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erasmus_gw

Recommendations for shrubbiest, most vigorous hybrid teas

erasmus_gw
11 years ago

I like hybrid teas for their rebloom, big blooms, and some of them for the way they grow. Frederic Mistral for example is like a small tree here..an enormous, branchy thing very far removed from the bloom-on-a-stick version of ht's. Last year I bought Folklore, and it too looks like it's going to be a wonderful, strong growing, branchy plant. Others that are looking promising are Buxom Beauty and Gruss an Coburg. I like the growth habit of the grandiflora, Cherry Parfait.
What are your favorite ht's that make great plants, especially own-root ?

Comments (55)

  • kittymoonbeam
    11 years ago

    I forgot Pink Parfait which is always blooming and full of leaves through not as tall as the ones I mentioned above. It has no visible canes really just masses of leaves and flowers. The flowers open very fast and then stay flat which some people don't like but I don't mind because I grow it for the buds and just opening flowers which I think are perfect looking. Anyway the plant makes them so fast that if you don't like the older flowers cut them off and new ones are there to replace them right away. From a distance its a big mass of color all season.

  • dublinbay z6 (KS)
    11 years ago

    I don't think Peter Mayle fits your criteria. Its blooms are big and fat (and gorgeous), but the plant itself is not what I would call "bushy." I have three of them and they are kind of skinny, vertical plants--but taller than most of my other HTs, although not as tall as Elina (which definitely is big and bushy).

    My Elle is quite bushy, but not very tall.

    Hope that helps.

    Kate

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  • erasmus_gw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for these recommendations and link to the previous thread about this. I searched for " vigorous hybrid teas" and
    " favorite hybrid teas" and don't know why I didn't try " shrubby hybrid teas." I looked up all the ones mentioned that I don't already grow and have written down my favorites in my rose notebook. Some of the roses mentioned I already grow but they are not vigorous in my garden! I think due to location, root competition, and shade. Others do well, like Earth Song. I have a few stout climbers that behave like shrubby ht's too, such as Westerland, Compassion, and Autumn Sunset. Diane, your picture of Ascot is lovely, with purple shadings I hadn't seen before. Almost ordered that one from Palatine this fall. Elina sounds like a great one also.

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    Perfume Delight is a vigorous rose, great bloomer; it's very colorful with a delightful fragrance.

    {{gwi:216010}}

  • jaspermplants
    11 years ago

    I'm completely out of your zone but I love Perfume Delight too. I bought her on an impulse, a cheap Home Dept or Lowe's purchase lasta year and she has been one of the healthiest, most floriferous (sp?) HT roses for me. I even planted a second one this year. Unusual for me as I am an OGR fanatic.

  • sherryocala
    11 years ago

    Believe it or not, I have acquired a few HT's recently, feeling that "I've only one gardening life to live, let me live it with fragrance & huge blooms!" So when RU had a sale last summer, I got a few that are said to be very disease resistant. They're still tiny, but Naga Belle is starting out very bushy, more floribunda-like and not vertical. It's not quite a foot tall but almost 2' wide.

    I've just gotten these. If anyone wants to comment on them as to shape, vigor and health, I'd really appreciate it.

    Pope John Paul II
    Bride's Dream
    Curly Pink
    Stephen's Big Purple
    Heirloom (bought as a body bag at Aldi)

    I think I'm going to run over to Aldi again. The bug had bitten me. :))

    I don't know if it's available in commerce, but Iridescent Pink is starting out VERY vigorous and bushy.

    Sherry

    Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

  • nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
    11 years ago

    I have two Stephen's Big Purple Roses, and they are fairly vigorous, but have the classic upright, bare ankles HT shape. I like the blooms, but they are not purple. They are more a neon magenta, which because of their position in the far back yard, makes this color more desirable (I can see them more easily from the house). The blooms have a lovely scent and last fairly well in the vase, but there aren't enough of them. My BPs are on multiflora which is a disadvantage, I think, with our alkaline soil. I just got an Heirloom last year, a cheap one in a pot from a chain store. It was in nice condition and took right off growing. I love the color and shape of the blooms. Unfortunately, the blooms really shrivel and dry up quickly in our dry, hot summers. Hope this helps. Diane

  • sherryocala
    11 years ago

    Thanks, Diane. I'm glad BP is more upright since I have him in a fairly shallow bed. I really go for the bold magentas (don't know about neon though - ha!). I was in Walmart today, trolling. There was an unnamed sulfur yellow HT/floribunda. Now THAT's the color I can't take in MY pastel garden although I did pick up some bright yellow dahlia bulbs. Yay!! Those dahlias did so well last year, blooming heavy from late spring through the end of October and then fewer into December on big plants. LeBaron was its name, and they had him today. Very deep magenta/purple. Very exciting!

    Sherry

    Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

  • susan4952
    11 years ago

    Ispahan, Lemon Spice is one of my favorite roses..EVER. Although it is not terribly hardy in Chicago, it is worth every bit of effort. A beautiful, graceful, pale yellow with a fragrance that is unmatched. The blooms are HT like as opposed to the english style. SOmetimes there is a slight hint of blush pink in them. Mine is about 3 ft tall during peak months. On the slender side, in prime real estate. Wish I had a picture. A beautiful rose.

  • susan4952
    11 years ago

    Oh...these pictures are out of this world!

  • seil zone 6b MI
    11 years ago

    A nice new one that grows bushy for me is Dick Clark. Really good branching for lots of blooms!

  • TNY78
    11 years ago

    Linda, I just looked down my HMF list of HT's and of about 50, there's only a handful that I would reccommend (and of those, most don't have the traditional HT bloom). But, here are my favorites :)

    Ascot
    Easy Does It (EXCELLENT!!! although, I didn't realize it was an HT)
    Gruss an Aachen
    Mon Petit Chou (Excellent rose!)
    Over the Moon
    Red Headed Stranger

    ~Tammy

  • erasmus_gw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I usually think of Bucks as a class unto themselves, although some are officially ht's. Most of my Bucks are pretty shrubby. I am not really looking for plants that grow as large as Frederic Mistral, because I don't have the room. A plant can be vigorous without being huge. I have a few own-root ht's in pots that I don't know the growth habits of yet, if anyone can comment on these:

    Halloween
    Sweet Afton
    Velvet Fragrance just planted
    Pink Princess
    Sweet Surrender
    Alec's Red

    I have a vigorous Gardens of the World in a pot, and one in the ground. The one in the ground is not doing as well as the one in the pot, which has strong growth. Tammy,
    I like Mon Petit Chou and Over the Moon. I think MPC means " my little cabbage". Are blooms small? I have a Stephen's Big Purple in a pot but so far it hasn't grown or bloomed as much as some others.

  • harmonyp
    11 years ago

    Blueberry Hill
    {{gwi:216012}}

    Just Joey
    {{gwi:216014}}
    {{gwi:216017}}

    Miss All American Beauty
    {{gwi:216020}}

    Plus seconds on: Dick Clark and Cherry Parfait

  • TNY78
    11 years ago

    I have my Over the Moon potted because its on Dr. Huey and won't do well in the ground here, but its a healthy rose, and reblooms well.

    Mon Petit Chou actually has VERY large blooms (think Paul Neyron size). Its been healthy and its flushes come very close together, which is surprising because it gets partially shaded by my Boule de Neige (which I didn't realize was going to grow to be a monster!). Its "little cabbage" name is definitly not correct in terms of size, but it does have cabbage shaped blooms.

    Tammy

  • ken-n.ga.mts
    11 years ago

    If you like Folklore, You should like Let Freedom Ring, Gold Medal, Moonstone, Gemini, Elina, Louise Estes, Snuffy, Stainless Steel. These are all in my garden and are big healthy, heavy bloomers. Peace and Chicago Peace are great garden rose's if allowed to grow and not chopped down every year. They both HATE to be pruned heavy. They make a bush like Elina if allowed to grow. You're in the same zone as me so these roses should do great for you also. Have fun trying to pick just a few :)

  • Krista_5NY
    11 years ago

    Sweet Afon is 2 feet tall in my garden setting, and not wide growing, but in a warmer zone it should grow larger.

    Sweet Surrender is relativly new to the garden, so I'm not sure as to how tall it will grow... sure does have wonderful fragrance!

    Jadis is a winner for me, beautiful blooms and the fragrance is wonderful.

  • canadian_rose
    11 years ago

    Last summer I got Royal Kate (it's in the garage right now). I'm not sure how tall it will get - but it has the perfect bush form with tons of flowers. Lovely, lovely rose bush. I would show you a picture, but I didn't save my photos, and my computer died - so I lost all of my photos.

    Carol

  • susan4952
    11 years ago

    Omg, Harmony, your Just Joey is out of this world. Planted two last spring and they are just dead.

  • erasmus_gw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Right, Ken, I can only pick a few since I ran out of room several years ago. However I have sp'd a lot of unsatisfactory plants this fall and winter to make some room. I had three Knockouts that were nice big plants but I wanted their real estate. I have not established good own-root plants of Peace or Chicago Peace. Are yours own-root?

    Wow, Harmony..those are great whole plant pictures. Are those grafted or own-root?

    Jadis sounds like a great rose and gets a lot of high ratings on hmf. I couldn't find Royal Kate on hmf.

    Tammy, how would you say Mon Petit Chou compares to your St. Elisabeth of Hungary?

    Here are some ht's I like that branch and do well but are not exactly shrubs:
    Camelot
    Sonia ( it was great, why did I sp it long ago? Thought I didn't like the color)
    Oklahoma does well even in a lot of shade
    Heirloom a Walmart wonder
    Granada this one is almost a shrub
    Fragrant Cloud
    Mme Abel Chatenay pretty branchy
    Traviata very vigorous

    Used to have Miss All American Beauty..great plant, but ended up getting a lot of botrytis. Love Just Joey but it hasn't done well here. Am trying to fix my shade problem this fall/winter...have been limbing up some big trees and thinning others.

    Sometimes it seems to me that an own-root rose can balk if planted in the ground too early. Sometimes I dig up a balker, grow it on in progressively bigger pots awhile and then it has the momentum to be vigorous in the ground. Others do ok planted in the ground while small.

  • ken-n.ga.mts
    11 years ago

    All of my HT's are grafted on Dr Huey or Fortuniana. Both C. Peace and Peace are on Dr Huey. Big as a horse in 2 yrs. If you want own root, Heirloom Roses carries both. Move them into 1 gall pots and then into 3 gal. pots and make SURE they have a good root system before putting them into the ground. All of my own root plants are OGR's and 1/2 my Austins'. They are doing great. A lot of times HT's have a hard time own their own roots. Take forever to make it to a good size bush. Me, I want to see a bush within a couple of years that I can enjoy for the next 40+ years. I'm 60ish and can get a little impatient if I don't have a good bush within 3 yrs :)

  • TNY78
    11 years ago

    I like my Mon Petit Chou much better than St. Elisabeth. When St. Elisabeth blooms, its out of this world! My one main complaint about her is that she hasn't been very vigorous. She's been in the ground almost three seasons and has barely even established herself (I'm trying to be patient since she's talking up prime garden real estate!). Mon Petit Chou was planted early last spring and has just gone wild! One thing to keep in mind about these two, St. Elisabeth was purchased as an ownroot band, and Mon Petit was a bareroot grafted onto multiflora, so it has a good headstart in terms of size to begin with. I'm hopng this season St. Elisabeth finally takes off ...and I'll be more than happy to share some cuttings! :)

    Tammy

    Tammy

  • sherryocala
    11 years ago

    Oh, Erasmus, I feel like we're sisters because you also have Mme Abel Chatenay. She's pretty rare, I think. I hope you does as well for you as she does for me. I love her!

    And Harmonyp, your roses are SO gorgeous. They do have very pleasing shapes.

    Ken-n, pardon my ignorance, but how do you just let a HT grow? Minor deadheading only? No pruning?

    Sherry

    Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

  • harmonyp
    11 years ago

    Erasmus - they are grafted on Dr. Huey.

  • erasmus_gw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Sherry, Carla gave me her large Mme. Abel plant when she moved. She lives in a nearby town. I planted Mme Abel in a 5 gallon pot where she rooted through the pot. Will plant in the ground before spring, but even in the pot it's been a nice plant and good bloomer.

    Am wondering if you have found plants grafted onto multiflora unsatisfactory, Ken. I agree that some plants do better grafted, but there are some hybrid teas that are vigorous own-root and those are the ones I'm most interested in. Folklore has taken off own-root and Buxom Beauty appears to do well own-root also. I don't know why it is that building up a good root system in a pot works better than letting it do that in the ground. Somewhere I read that the heat in a black plastic pot helps grow roots faster. My friend, Dickie ( budeye here), sometimes sinks a potted plant in the ground. I am guessing he cuts the bottoms of the pots out. Not sure why that is advantageous..I guess you'd get the best of both worlds..some protection from root competition but freedom to expand also. Roses Unlimited certainly offers a lot of ht's own-root and I think they're convinced that most of them can do well that way.

    Tammy, thanks for the offer of cuttings of St. Elisabeth. I did a patent search on Mon Petit Chou and unfortunately it's patented, though that's not showing up on hmf. I think St. Elis. is unpatented. I hope your plant takes off this spring, but I'm finding that vigor is not always immediately evident. Some of my non-vigorous plants are much better at Dickie's house for example..haha. I think my perennials act like weeds.

  • ken-n.ga.mts
    11 years ago

    All my new roses are left to just grow the first year. Just dead head. Second year I let them grow but start shaping the bush. Third year and on I just keep the bush shaped the way I want it. In my zone I don't hard prune anything. Erasmus-----I can't believe I didn't mention Roses Unlimited. They have roses there that you can't find ANYWHERE else. I know I'll be making a quick trip down there in a few weeks. I need a couple of OGR's, a few Florabunda's and a David Austin or two. I hope I can keep it under 10 bush's (yeah, right).

  • zjw727
    10 years ago

    I can't heap enough praise on 'Gruss an Coburg"...I absolutely love it! I got it as a band from VIntage Gardens, and it arrived last November with several buds on it...all of which opened. I've kept it in a pot, on my covered patio all winter, and its currently shooting up all kinds of new growth- I really can't wait to see what it does in a few months time! The fragrance is really incredible, with such lovely subtle coloring! I think Vintage still has bands available. GET IT!!!

  • roseseek
    10 years ago

    If you can still find it, Rina Hugo fit that bill here quite well. Not a lot of fragrance, but big, robust, bushy, leafy, healthy with long, strong stems and huge, long lasting flowers. A friend in Santa Clarita bought an Arena bare root and it exploded into a six by six foot mound of healthy canes and foliage, liberally sprinkled with those vibrant buds and flowers. Definitely one I would plant here if I had the room! Kim

    Here is a link that might be useful: Rina Hugo

  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    From the list of Eramus' roses below, which one is most vigorous as own-root? A friend in Texas had Halloween, it smelled amazing but died through her zone 8 winter. Thanks for any info. on below plus other vigorous own-roots hybrid teas.

    Halloween
    Sweet Afton
    Velvet Fragrance just planted
    Pink Princess
    Sweet Surrender
    Alec's Red

  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    2 years ago

    My favorite big, healthy, and fragrant hybrid tea rose is Memorial Day.

    I love those pinky lavender big blousy blooms.



  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago

    Diane: thank you for mentioning the size, I need TALL roses, the bunnies are standing on their legs reaching up to eat the lower leaves of shorter roses.

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 years ago

    Oh, to garden in zone 7!! Diane, my tall skinny RRoyale is short and skinny. She will never be bushy, but she will probably be tall again. Winter took most of her. WBYonder is also very narrow. ALuise is hanging on for dear life. If I can ever get AL looking right, I will feel I have reached rose nirvana. I may be insane, but I want to try Ascot next year.

    Houzz is up to it again. They're making this impossible.

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 years ago

    Straw, the bunnies are destructive and maddening, but that sounds adorable.

  • Diane Brakefield
    2 years ago

    Flowers, shame. It does not sound adorable. Actually, I've never had a bunny problem, and when we had bunnies, they were pygmy crosses and maybe even pygmies. They were very small. I know that Washington and Idaho are one of the few areas to have these rabbits. Several years ago, some foxes moved in and wiped them out. Then the foxes moved on, blasted varmints. I don't know how the bunnies survived the coyotes and badgers, though, but not the foxes. I think you grow fabulous roses in a greater variety than I do. You have already reached rose nirvana. And remember our awful heat. It's still around here--102F today; 105F tomorrow. You don't want that. Could you winter protect Ascot? I've always thought it was a very cold hardy rose. It came through our terrible winter of 2016-17 just fine. We had some zone 5 temps that year, plus the winter hung on forever. Diane

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Diane, we had bunnies only one year, and never any damage to the roses. They were living under the little barn, then they were gone. Good thing they weren't the cute pygmies. I might have fed them. We rarely see foxes and coyotes. Coyotes were a daily and especially, nightly, occurrence when we lived in the hills in CA. I don't miss that!

    You are too nice about my roses. This year is heartbreaking. You are experiencing the same blow torch heat in Boise, in addition to the unhealthy air quality from the fires. My CA kids didn't think the air quality was bad since they have fire season every year. We are 100˚, then will be low 90s for a couple days, then back up. You can keep the extra degrees over there!

    If I get Ascot, he will have to be tough. I am a heartless, lazy gardener. They have to make it on their own, or they're outta here. The most I will do is shovel the compost up a little higher on new ones the first winter or two. The year I tried winter protecting was disastrous. All it did was encourage canker. I remember the 2016-17 winter. Fingers crossed for a late fall, short winter and early 2022 spring. We can dream.

  • Diane Brakefield
    2 years ago

    I would really like a late fall. Last year, the fall was early, the spring cold and windy, and on June 9, spring was over. I feel like waiting all those months, all the work, and all the money was for a load of nothing. August and September could make up for it, and maybe October. Diane

  • rosecanadian
    2 years ago

    Kristine - I agree about Memorial Day!! And your pic is wonderfully beautiful!!


    Diane - GASP.....your AL always makes me SWOON!! :)


    Straw - if you want tall roses...Souer Emanuelle is really tall for me. It was new last year...and this year is recovering from problems...but it's tall and the roses smell fabulous!

  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago

    Thank you, Carol !!

  • rosecanadian
    2 years ago

    You're welcome! <3

  • Nippstress Nebraska z5
    2 years ago

    Straw I've grown all the roses you listed in your post two days ago except Pink Princess. I was unsuccessful in overwintering any of them except Velvet Fragrance. That one is own root and about 8 years old but short for me and not very bushy. With your fertilizer program and snow cover it would probably be fine for you. The next most likely is probably Alec's Red, but without overwintering I can't say definitely.

    Cynthia

  • flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
    2 years ago

    Peach Swirl is a shrubby and vigorous HT. She is new for me, and I'm already taking her for granted. Bought last year as a potted rose from Lowes, she is super healthy with big, glossy leaves and blooms almost non stop. She has a full, rounded shape and the blooms are big and last a long time on the bush.

  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Thank you, Cynthia, Velvet Fragrance is on my wish-list since Firefighter died 3 times as own-root in my garden.

    Andrea (flowers): Thanks for the info. on Peach Swirl with glossy leaves. Glossy leaves can take my heavy clay well.

    Dee-lish is vigorous hybrid tea as 7th-year-own-root, pic. taken this June at 3' x 2.5' wide:


    Sweet Mademoiselle is twice more vigorous than Dee-lish and twice bigger, it's a 3rd-year-own-root at 5' tall x 4' wide. Pic. taken this July 24 in hot temp. near 90 F in 4 hrs. of sun. Sweet M. blooms fry in hot temp., thus best in partial shade:



    Princess Charlene de Monaco is vigorous but doesn't get up to 40+ blooms like the above despite being in full-sun. It's a 4th-year-own-root, gets tall at least 4' x 2.5' wide. All 3 are very healthy, never see diseases in my heavy alkaline clay. Will post bush-shot of Moonlight Romantica later once it blooms as 1st-year-own-root, the leaves are similar to PcdM.


  • rosecanadian
    2 years ago

    Flowers - I would buy Peach Swirl in a heartbeat!! :)


    Straw - we both belong to the "I killed Firefighter 3 times." group. LOL Man oh man, that is a sublime Dee-Lish bush!!! I've never seen one that fabulous!! Way to go! And your PCdM has soooo many buds!! Big, fat, healthy buds!! And your leaves are perfection!! :)

  • Diane Brakefield
    2 years ago

    Straw, your Dee-lish is so lush and gorgeous. I love both the blooms and the nice shape she has. I don't love the name though. I'll bet there is another prettier name to match the rose if I check HMF, which I was going to do anyway. I grow a rose called Bernstein-Rose that has the glossiest leaves of any rose I grow-just observed them because you have mentioned glossy leaves. I've grown three B-R plants since about 2007, and they're just wonderful little roses, naturally small. They are amber colored in cooler weather and in heat often lighten to Julia Child yellow. They're a Tantau rose and hard to get, and I've noticed this rose was used as a parent in hybridization of other roses a number of times.


    Flowers, Peach Swirl sounds too good to be true, and I've read nothing but good things about her. Another rose I should be growing but have no space for, along with DeeLish.


    Carol, what happened to Firefighter? Poor rose, he belongs to an exclusive group. Isn't Straw's Dee-lish great? Diane

  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Diane: Thanks for the info. of Bernstein-rose's glossy foliage .. glossy foliage is what I want for my heavy clay (super-high in magnesium). Magnesium helps with potassium uptake which helps with glossy foliage.

    Carol and I belong to the "I-killed-Firefighter-3-times" club. We are repented ex-assassins who post to prevent others from killing innocent roses. Carol is a classier killer than me, at least she killed them out of kindness .. I killed roses out of my curiosity and the need to experiment. So I kill roses first before my zone 5a winter kill them. LOL.

  • rosecanadian
    2 years ago

    Diane - well, one year it died in the GGDO. Another year it just never grew. And I can't remember about the other one. I'll have to admire Firefighter that others post. :)


    Straw - Killed them out of kindness?...nope...stupidity. LOL

  • nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
    2 years ago

    Ooh, ooh, I'm in the "killed Firefighter 3 times" club too! Mine simply failed to overwinter, both own root and grafted. The last time was in a protected spot but own root, so I might end up trying it one more time in that area grafted. Of course if you can't pull him through under your monitored conditions and careful tending, I should probably not try with my haphazard approach.

    Cynthia

  • rosecanadian
    2 years ago

    Cynthia - we'll have to create a special club handshake LOL.

  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago

    Cynthia: you are my savior many times !! THANK YOU. In June you saved me from killing Firefighter the 4th time. Thanks to you, I took that off from my buy-list, and Roses Unlimited gave me Pretty Lady Rose instead (bunnies killed that along with acidic grass clippings in 2020).

    I thought about buying Firefighter as grafted since I killed the own-root 3 times, then thanks to your post, I won't attempt it as grafted. Here's how I killed Firefighter as own-root 3 times:

    1) 2014 tree-root invaded the 3rd-year own-root Firefighter. I should had moved it, but left it there, so it died when cane-borers took over due to lack of calcium (trees steal lots of calcium and water).

    2) Bought 2nd gallon-size Firefighter. Since it's low-thorn waterhog, I experimented planting it next to a rainspout. It died from freezing rain in winter.

    3) Bought 3rd band-size Firefighter. I don't trust my zone 5a winter, so I potted it inside my unheated garage. In Feb. the temp. inside my garage was freezing single-digit. My refrigerator broke down, and I was busy storing food inside the garage and I forgot to cover Firefighter with a thermal blanket.