Chemical Fertilizers - Do they Affect Long Term Health of Roses?
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Why specifically do organic gardeners avoid chemical fertilizers
Comments (63)A lot of interesting info here, and obviously plenty of room for debate. I don't have near the knowledge many of you do but I can share my personnel experience as a hobbyist gardner. For several decades I have refused to use pesticides, just basically not liking the idea of using poisons. Knowing that a healthy plant is more successful in fighting disease and pests I would use chemical fertilizers to help keep my plants healthy. Well unfortunately, or maybe fortunately I was forced into early retirement and the last couple of years I have had a lot more time for hobby stuff. I started composting, having readily available lots of leaf and green matter in the yard. Then I started learning more about soil biology by poking around the web (that's how I found this place). So I decided to up the game and go 100% organic, relying only on my compost, and compost teas. My plants were easily just as if not more healthy than previous years, but the thing I noticed most was it seemed I had more beneficial insects in the garden. A couple of years I tried to introduce lady bugs for the occasional aphid problem. They would just fly away never to be seen again. This year no aphids but I kept seeing the random ladybug. Additionally I have found it hugely satisfying and feel a more complete cycle between my garden and my table. I am increasing my knowledge and experience of composting, and feel my compost is becoming better with every batch by adding simple things such as alfalfa and seaweed (always take my pack when I visit the ocean). Having a microscope I have also been able to see for myself the change and increase of microbial life in my soil and assume that will lead to a more healthy relationship between plant and soil. Now I have to find someone to give my leftover chemical ferts to.....See Morechemically fertilized grass clippings
Comments (15)My comments are in bold italic. My conclusion from this 1976 study is that 16% of soil microbes are completely wiped out by even small doses of these herbicides. These get kind of technical... http://www.springerlink.com/content/ng082l7058813182/ Influence of four herbicides on the algal flora of a prairie soil D. R. Cullimore1 and A. E. McCann1 (1) Department of Biology, University of Regina, S4S OA2 Saskatchewan, Canada Received: 11 May 1976 Summary Four herbicides (2,4-D, trifluralin, MCPA and TCA) were applied at two concentration levels to isolated cores of a grassland loam soil. After herbicide contact times of 1, 5, and 20 days, samples were taken and the algal population estimated both quantitatively and qualitatively using two selective mineral salts media. Thirty-one genera of algae were identified as occurring in the soil. Of these, Chlamydomonas, Chlorococcum, Hormidium, Palmella, and Ulothrix proved to be so sensitive to the four herbicides that they were rarely isolated from the cores after treatment. Other algal genera were found to be less sensitive, and the theoretical percentile sensitivity of fifteen genera was calculated. Chlorella, Lyngbya, Nostoc, and Hantzschia were found to be the most resistant algae, having percentile sensitivity to all four herbicides of less than 50%. Some algal genera varied in their sensitivity to each of the herbicides. Scytonema was sensitive to all of the herbicides except 2,4-D, while Tolypothrix showed a greater tolerance to MCPA. In the top cm of the soil, the reduction in cell numbers experienced by many algal genera after herbicide treatment was offset by an increase in the population of Chlorella. Stichococcus, Oscillatoria, and Spongiochloris all exhibited the ability to recover rapidly after a reduction in cell numbers resulting from the application of one of the herbicides. An overall reduction in cell numbers was noted for the algae growing preferentially on a nitrogen-free medium (i.e. potential nitrogen-fixers). re]19760511 Here's a 2005 study that showed similar results but not quantified... http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-83582005000400017&script=sci_abstract SANTOS, J.B., JAKELAITIS, A., SILVA, A.A. et al. Microbial activity in soil after herbicide application under no-tillage and conventional planting systems. Planta daninha, Oct./Dec. 2005, vol.23, no.4, p.683-691. ISSN 0100-8358. This study evaluated the effect of the herbicides fluazifop-p-butyl and fomesafen in five concentrations (0.0; 1.05; 2.10; 4.20 and 8.40 g g-1) and their mixture (Robust®) on microbial activity in soil submitted to no-tillage system (NTS) and conventional planting system (CPS). Samples in Erlenmeyer of 250 mL were treated with herbicide and wetted to field capacity. After every four days, microbial respiration was quantified through CO2 left by the soil. Metabolic quotient (qCO2) and carbon of microbial biomass (CMB) were determined 20 days after incubation. Under NTS, microbial activity increased with fluazifop-p-butyl and decreased with up to 4.20 µg g-1 of fomesafen. Herbicide effect on soil microbial respiration and CMB under CPS was below that observed under NTS.CMB increased with the increase of fluazifop-p-butyl concentration and decrease of fomesafen concentration. The mixture (Robust®) did not influence CMB under NTS, but it was reduced under CPS in higher concentrations. Under NTS, qCO2 increased with the herbicide concentrations, without, however, varying between them. Under CPS, herbicide mixture provided a higher qCO2. In general, the herbicides provided a negative effect on microbial biomass, proportional to the concentrations applied, being smaller in soil under NTS than in soil under CPS. This one you'll have to read. Some microbes increase, some decrease. Here's the final paragraph and the conclusion. http://www.ath.aegean.gr/srcosmos/showpub.aspx?aa=5462 EFFECT OF ATRAZINE ON MICROBIAL ACTIVITY IN SOIL AND MAIZE RHIZOSPHERE Milosevic Nada,* Govedarica Mitar** and Cvijanovic Gorica*** According to Greaves and Malkomes [7], most groups of microorganisms regain their population size 30 days after herbicide application. If inhibition of microbiological activity persists longer than 60 days, the ecological balance is considered to be disturbed. Microorganisms are constituting elements of the environment. Their abundance, enzymatic activity and biodiversity are good indicators of the balance in the agro-ecological system. CONCLUSION Atrazine affected the biological activity of the soil. The impact of atrazine depended on its dose and date of testing. It was observed that atrazine cause highest reduction in the total number of microorganisms, the number of azotobaters and DHA in the period of 60 days after application. The higher doses of the herbicide were more detrimental for the total number of microorganisms than the lower dose. Atrazine application increased the numbers of actinomycetes and fungi, especially the higher dose. This one shows a decrease in soil biomass after using a herbicide... http://www.springerlink.com/content/fu8wu864f6x0078r/ Relationship between rimsulfuron degradation and microbial biomass content in a clay loam soil Authors C. Vischetti, P. Perucci, L. Scarponi Abstract The present research was conducted to determine the relationship between the degradation of rimsulfuron and soil microbial biomass C in a laboratory-incubated clay loam soil (pH=8.1; organic matter=2.1%) under different conditions and at different initial dosages (field rate, 10 and 100 times the field rate). The half-life values varied between 0.4 and 103.4 days depending on temperature, soil moisture and initial dose. Evidence suggested that rimsulfuron could pose environmental risks in cold and dry climatic conditions. Significant decreases in microbial biomass C content in rimsulfuron-treated soil, compared to untreated soil, were observed initially, especially at higher temperatures and low moisture levels, but never exceeded 20.3% of that in control soil. The microbial biomass C content then returned to initial values at varying times depending on incubation conditions. The relationship between herbicide degradation and microbial biomass C content gave parabolic curves (P...See MoreSalt-index of chemical fertilizer & soluble for hot weather
Comments (37)Purlisa: I no longer post for the pubic, but I make exceptions when people ask for me specifically. I respect & learn from honest folks like you who share about their garden. I learn more from honest folks who talk about problems in their garden, than gorgeous pics. of roses (with zero details as to type of soil & pH-level & climate & annual rainfall). That's my pet-peeve in HMF, folks just post pics, without specifying if it's own-root or grafted, zero info. on planting zone & type of soil & climate. If you click on my Houzz profile-picture , I updated to include tips on how to tell which own-roots are appropriate for which soil pH, type of soil & climate, just by looking at the leaves. https://www.houzz.com/user/strawchicago I received 8 roses yesterday 6/15 from RU summer sale, they are BIG, and some are over 2 feet tall & with buds & blooms .. very healthy. These roses are bigger & more blooms that the 7 roses I bought full-price early May. My last house was acidic clay: soft & easy to dig, with blue hydrangeas & deep-colors roses. My current house is alkaline clay: rock-hard, need a pick-ax to dig, pink hydrangeas, and roses have faded colors. Roses are much healthier in alkaline clay. My purpose of posting is to help foiks NOT to make the same mistakes like I did in my 30+ years of growing roses, and 110 own-root varieties. My B.S. is in Computer Science, minor in Chemistry, so I want to use my background to help folks. If you have sticky & dense clay, skip the Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate), since it hardens clay further. MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY IS RARE, EXCEPT IN SANDY SOIL (this is from the booklet when I got my soil tested by EarthCo.) My sticky clay soil was tested exceedingly high in magnesium. Skip the molasses, I tested for many years and it attracts rose-slugs, plus sugarly stuff LOWERS soil pH, sugar sours things fast. Azomite is similar to dolomitic lime (both have pH 9), but Azomite works faster. Digging deep, and remove the dense & icky clay & rocks at bottom helps with drainage, so acidic rain water don't sit at the bottom to rot roots. If your clay soil is acidic, COARSE sand (paver's sand) is good on top. BAGGED SAND AT STORES IS VERY ALKALINE, so it will neutralize the acidity of rain. Niels in Denmark, with hundreds of roses, put sand on top of his acidic clay. Skip the alfalfa, it becomes VERY ACIDIC like Kimchi if decays in acidic rain water. Many folks report roses breaking out in blackspots after "sour alfalfa tea", it's like watering roses with sauerkraut or Kimchi-water. At least Kimchi or sauerkraut has salt to control the acidity, but I already tested acidic-alfalfa-tea and it made leaves thinner, thanks to its acidity. Since my clay is rock-hard alkaline at pH near 8, I use acidic pine bark (pH 4) to fix my clay. People root roses in sand. I read a book by a CA rose-grower on the coast (mild temperate climate), he bought a land filled with sand and converted into a rose nursery, to sell cut-flowers !! Here's an excerpt from Houzz when I googled on clay .. folks in CA have heavy abode clay, while I have dolomitic clay. But both are mineral-rich clay. Kittymoonbeam have over 100+ roses in Southern CA, wrote this in Houzz .. from my experience I agree with her 100% .. I killed plenty of roses with acidic organic matter in the planting hole. And Roses Unlimited's tip of 1 cup of alfalfa meal mix-in WORKS ONLY FOR THEIR ALKALINE-TAP WATER inside nursery, but NOT FOR OUTDOOR ACIDIC RAIN, with pH 4.5 in my Chicagoland, and even more acidic rain on the East Coast. Kittymoonbeam - "I just came from a soils class by a local nurseryman. He said DON'T add organic amendment into the soil. The plants only tolerate it, not prosper in it. The short of it is that eventually it breaks down and rots causing oxygen problems in the root zone. A NASA guy said NO terrestrial plant wants to live in ground up dead tree. So most potting soils are only good for maybe 5 months, then they start harming plants. The growers know the plants can only survive a short period before they decline in that mix. Potting up in non amended soil causes no harm. You can grow in 100 percent sand as long as you water and feed often enough. Strawberry leaves from plants grown in sand were twice the size of those in the premium potting mix! There are no overwatering issues. Why the change from propagation in soil to wood products is a long story. However, we've all been taught to do it. But no one ever used to in the old days. Disneyland removed their riverbed soil and replaced with amended soil. After a few years, they took it all out and purchased new riverbed sandy loam and now they only mulch on top. This is all new to me but that's the way it was for millions of years. The organic stuff stays on top where it breaks down and travels to the roots below. Roots want a purely mineral soil with as much oxygen as they can get and still be moist." Kittymoonbeam. Lauren (Los Angeles, 10a, Sunset Zone 19) - kittymoonbeam, that does seem to make sense. Limited personal experience has also showed me that top dressing compost with shredded leaves/mulch produced better results than than simply mixing some compost into the surrounding soil" Lauren...See MoreBouquets of no-spray roses & when and what to fertilize for health
Comments (28)Here's the recipe from Gardenknowhow site: https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/plant-problems/pests/pesticides/epsom-salt-for-pest-control.htm "Epsom Salt Solution Insect Control – A mixture of 1 cup Epsom salt and 5 gallons of water may act as a deterrent to beetles and other garden pests. Mix the solution in a large bucket or other container, and then apply the well-dissolved mixture to foliage with a pump sprayer. Many gardeners believe that the solution not only deters pests, but may kill many on contact. Dry Epsom Salt – Sprinkling Epsom salt in a narrow band around plants may be an effective means of slug control, as the scratchy substance abrades the “skin” of the slimy pests. Once the skin is effectively roughed up, the slug dries up and dies." From Straw: The epsom-salt-solution spraying is more effective than the dry-epsom salt for MIDGE. Why? Cornell University research on midge showed that midge larvae needs a certain % of moisture to hatch. I posted that research in 2014. Midge doesn't like it too dry nor too wet. One recommendation was to flood the area. My high-magnesium clay is SOAKING WET when it rains, but BONE-DRY when it's dry, so midge larvae can't hatch. Epsom-salt (magnesium sulfate) is neutral pH, so it won't hurt plants if you flood only the top 1/2" of soil. But if too much Epsom-salt solution gets to the root-zone, it'll make soil too dense for root-growth....See MoreRelated Professionals
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