Japanese style pond- No rock edging? or liner?

16 years ago

Hi!

I'm planning on re-doing my water-garden completely this spring and I'm thinking of going Japanese. In the research I was doing, I found an article (sample) that started to say how you should never ring your pond in rocks to avoid the "necklace effect". It talked about using a variety of edges and I suppose includes some kind of plant edge. This sounds lovely, but we all know the liner needs held up with something. I know I've seen a UK gardening show that had a grass edge (Pretty, but can we say "mowing nightmare!") Perhaps another ground cover that would completely obscure a flat rock and liner? Any clues?

Also another article teased you with the statement: "This article exposes the shortcomings of pond liners when it comes to Japanese garden water features. Pond liners might be adequate in providing backyard fun to an average water garden enthusiast, but they don't get the job done in serious Japanese gardens that have much higher standards of quality and aesthetic beauty." I think you have to buy the magazine to get the full story.

In the end, I think I'll probably go with the tried and true liner, but I'd love to know the answer to what's wrong with our liners.

Thanks!

Shelley

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (8)

annafl
16 years ago
I have a non-japanese style pond, but I do have a liner and grass comes to the edge about half the way around, mulch/bed on the other half. Here is the effect I've achieved:

{{gwi:194109}}

This photo is from last late spring. It got better through the summer and fall, but the winter brought death to some of the border plants. They are just starting to recover now.

Anna
annedickinson
16 years ago
Anna,

OMG May I please come pitch a tent in your yard? That is so beautiful and natural looking.

I am filled with pond-envy!!

Anne
Related Discussions
How do I cover up the liner's edge with plants?
Q
Comments (12)
One trick I've heard about is to bury something underneath the edge of the liner to give it support - say some bricks or small concrete slabs. What this does is gives the liner edge some support, and it also allows you to place the extra liner behind these supports and under the soil (creating a rubber-lined "lip" that is above the water line). This will allow you to have excess liner available, and will also allow you to plant terrestrial plants extremely close to the water's edge. Don't forget to wrap the underlayment over these supports as well. One thing I plan on doing for my upper pond (that I will be adding when spring hits) is to create some bog areas on the edges - make a wide and/or deep "shelf" that is a couple inches below the water line, and then use something as a divider between this bog and the main pond. Bricks, stacked rocks, wood planks, etc can work as dividers - just depends on what look you're going for (I'll be using Trex-type composite lumber). Fill in behind the divider with dirt and you have your moist soil/bog area. Combine this with the edge treatment above and you probably wouldn't be able to tell where the yard ends and the pond begins if you pick the plants right.
...See More
Pond Edge - bog / plant filter
Q
Comments (19)
Thanks Jason and Sandy :-) Ouch Sandy! I have limited experiece with lava rock, but I can imagine the discomfort. I think experimenting is great fun-- you never know: one day you might be the one to discover the perfect pond setup that nobody else thought of! Sorry I don't have much of a philosophy on ponds, Jason. I too just keep experimenting and hoping all goes well. Of course, reading the wealth of knowledge on this forum doesn't hurt either. :-) What you can't see in the photos is that our pump won't prime when hooked up to the skimmer,so right now there's a big black intake hose sitting on the pond bottom with a strainer designed for a sump pump attached to the end. Real beautiful. When I complained, my DH's only comment was "Well, there's the bottom drain you always wanted!" I probably should add the statistics of our pond to the bog page, but the size is roughly 15x30' x3.5'deep, the bog is a little less than 1/3 that size and about 2' deep. David or anyone else that migth still be interested-- here is a link that was helpful when we started researching bog/veggie filters. If nothing else, it has a great list of plant to try in and around ponds & bogs. Sherry Here is a link that might be useful: Nelson Water Gardens -Bog Filter Construction.pdf
...See More
need pump/liner advice for large 5000 gal pond
Q
Comments (10)
jclimber, I've have a setup very similar to what you are talking about though my pond is only half the size, still large for an ornamental pond with goldfish. I have a Savio Skimmer with two pumps, one goes to a rapids effect at a small, small stream that feeds in under the biofilter fall, and, the other one pumps into the biofilter. I also have an upper pool and a lower pool separated by a wide but short water fall. The Savio Skimmer (full size) is located at the other end of the lower pool from the waterfall. My two magdrive pumps work fine. Laguna brand 3900 waterfall pumps. That all said, I would take ccoombs advice, no doubt. The number one problem with my pond is keeping the detritus and other junk off the bottom. In fact, you never can keep it off the bottom. The detritus is so fine that you only stir-it up if you get in to clean the pond. So my advice would be to go with the bottom drain setup but still use a skimmer box for the top floating stuff. Thanks for the btm drn link, ccoombs; I hadn't seen that... and thanks for the explanation of the bottom drain (not for draining, necessarily) because when I first heard about BDs that what I thought for sometime! I like the suggestions for saving money. If you can afford the time, better to make your own... esp. underlayment; I actually think old carpet (go dumpster diving at a carpet store) is superior to the underlayments I've laid hands on. Here's another suggestion: I'd get the rock out. It would be one thing if they were in the water atop the liner, but rolling liner up over them is just taking up space. Plus, you could use those big ones to help landscape at the edge. So it occurred to me when you talked about getting an electrician to bring a circuit out to the pond that this electrician is going to have to pay someone to trench. Most places are under the National Electric Code and that means burying the cable 30" or more... they're going to want to use a trencher. If you're going to have to get a trencher in for that you could save by getting a mini-excavator (rental from any tool/equip rental shop) and have it equipped with multiple bucket sizes... most come with options. get a slender bucket for the trench work, wider bucket for the rock. If an excavator can't lift the rock it should be able to beat on it enough to crack it smaller and scoop it out... of course, you could just pay someone to remove the large rocks. Whatever you decide make sure you have 'em mark the area for underground utilities. I really like your setup though. You never did say if you planned to have fish, what kind? Is that a german sheppard!? He/She will love the pond!
...See More
rocks and pond liner - problems!
Q
Comments (1)
Kashka Kat, What type rock are you talking about? In WI you could be talking about quite a few different type rocks that would be in your area. Normally rock is not a problem for EDPM rubber liner unless you have some very sharp edges or points on it. I have put rocks that have weighed more 4000 lbs directly on the liner with no extra padding with no problems. Where you can run into problems is sliding the rock on the rubber. I have also seen 30 lb rocks put holes in the liner if they were set down carefully. That is one reason why I prefer to use Wisconsin granite cobblers as they were created by the glaciers and are mostly smooth. Mike
...See More
azponder
16 years ago
When you trim the grass how do you keep your mower from blowing grass all over your pond?
annafl
16 years ago
Thanks, pashta. We love our pond and it attracts numerous critters that give us hours of entertainment.

azponder, some of the clippings get in. The skimmer will pick up most of them. I mow to within a foot or so of the edge, and my DH uses a weed whacker about every second or third time closer in if needed.

Anna
Tony_C
16 years ago
To create the edge of my pond, (it's in a Japanese style garden) I used several different techniques.

1) A beach of 1-2" stones, held in place by a small lip beneath the liner and covered with stone, so the stone is a couple of inches below the water level. The liner then extends under the beach and above the waterline.
2) An area where the edge of the liner is scalloped (and pinned on the longest scallops), then planted with creeping thymeall around and close to the waters edge.The Thyme is starting to grow over the liner. In it's 1st year it's covered about 1/2 the water's edge.(I used seed, so I could cover a large area)
3) The traditional shelf with rocks, about 12-15" diameter interspersed with maginal plants.
4) An area planted with Japanese junipers (procumbens nana) with creep thyme around.

Since the plantings are only added last year, I'm expecting full waters edge ooverage this summer.

Regards, Tony

The pond edge is still maturing
shelley_t
Original Author
16 years ago
Anna! That is beautiful! Thank you for your tips as well Tony! I am sort of getting ideas now and may even continue to use my hard liner which I'm thinking of silicone sticking rocks to the edges all the way down to make it look more natural and (don't freak)... cutting out one edge to extend it on to make it larger and to make a skimmer which it desperately needs. I may be out of my mind, but that's one of many spring projects!

Thanks again! I'll let you know how it turns out!
rickyl
15 years ago
Anna:
Living in Japan, I guess I can say I have a Japanese IKE. My father-in-law built it many hears ago when he built his home. It is a cement version, rather large, and it has rocks around the edges: some are small others are big: some go down to the bottom, some barely hit the water. Ground cover is pea rock, moss and flowering bushes like azaleas. Maintenance is intensive and without chemicals gets dirty quickly. But you are right about Japanese ponds...they are lovely! My suggestion is don't be afraid to use rocks. Maybe vary the size of the rocks.
amyflora
15 years ago
Another plant idea for the edge of a pond is creeping jenny, Lysimachia nummularia. I am a newbie to this though, and am not sure if this might interfere with pumps or get too aggressive. It take all kinds of conditions, and looks to me like bubbles.

Japanese style pond- No rock edging? or liner?

Comments (8)

annafl

annedickinson

Related Discussions

azponder

annafl

Tony_C

shelley_t
Original Author

rickyl

amyflora

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Japanese style pond- No rock edging? or liner?

Comments (8)

annafl

annedickinson

Related Discussions

azponder

annafl

Tony_C

shelley_tOriginal Author

rickyl

amyflora

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

shelley_t
Original Author