically, the "Water Lilies" thread, i found a curious suggestion from a member to use regular clay cat litter for your plants instead of soil. It's pretty ingenious! It stays put when you drop it in the water, it'll be constantly aerated and water will always be able to move through it (since it's more like a tight gravel than a solid soil), and when it comes time to change the soil (if you even need to) you just pick up a new bag of litter and you're done! I bought a large bag of Johnny Cat Original litter from my feed store, 2 bags of Jobes tomato spikes from Lowes, 4 metal drip pans from my local auto place, and a few bags of black Mexican beach pebbles (to weigh down plants). Everything i've planted this time around seems to really enjoy it's new home. It finally feels i found the solution to all my lily woes! And who knew it would be kitty litter? naturelover2007 - The books state zone 9 as the lowest available growing zone, but I'm pretty sure you could easily overwinter it inside - its amazingly hardy and has given us endless green (not exaggerating!) Brenda - thanks for the facts! I always wondered what was with the aerial roots and it makes sense that they're shoots off of the mother plant. But it's fascinating how far those things can travel. I think i found one 6 feet away from the main plant interwoven into the border rocks. Dianne - It's always in those first months that you build a pond. You imagine that the hardest part is digging the hole and building the pond, but it's only half (even less than half) of the battle. It's great to hear that you didn't fill it in though! Do you have any pictures up in the gallery of your pond? I wish you luck with your waterfall addition - should add some beautiful relaxing sounds for your yard! Thanks for taking the time to reply! Thank you all for your kind words - as the pond matures this season (well, what's left of summer), I'll be sure to keep you informed. We just planted a black-stemmed bamboo screen to help enclose the pond in a more natural setting (instead of a pink block wall) - and i think i might experiment with some miniature Juniper plants in the stream beds (i saw someone do it, now i want to!) Thanks again fellow ponders! Mike.

Donnann, your Bee Balm garden sounds like heaven! and I am so sorry that naughty Woodchuck literally cleaned up his plate with your garden...I am sending much warm wishes for your Bee balm garden's speedy recovery...Yes, definitely get wire fencing for it. I would have loved to have seen your Bee Balm Garden.I am keeping my fingers crossed that Mr. Woodchuck will chomp on only the wild weeds instead, like crabgrass or nutsedge or those invasive tree shrubs! I recently saw Kristenflower's absolutely gorgeous rose/lavender heaven too at the gallery and was so impressed! Yours and hers are ideal bee gardens just like Celestialrose. I need to grow much more bee balm because I found out that my dwarf bee balm is not as "invasive" as I had hoped, LOL, no thanks to my crappy soil. I actually planted my bee balm away from my roses in a bare 3 by 3 area. My bee-attracting plants are too young, too few to really attract many bees so next time I have to amp the collection and not! deadhead my beebalm, hoping the seeds will scatter My dad on the other hand has 3 crabapple trees, a persimmon tree, a dwarf apple tree, his yard is completely overrun with wild honeysuckle bushes, lilacs, a forest of hollyhocks and sweet peas(which the bumblebees used to love before they died, one flowering redbud tree, winterberry, azaleas, gardenias, jasmine, 3 crazy rosebushes that are like 8' tall because he never prunes them, 1 rootstock Dr. Huey, all these bee and bird attracting plants which I am so jealous about...But! he does not have bee balm... I think he can certainly add this to his collection...Donna, LOL! I think you will be "enabling" him; the neighbors already think he's got enough of a jungle...Also genes run in the family, hahahaha! I tried to keep as tidy of a garden as I could, but my garden still looks like a jungle because I planted like 50! overly tall gladiolus and now I want to grab some of my Dads overly tall hollyhocks as well! Anyway, I cant wait to see your bee balm garden recover and flourish once again. Hugs! Greenhaven alas I have just a handful of those native beesbut am grateful that at least I have those few. Your post reminded me, do you remember that "I am so excited thread" I wrote? The wonderful cute Mr. Bumblebee that used to visit my garden in May did not survive it seemsIn Mid-June it disappeared after my next door neighbor hired a professional pesticide company to spray the foundations of their home. Perhaps it too was Sevin? It was not until an entire month and a half passed that my Dads bees disappeared... (he and I live in completely separate neighborhoods and bees only have that 3 mi. radius anyways) So as you can see I feel why I feel so guilty. Perhaps if I had mentioned this to my Dad, who knows something could have been prevented? Again, you may be right in that the wild bees are hardier in comparison. They have shorter life spans and dont have communal hives, and that is why they have survived You see if you do the research and look up native bees youll discover thisThey dont have the hives and therefore, they dont have the communal death that the honeybees experience when they are exposed to Sevin. Because wild bees have so many tiny individual nests, each is independent of each other ... Not so with honeybees. Once their hive is contaminated, their entire hive is destroyed, thousands are gone. But to be honest I will always love the honeybee and bumblebees more... There's just something so special about their fuzziness that I love!

"This morning I found a toad with three of his limbs bitten off." Its called nature....things are harsh in nature. Food chain. And of course you should try to not visit certain countries where humans thy cut off all four frog legs for food and leave rest of it to die. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Is_frog_delicacy_on_its_last_legs.html?cid=1301504