SHOP BY DEPARTMENT
Houzz Logo Print
bart_2010

What would look good with Westerland and Climbing Mrs Sam?

bart_2010
9 years ago

Inspired by Jay's thread on russets, I'd like to hear some ideas of what to place with the orange rose Westerland.I have very mixed feelings about this rose; I've begun to realize that I just really don't much like the bright oranges! I've had this rose for a couple years; moved it up on a hill to a spot where it can't go around clashing horribly with my beloved old-fashioned mauvey- pinks and purples,but it got badly eaten by deer last year (since then I got some fencing up). I'd like to put something with it; I'm thinking dark reds and warm,pale pinks...
And what about Climbing Mrs. Sam McGredy? This is another one I got a couple of years ago (before I realized that oranges were a bit problematic for me). It's never taken off: at first, it was in a spot that I've subsequently realized might be just too exposed to the hot sun for roses. I moved it up on the hill,too, but it, too was gobbled by the deer. Now I'm thinking of moving it yet again, but doing a better soil-preparation job for it this time. Do any of you grow this one? How does it's colour compare with that of Westerland? Any and all opinions are welcome! bart
P.S. I don't want to give up yet on either of these, because I'm not convined I've given them a fair chance.Westerland looked horrendous next to the beloved Mme. Isaac Pereire (WHAT WAS I THINKING????????),but it might wind up being beautiful if placed in proper company...

Comments (15)

  • aviastar 7A Virginia
    9 years ago

    How do you feel about the softer apricots and pink/orange blends? I really like this color way, so I might not be the best person to ask, but if it were me I would add softer warm colors in the range, with Westerland and Mrs. SC being the two boldest in a mix of creams, yellows, pinks, and apricots. So the orange tones are not ignored, but blended into a much softer overall look.

  • bart_2010
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes, AviaStar, that sounds like an excellent idea. Now, can you go one further with a few names? The thing is, I sort of tried that idea with Westerland in it's second spot, but put it with some tea roses, and the delicate habits of the Teas made poor Westerland look like the proverbial bull in a china shop,because of it's distinctly "modern" over-all look.Since my aim is to "soften" the entire effect, I wouldn't want any HT's,because there again the habit of the plant would do nothing towards adding grace. This year I just added Cornelia to the picture (the Pemberton HMusk),hoping that it will act as a buffer between Westerland and Baronne Snoy. The Baronne, though a Tea, is not a particularly graceful shrub either,so the idea would be that Cornelia could scramble through the Baronne to soften it. Maybe this concept could work with Westerland.Any ideas? The fact that you really like these colours makes you the perfect person to ask, IMO! regards, bart

  • Campanula UK Z8
    9 years ago

    The very ancient clematis, viticella purpurea plena elegans looks sensational with oranges....and the contrast in bloom shapes and size might be just the ticket.

  • vasue VA
    9 years ago

    Like AviaStar, also favor these warm color-blend roses & prefer to soften their impact by picking out the paler tones with companions. First rose that comes to mind is Autumn Sunset, a sport of Westerland with the same habit & bloom form in pale gold/apricot/cream. The semi-double open blooms of these two present a more wildflower mood than the old-fashioned roses predominant in your garden, so can understand the clash in close proximity. In my experience, both want to be tall & bushy - no bare knees on these - and are healthy & vigorous without becoming overpowering giants in time. Don't know where you garden, so your experience may differ.

    I also find the bushy climbers very practical in deer country. Protected until they grow above nibble height, the deer here tend to leave them alone. The first flush of Westerland can be bright (though in the soft light of Spring find this cheerful rather than jarring), but further flushes are more subdued here. Like your idea of Cornelia's graceful charm transitioning & blurring the rose forms.

    Mrs. Sam has a more petal-packed bloom than Westerland or Autumn Sunset, perhaps less full than your other roses, but definitely in the hybrid tea form, so apart from her coloring, would expect her growth to harmonize more easily with your current roses. Grew her briefly (fell ill, garden neglected) some years back & found the tone of her blooms to register mostly salmon rather than orange here, a salmon pink, with the darker red tones lost as the flowers opened, She needed support, unlike Westerland & sport which grow well freestanding.

    Don't know your garden layout, but perhaps you could plant Mrs. Sam at one end or vantage point & leave Westerland on the hill as the other bookend note, using other types of roses or companions to flow between your current forms & colors to harmonize the whole? Mrs. Sam could be pillared or given an obelisk or arch. Or plant Autumn Sunset between Westerland & Mrs. Sam to soften both, with lower fountaining roses at either side to tumble down the hill & anchor their height. Some of the semi-double or single older hybrid teas like Mrs. Oakley Fisher or Dainty Bess might be added in front of the climbers or in the general area.

    Like Campanula's suggestion of a clemats weaver. Might also consider Roguchi for its pretty wildling-look bells, or Betty Corning for the same with more heft. Either could be placed behind the climbers to grow forward into them & ring them behind. Both are type 3 pruning, which makes them easy on the gardener.

    Thank you for reminding me of Mrs. Sam - want her back again.

    .

    Here is a link that might be useful: Autumn Sunset

    This post was edited by vasue on Sun, Jan 12, 14 at 13:35

  • aviastar 7A Virginia
    9 years ago

    Hm, well, I'm a really new rose-er, so I am still absorbing all the subtleties of different varieties and bush habits. My basic distinguishing categories seem to be "Oh, PRETTY!" and "meh". HAHA

    So keep my inexperience in mind; I don't always know what habits a bush will have or what the finer points of difference between a HT and floribunda are.

    That said, these are my favorite colors and I do keep a running list of roses I like the looks of, both of which Westerland and Mrs. SC are on. So, I'll be more than happy to give it a go! :)

    Some that were highly recommended to me last season that didn't make my garden last year, but are on my short list this year:
    Crepuscule
    Alchemist

    Roses I grew this year that were wonderful, both have pink bases for me, with hints of orange:
    Talisman
    Royal Sunset

    Some I am very interested in for this year and am currently investigating:
    Peach Silk
    Dixieland Linda
    Apricot Drift (not a climber, but the pictures look divine and it might be nice to change up some of the height in the bed)
    Alistair Stella Gray
    Pele
    Day Breaker (also not a climber)

    And, I heartily agree with Camp- adding some clematis is high on my gardening to do list this year as well!

  • bart_2010
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    O boy am I glad I started this thread-you people are great, this is really getting the wheels turning. The problem when one doesn't particularly care for a given colour can be that it becomes difficult to think about it with care, and you wind up with a "self-fulfilling prophecy"-type situation; i.e., bart decides that she might not really like orange roses that much, so she tends to neglect them, then when the plants don't do well ,she says"see, that orange rose doesn't look good; I guess I don't like oranges".I'm gonna try for the idea of having Wland as the brightest note in a flow of soft peaches and apricots . I already moved two HT's that were sent to me by mistake up there with Wland:Dainty Bess, and a mystery rose that was sent to me instead of Jubilee Celebration; it's a warm, peachy-pink blend (have been meaning for years to post photos to try to ID it...)
    I don't know about Mrs. Sam; I dug it up,but don't know if there's still a spot with good enuf soil for it up on the hill (in future I hope to improve it, but don't know if I can swing it for this year). I do seem to remember that the flowers of this rose are a more subtle colour than those of Wland,so maybe it could go into the lower garden---hmmm...
    The clematis idea is good, too. Could anyone go one further for me; I was thinking, what about some small shrub or perennial with those purple-y, burgundy coloured leaves? Some time ago there was a weigela around called something like "Wine and Roses". It had those deep purple leaves ,and pinky flowers in May. A plant of that sort would look great with Wland's bright flowers, I think,and the dark purple leaves would provide a fine contrast.I DO want to get away from monoculture,so that would be an added plus...thanks again, one and all, for your inspiring ideas! bart

  • Campanula UK Z8
    9 years ago

    yep, there is a dark leaved wiegela about (W.follis purpurea)....but it tends to have low wide growth. Perhaps one of the dark leaved cotinus? Even some of the berberis (and they also have some great orange blossoms). Physocarpus opulifolius? Annual atriplex?
    I do particularly enjoy deep reds with oranges (I grow Arabian Night and David Howard Dahlias together a lot).....but I do like to add in a citrus-y dash of lime. Then purples also blend well.

    Or how about backing the lot with Rosa glauca - those bronzy glaucous leaves are something to see in the right light.

  • vasue VA
    9 years ago

    Sounds like you're starting to mix it up in your garden - like that! Do find a place for Mrs. Sam, perhaps leaving her potted till she blooms again so you can audition her with various combinations before you commit to replant her. Have done that for years, saving my back & the roses' growth at the same time.

    You might consider an evergreen (everpurple?) shrub instead of deciduous weigela, lovely as they are. Look into the purple & burgundy foliaged lorapetalums like Purple Pixie, Purple Diamond, Daruma if your zone will allow. Maybe heuchera or heucherella for their changling evergreen forms, such as Southern Comfort or Sweet Tea, which would benefit from your hillside drainage. Tried Agastache Acapulco Orange with the warm hued roses last year & liked their lacy vertical accent (as did the hummers, butterflies & bees). Evergreen Christmas ferns might make a nice patch uphill from the roses. All are deer-resistant here & the ferns discourage access to some of the roses, as the deer seem hesitant to step where they can't see the ground.

    AviaStar, an ownroot Dixeland Linda/Lady Ashe has graced this garden for 5 years, along with Aloha from which she sported. Heartily recommend both for their health with no spray, vitality, generous blooms & good perfume. Grew Pele in another garden when it became available in the early 80's & remember it as healthy, floriferous, well-scented & unbothered by thrips. Have been thinking of adding him here, along with White Cap. Talisman climbing arrived with Mrs. Sam years back & perished from unintentional neglect. Talisman's coloration was the same here as for you with a warm pink base.

    Thanks to all for jogging my memory & opening up new possibilites.

  • bart_2010
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Great ideas and suggestions; thanks! I did go ahead and plant Mrs Sam; I really like the idea of having that and Wland as two bright accents in a flowing sea of peachy pinks and apricots,with some plum-coloured accents added. I'm going to start Googling all the plants suggested by Campanula and Vasue. I do like the idea of the "ever-purple"plants...bart

  • aviastar 7A Virginia
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the recommendations, vasue! I'm north of you in Loudoun, so hopefully they will fare as well for me as they have for you!

    bart, this has the makings of a lovely, lovely bed. Let us know what you decide on and then...pictures please!

  • bart_2010
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It's going to take a while, Aviastar...the soil up there is extremely thin in many places, so it'll be a couple years probably before I can get it done. For now, I have:Dainty Bess and Mystery Peachy-pink HT right up close to Wland. I also stuck in an own-root Comtesse du Cayla that had out-grown it's pot; perhaps too strong of a colour, but maybe it'll blend in.I put Mrs. Sam clg about 4 meters away;hopefully this'll grow up with an ash tree.I think that's all for this year, unless I decide to plant out my own-root Pink Mermaid behind Wland; it's still kinda small, though. The plan for future years is:put in a peachy-pinkie climber/rambler opposite Mrs Sam (Paul Noel, Paul Transon, Meg...lots of choices),and maybe another such climber can go into the arms of a big wild rose that's already there, between Mrs Sam and Wland,or else perhaps this'd be the spot for the purple-leaved shrub.Lorapetalums do look beautiful, but I got the idea from Internet that they prefer acid soil, so I doubt they'd like my garden much.Cotinus,berberis and Physocarpus op. might be better choices, but there's a real good'un that I found, too: Sambucus niger Black Lace or Black Beauty!!!! Deciduous,but very beautiful, judging from the photos,and quite delicate-looking. Better yet, sambuca does grow wild in the woods around here, so that makes me think it might do well in my garden. I also found a purple-leaf weigela offered here in Italy... Then,in front of the climbers/ tall shrubs,I could put in the more graceful shrub-roses ; those with cascading habits; I'm thinking of Hybrid musks in particular, but maybe also Phyllis Bide, grown as a cascader...another Cornelia, say, and a Francesca...then, if it all seems to welcome a touch of contrast, maybe a dark pum-coloured rose...but for this year, we're at the tail end of planting season, and I've already put in more than 100 baby roses ,so I think I've probably already really over-extended myself! bart

  • Campanula UK Z8
    9 years ago

    We would dearly love to see the odd photo, Bart. Me especially since, like you, my garden is somewhat removed from my domicile (and still in a wild and rambling mess) - any encouragement regarding managing distant plots is well received.

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    9 years ago

    I used to grow Westerland as a climber, but I had three together. Westerland's canes get hard faster than other climbers, but three together were quite dramatic. My problem was being a little late in supporting the canes, and they thickened going the wrong way.

    I had them at the side of the yard, and near them were smaller roses of any color I wanted. It looked to me like the Westerlands were looking over the entire yard.

    To me, to have a large display of Westerland, then have other beds in the yard was attractive. My roses near them were about 4 feet tall, and rather delicate.

    Good luck
    Sammy

  • harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania
    9 years ago

    I grow two Westerland as climbers. They fare well here. Hardy and vigorous reaching over ten feet with minimal feeding.

    Although the blooms open orange, they quickly fade to salmon/yellow blend. At any time there may be anything from orange to a pastel light salmon or coral.
    {{gwi:212237}}

    Originally I grew Betty Corning clematis, which is a light blue-purple, with Westerland. Betty soon overwhelmed the arbor and the rose.

    {{gwi:212238}}

    I later transplanted Betty Corning and substituted the viticelli clematis Venosa Violacea

    {{gwi:212239}}

  • bart_2010
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the photos! I really like the colour comination in foto 2; the FADED Wland flowers with the clematis. That is sort of what I'm hoping to do: pair Wland up with paler apricot/pinky pastel companions so that even when it's flowers are at the colour-phase illustrated in photo 1,the general effect will be more like that in photo 2. The colour combination in Photo3 is great; I'd like to achieve something like that, but with a lot of the above-mentioned pastel colours mixed in...and some deep plum-coloured leaves ...

Sponsored
MAC Design + Build
Average rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars15 Reviews
Loudon County Full-Service Design/Build Firm & Kitchen Remodeler