Wow three years that's a long time on the drawing board. Are you planning on digging this by hand? There are several options. People build clay ponds(no liner) but you will experience more problems controling the spreading of any plants that get started in your pond.I have seen advertised a product that you can spray on the dirt that can work simular to a liner but not sure how well it works. Have you considered using a BTU liner the price is excellent .39 sq ft and a underliner is not needed.material is much lighter and easy to handle. Here is the web site check it out.http://www.btlliners.com Where are you located?

Fm3

I would only use a ppl liner from Bendtarp if I had no plans to add a skimmer or anything that requires cutting a hole in the liner.

If you do plan on using a skimmer than you will need to buy their tape-coat. Cuts for any piping require a pipe boot from them. The tape and pipe boots are expensive.

I bought a 45 x 50 liner from them thinking I would save money and due to the tape not holding and other issues, I have spent about $1000 more than the liner cost. If you want ppl and want to cut holes for a skimmer and a BD then site welding is the only sure way to make it leak proof.

On ppl,If you use any rocks even around the edges or in the pond they recommend use of an overlayment. That adds to the cost.

I will state that Bend Tarp did try to help as much as possible and an employee made a clamp for me to install to hold the liner together when the pipe boots failed.

EPDM is much easier to repair I could have made my own pipe boots for less than $1.

If I had to do it all over again, I would use EPDM.

To the OP, If you have a pond or Koi club nearby, see if any one of their members have any scrap pieces of liner large enough to do your pond.

If you feel comfortable with advertising, put an ad on Craigs list. You would be surprised at how many people have supplies left over from their pond build and would be glad if you took it off their hands.

I would use old carpeting for an underlayment. We had friends replacing theirs and they gave us their old carpet. Make sure there are no nail or tacks left behind.

I hope this helps, Do not skimp on the liner. If you do, it will bring so many headaches later.

I built a stream 125ft. long with 4 water falls & 2 small ponds about 5ft across & 9in. deep...no fish. To get to the point, I used EPDM for liner without underlament.After pricing on the net I bought 40mil EPDM roofing materal local & saved on materal & shipping. For example, 10 x 100 ft. at $372.18 with tax inc. on your water fall. You will want a pump that will pump about 3000 to 4000 gph. I bought a pump from Harbor Freight for $49.00. It has worked fine for the last year. I am just trying to say that you don't have to buy everything from a landscape company. They wanted $800.00 for the liner and $600.00 for the pump.

Mike

Hey frogman thanks for the help. Yes it's been a long time. I have many other projects going from woodcarving to volunteering to teaching classes etc etc. I am retired but still very busy. The main hold-up is money, but the darn digging keeps me stalled also. I will check out BTU site thanks, I am in southern rural Michigan s.w. of Lansing.

Thanks lsst for all the great detail in your response. All of your ideas are great. The not skimping on liner is another reason I have been held up. I did want to make a "channel" about 12"dia and 6'0" long that would go from the pond into my green house so I could keep that water unfrozen in the cold winter months. Maybe that will be too expensive and exotic an engineering feat for me to pull off.
Koi club may be a possibility too, I'll check with that and the Craig's list idea may save some bucks too.

Mike, yeah I heard about using roofing matl too. I checked at Menards and I can get epdm 45ml 10x20 for about $80.(close to what you paid for your 100ft..) You just have to wash it several times before you make a pond that'll be safe for fish. Boy that stream with waterfalls sounds really great. I have a pump I got from an old Jacuzzi, but maybe I should get the order# for the Harbor Freight from you just in case it does not do the job. Yes, you are right I don't have to buy from a landscaping outfit. Of course I have been looking for deals and good ideas and you guys have helped allot. Now I gotta find a young kid to help me dig this clay..ha ha. where are you all located by the way?.

The clay soil makes a big job even bigger. When digging my stream I would take the dirt out and pile it next to the stream. That way I increased my depth, and it saved some digging. By the way, the item # for the pump is #93820. I paid $49.99 on sale. I have seen it for $39.99 since then. I live in West Tn. in Madison Co. near Jackson. Patience is the name of the game!

Mike

I got my 45 mil EPDM on sale half price at the end of the season at a pet store. Ditto for a floating skimmer,backup pump, UV filter, etc. I have a new roll of 45 mil roof EPDM in the garage from Menards, that I got on sale for the next step. My 1585 gph pump came from Harbor Freight, online, on sale. With a 7 foot high waterfall you MUST look at "head" or lifting capacity. I had to pay full price for my Skippy stock tank.
My pond is in heavy clay too. It took me most of the summer to dig it all by hand. I am 64, 5'tall, overweight and I have fibromyalgia and carpal tunnel and two years ago I broke my back so the next stage is postponed for a while. LOL! when you reach my age I guess you start falling apart.
It is possible to do a clay lined pond but it isn't likely to work without adding Bentonite. Greenskinnydipper has one in the works and I think just about every problem and process has been discussed in this and additional posts. I put the first link below. There are following discussions as well. Sandy

Here is a link that might be useful: Greenskinnydippers Bentonite pond

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Thanks sleeplessinftwayne, Wow you are just full of info. I went to the clay puddling site and although I am fascinated by these techniques I think it might take too much people power and money for good clay for me to get going. That idea is really amazing, I always wondered about canals and how they kept water in them. I also wonder how to get water out of the ground via a windmill but I don't have the energy at this point to make one, even if I had the plans and a point to drive in the earth. I just took lsst's advice and went onto craigs list and though I don't know the exact size of the mat'l they have yet, I may have found some used EPDM material. Waiting on a return email after he goes to measure it at his parent's house.

I am 67 and have a bunch of old people's health stuff too, so I have to go slowly at this project as I am falling apart also. (I am amazed that with fibromyalgia, you were able to dig in clay..It is so hard to do.) You are correct, I do need to consider how the pump will "lift" the water up the 7 foot height, not sure if my $20 (garage sale) Jacuzzi pump will do it. I guess I need to get a holding tank also at the top of the "falls". I don't even know what a 'skimmer" is and if I need one. I have not read-up on the proper "pond" requirements and I probably should do that though I do not follow directions very well.

Thanks so much again, for all of the great reading here. I may get a friend to who also wants to put in a pond to share the rental on a backhoe once I get the liner in hand. When it rains the water sits on the ground there a long time, so I thought that after I dig the hole I might fill it with water and see how long before it leaks out...ha ha,

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