jclimber, I've have a setup very similar to what you are talking about though my pond is only half the size, still large for an ornamental pond with goldfish. I have a Savio Skimmer with two pumps, one goes to a rapids effect at a small, small stream that feeds in under the biofilter fall, and, the other one pumps into the biofilter. I also have an upper pool and a lower pool separated by a wide but short water fall. The Savio Skimmer (full size) is located at the other end of the lower pool from the waterfall. My two magdrive pumps work fine. Laguna brand 3900 waterfall pumps. That all said, I would take ccoombs advice, no doubt. The number one problem with my pond is keeping the detritus and other junk off the bottom. In fact, you never can keep it off the bottom. The detritus is so fine that you only stir-it up if you get in to clean the pond. So my advice would be to go with the bottom drain setup but still use a skimmer box for the top floating stuff. Thanks for the btm drn link, ccoombs; I hadn't seen that... and thanks for the explanation of the bottom drain (not for draining, necessarily) because when I first heard about BDs that what I thought for sometime! I like the suggestions for saving money. If you can afford the time, better to make your own... esp. underlayment; I actually think old carpet (go dumpster diving at a carpet store) is superior to the underlayments I've laid hands on. Here's another suggestion: I'd get the rock out. It would be one thing if they were in the water atop the liner, but rolling liner up over them is just taking up space. Plus, you could use those big ones to help landscape at the edge. So it occurred to me when you talked about getting an electrician to bring a circuit out to the pond that this electrician is going to have to pay someone to trench. Most places are under the National Electric Code and that means burying the cable 30" or more... they're going to want to use a trencher. If you're going to have to get a trencher in for that you could save by getting a mini-excavator (rental from any tool/equip rental shop) and have it equipped with multiple bucket sizes... most come with options. get a slender bucket for the trench work, wider bucket for the rock. If an excavator can't lift the rock it should be able to beat on it enough to crack it smaller and scoop it out... of course, you could just pay someone to remove the large rocks. Whatever you decide make sure you have 'em mark the area for underground utilities. I really like your setup though. You never did say if you planned to have fish, what kind? Is that a german sheppard!? He/She will love the pond!

Having had a natural clay pond for over three years now, I must beg to differ with some of the above responses. It is very natural. Yes, the water level goes up and down but the critters move right along with it and it never ever dries completely up partly because I can top it off the same way each of you can top off yours when they lose water by evaporation or other means. I have no liner cheapo or otherwise, pinned in or otherwise (it would only collapse eventually anyway because of the shifting clay). The pond is clear and I can see all the way to the bottom on any given day. There are snails, frogs, fish along with other abundant wildlife that visit the pond. I don't think anyone should be discouraged from digging in clay and I think calling them victims is very unnecessary. Liners haven't been around forever but ponds sure have. If any "victims" have any questions about natural clay ponds, feel free to email me privately. It can be done and done successfully and beautifully.

Not familiar w/ "everdry". As long as the water quality is good don't see why it wouldn't work. Is the water temp cool? If so there are some interesting things you could try, if you're brave. 65 gallons is big. I would fill the bottom w/ inert material to about 18" to 20" from the top, then you want to use a 50/50 mix of peat and sand, NO SOIL. Bogs are nutrient poor acidic enviornments. This would be a typical pitcher plant, flytrap, sundew type bog. Lots of things can be grown in this ecosystem including native orchids etc. I'm sure others will fill you in.

Thx kindly unfortunately for me it takes a lot of words at times to really explain well. Best then be entertaining. Was it worth it? ________ Current 2017 Winter Spring yard plan We currently have an nice range of hydrangea getting underway in the yard as well as some being installed this winter through esrly spring. This is Hydrangea macrophylla 'Mathlida Gutches' with acid pH soil with Aluminum Sulphate added a few years prior. Electric Blue Division of same bush in new yard in the process of the root ball adapting to the new pH enviroment. Obviously there are local pH range variations working here. Over time it will stabilize to purple or pink, unless I act on it. Liking the effect I added dolomite lime to one side of tbe bush and Aluminum Sulphate to the other. Summer Yard Plan I'm going to add some serious Alocasia, Colocasia, Banana, Giant Canna and Giant Ferns this year. Many are hardy here or might be hardy enough and possibly survive a wet long winter too. That is if tricked just right. Others will need to be over wintered inside, until I have expanded enough stock to test for more effective outdoor methods. We have sodium vapor and T55 lights on timer and gas heater installed in an insulated side shed also an unheated 40 F garage holding Brugmansia planters, now in suspended animation. To have success as a zone shifter, one has to know why a (semi)tropical didn't work outside. Was the actual cause cold hardiness, drainage, rotting, or slugs or other pests eating roots and bulbs? Mulch type, tarping, soil amendments, correct bottom drainage, and/or correct pH* could make a huge difference on meeting challenges. I'm getting a little electronic temperature datalogger to help save me on making repeated measurement trips. For a highly desired buried rootstock survival outdoors, one could even lay a 20watt seedling heatmat over the crown area, dry mulch, and cover with a waterproof tarp (e.g., for a Colocasia 'Thailand Giant'). With our 50-ish F ground temp below and an 85 F small zone above, it just might work. 100 watts / winter for protecting 5 prize tropical plants zone would be much more cost effective, and last longer, than a tropical vacation. * pH could effect root health or function, fertilzer loading or type needed and possibly microbe aggression or pest range too. I've used so much commercial compost in my new yard that I better watch plants here liking either an acid pH or drier soil. I know this for sure because most of my purple to blue hydrangeas shifted to pink and red and I can also see that my ammended soil for hydrangeas stay more moist than before. Soil ammendments found here to shift hydrangea color and/or a pH test kit can teach me how to pH adjust here.. My soil is too dry, clay filled and rocky in fact to not add compost. My yard is not hardpan, having a solid clay layer, but is more of a glacial till. It has small to large rocks stopping most digging tools quickly. Having not pre-tested and already moved here, I must use an iron rod for initial digging. Then I screen out excess rock and add compost back, 20 to 50%, to make decent soil. I dig "root pits" and "bog pits (plastic lined) mixing the ammendents needed with my screened soil as I go. i dig a pit as wide and deep enough needed to support an adult plant size. My soil structure thus permits me to ammend, on a plant by plant basis, for that plants needs. For hydrangea, I can seperately adjust pH differently for side by side plants to display different colors. I can even try making a single hydrangea a bicolor red/blue or a have a mixed blue, pink and purple color range. The range is created with focused line addition of ammendmenrs lightly mixed into the soil, above the root ball. If concerned about eventual pH blending yielding a single color try a below ground water drip diverter(s) such as plastic edging strip(s). These effects work only becuase plants roots feed more verically than horizontally through the plant with major root zones feeding primarily above. Yes plants are more simply wired than our brain body connections. Or gardening success would be likely be thought to due to insightful plant psychology rather than plant physiology ... except for that Elf riden Butterfly Orchid that I'm growing under lights. Yes 'Hildos' rides again! Psychopsis Mendenhall 'Hildos' FCC/AOS Hildos' 'Papilio' clan was first seen by Westerners waving to them in the wind, while clinging onto trees in Trinidad and Tobago. Hildos' direct ancestor was promptly captured and brought back to England in the early1800s, where the seated Elf Rider likely magically initiated the craze for orchid collecting in Europe. An award was granted the butterfly in 1825. Interestingly, most viewing this stunning sight still only have seen the Butterfly and not Jockey rider. With plants you sometimes need to look closer to truely understand them.