If you believe that:

Elvis is still alive

Nostradamus was accurate

a jack-a-lope is a real animal

storks deliver babies

and that....

Beer and mouth wash mixed together is good for your lawn.

Then Mr Baker is the real deal.(grin)

I think he's an entertainer that never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

Jerry Baker can be quite a controversial topic on this forum, although he hasn't popped up in a couple of years.

Let me try to give you (impartially) the highlights, although, you must know, as I start, that I am a fan of Jerry Baker. There are others who are not fans. My favoritism, and their criticism, should both be taken with a grain of salt: you'll have to make up your own mind. And then, there's the middle ground: you could say 'this part of Baker's advice is good, and THIS part of Baker's advice is not good. Yup. All of that, part of that, none of that, etc. Good luck with it.

That having been said, I repeat that I'm a fan of Baker.

Let's take his likely motivation. He offers (I am told, but I have not verified this, which means, I am claiming, in front, that I don't know if this is true) a 'newsletter', which costs about ten bucks a year. Yep: that's true. I have listened to his radio show, and he offers this newsletter often, at whatever the price is, and the price seems quite modest. I suppose, if you get a million subscribers, that the money adds up. I also suppose that if you only get fourteen subscribers, that you'll be a little short. So it goes. The point made is that the program might be free, or quite cheap, to the radio stations, which causes them to carry that program, as opposed to 'Uncle Wimpy's Gospel Hour' or some such crap. It is quite true that the program is heard on weekends, at 8 or 9 in the morning, and not heard on Monday at noon, or some other prime Drive Time hour. Very likely, some scientist has figured out that weekends, at nine, is when the lawn warriors are in their garage, listening to the radio. Again, so it goes.

But let's look at just his lawn advice. He's got a lot of 'home remedies', and they seem, when you're hearing them on the radio, to make 'sense'. Home remedies, as explained by me (hey, THERE'S an expert, eh?) means 'ordinary household items' that you can put to use, and 'improve' your lawn or garden. Let's note: 'improve' does not mean 'cure', or 'magic spell'. It ('improve') just means 'a little better than it was', doesn't it?

His main claim to fame (in my opinion) is two different tonics, applied to the lawn. He claims (and I agree) that these two tonics solve different problems. Thus, these different tonics should be applied at different times, rather than all at once (or it would be ONE tonic, likely called the Complete Jerry Baker Solution), depending on which problem that you have.

One tonic dispenses good stuff on the lawn (which the lawn needs), and the other tonic gets rid of pests (when you need to get rid of pests). So yes, these things are going onto the lawn at different times, for different reasons. Jerry Baker also offers, all the time, various advice for various problems, whether trees, roses, plants, whatever grows in your yard, and we are NOT talking about this, as this is the Lawn Forum, and we are talking about lawns).

Let's discuss the tonic (or 'beverage' or 'mix of stuff' or 'buncha crap' that you mentioned, in your post.

Ammonia: this is just plain liquid nitrogen. It's a lot more diluted than the mix the farmers use (which is called 'anhydrous ammonia', and you have to use gloves, goggles, and other safety equipment, because it's quite strong, quite caustic, and nobody in their right mind would actually handle the stuff). Household ammonia, in gallon jugs, is about 7% to 10% ammonia, and yes, it's still just plain nitrogen, although quite diluted. Your lawn needs nitrogen. This will add some nitrogen.

Beer: this has enzymes in it, which is how the hops and barley got to be beer. The enzymes rot and convert some things into other things. ('Fermentation'). Did I forget to mention this? The same enzymes 'convert' or 'ferment' the thatch in your lawn, and the thatch will disappear. Wowzer.

Coca Cola, 'pop' or other 'soda' drink (use the cheap one): the little critters in your soil thrive on sugar, and this is a great, and cheap, source of sugar. The microbes will do what microbes do best, which is munch soil, pass gas, look for female microbes, and, well, we'll just call it 'thrive'. Yep, the microbes will 'thrive' if they get some sugar. You just gave them some, eh? Nice job. Your lawn will love you for it.

The mouthwash: I think this has more to do with 'anti fungal', and belongs more in the 'cure some problems' than it belongs in the 'give the lawn a shot of sugar' mix.

The dish soap: Use the cheap stuff. The pink stuff, at 40 cents for a whole gallon stuff. That soap is going to make things more 'slippery' or, if you're a chemist, that stuff will act as a 'surfactant', and help things to work better than it would if the surfactant wasn't there. Most excellent.

Put it all in a bucket, and mix it up, and spray it out of your hose end sprayer, at 4 oz. to the gallon. Spray the heck out of everything, to the point that it runs off. Then move on, and spray something else. If it's green, spray it. If it's concrete, move on.

I like the mix. I use it about three times a year, and will not miss using it when the leaves are being mulched in the fall. I believe it helps the leaves to break down, and vanish into the lawn.

Will this take the place of regular fertilizing, with a fertilizer from Home Depot, or some other big box store? No. Will it help, a little bit? Will it add some things that the lawn will likely appreciate? Probably. It makes sense to me. And it isn't much work, and it's cheap.

And it gets people thinking about 'gee, if you add some things that the lawn needs, hey, you get a better lawn'. Wowser. That's a big step in itself, eh?

After reading some more of his book, as well as reading a bit about him on the web, I can see why some feel strongly against him. On some issues, though, I don't see why something like spraying beer on your lawn is THAT far away from spreading coffee grinds, which is widely accepted on this forum as a good idea.

Never afraid to be the board guinea pig, I spread the rest of my corn gluten meal today and followed that up by spraying some beer on it. I figured that maybe the beer would activate the microbes. Sounds nutty, but who knows. I will let you know if I wake up to a lawn that is 6 feet tall!

My biggest problem with that particular formula is ...
Beer has alcohol in it. It probably evaporates before hitting the ground, but for what it's worth, that amount of alcohol will not allow anything to live in the beer itself.

Mouthwash is a pure disinfectant. It is designed and mixed to kill bacteria and fungi. Healthy soil MUST have healthy bacteria and fungi.

My general problem with Jerry Baker's formulae is that they are not organic. At least the materials he likes are not usually harmful, but they don't do anything really positive for the soil.

I can understand the use of epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) for stronger roots and to help in a plants uptake of chlorophyll.

The beer? maybe that has something to do with the hops, grain or yeast that has an effect on a plant,perhaps other than getting your lawn intoxicated :)

Well here are my 2-cents. The amount of products Jerry is recommending doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Take ammonia for example. As mentioned household ammonia is about 5% suspended in water. So for that 16-oz bottle you buy at the store contains about .8-oz of nitrogen or lets just say -ound per cup. In other words it would take about 20 16-oz bottles of ammonia to fertilize 1000/ft2. But hold the bus. Care to guess what the PH of ammonia is and what that might do to your soil. One more thing to point out is just about all the nitrogen will evaporate as soon as hit hits the ground. Other than making the grass smell good, assuming you are using scented ammonia, and possible stripping off the protective waxy coating on your turf, I donÂt see any possible benefit.

Same can be said for the rest of his potions and notions. You are not adding enough to be of any benefit, and if you did it would cost a fortune and likely do a lot of harm.

Also keep on mind Jerry is a fake. He claims to be a Master Gardner; however he has not ever been certified by any such accredited organization program. He is just an author selling books and tapes.

He stands for two things, the power of placebo and the power of marketing.

If he gets people thinking about what the lawn needs, that's a good thing. Some of them (such as myself) may eventually come to organic methodology using grains and sludge.

At least there's not likely to be enough of anything harmful in any tonic to hurt the grass and gardens. Some things certainly do help a tiny bit. The price to inject sufficient nitrogen from ammonia would be exorbitant, and I really don't want to winge off my pH and bacteria populations that badly doing it.

In my opinion is that you should drink the beer, pee on your compost pile and put the compost on the lawn.

Jerry's mixture is a waste of good beer.

If you have seen his house on TV or in the books, you would see he has a very nice looking lawn. That probably has a lot more to do with him making lawn and garden care his full time job than any particular method though.

The tonics are what they are - which isn't much. The ones that contain soap act as a surficant, so water is absorbed into the soil easier - which is a good thing. The rest of the ingredients recommended are mostly water themselves, so don't expect a huge impact. You'll get a little nitrogen, a little sugar, and very little enzymes - all good things but in very small doses. Frankly, I doubt you would notice the difference between his "tonic" and just spraying soap.

I don't know anything about Jerry Baker, so I'll only address the formula posted here.

One problem I have with it is that it doesn't say how much it's supposed to cover, at least as presented here (my only frame of reference).

The can of beer will supply very little in the way of nutrients. It's possible that there's still a little live yeast, and there's also probably some sugar and maybe a small amount of protein.

The cup of antiseptic mouthwash might kill a few microbes, but not very many, so I don't think its deleterious effects are too dire. By the same token, I can't see how it could provide any beneficial effects (other than adding a small amount of sugar).

One cup of liquid dishsoap could provide some small benefit as a surfactant/wetting agent. If the soil absorbs water poorly, this could help a little. Depending on the type of dishsoap used, it may kill microbes.

The cup of ammonia would provide a minute amount of nitrogen. If it's applied as a foliar spray, it could provide a very temporary increase in nitrogen to the plant. If it's watered in, it would be so dilute that it couldn't do much of anything.

The half cup of Espsom salt would provide a small amount of Mg and and sulfur. If you have alkaline soil or soil that is low in Mg, Epsom salt can be helpful, but it is generally applied at a much higher rate (maybe 1/2 cup for an individual plant).

Years ago, I read about a study where they tried to increase efficiency at a couple of manufacturing plants. They called the workers in and explained what they wanted to do and said they'd be trying different things to see what could increase efficiency. In one plant, they had them work longer hours, but gave more breaks. Productivity rose. In the other plant, the decreased the hours and reduced the breaks. Again productivity rose.

They decided to go back to the baseline before their next test. Productivity rose again. Basically, they found that whatever they tried to test increased productivity.

I wonder if Schrödinger's cat is responsible for the improvements in the lawns treated by the Green Grass Magic elixir.

FYI. jackalopes *are* real!

{{gwi:120506}}

rutgers1, I have often remarked that if we were to be settling the "Wild West" today, we would be using 'off the road' vehicles, GPS devices and cell phones. But I do enjoy reading about that time, fiction and non fiction.
And that is what Jerry Baker and others do for me. They give me a view of how things used to be done. Would I do them that way? Not likely. But it is good to know if acquiring that type of knowledge is your kind of thing.
To tenderize meat, my mother used to wrap it in papaya leaves. My wife would rather buy the extract because it is more convenient and tidy. Astrology preceded astronomy, alchemy preceded chemistry and Jerry Baker precedes......(Insert your own term).

I was a true believer... until I tried it myself.
I've tried the beer+soap+mouthwash tonic for 2 full seasons on my bluegrass lawn. Yeah, it seemed to work, but I noticed much better, and faster results with one application of Scotts Turfbuilder.

TurningColorz

I just found this excerpt regarding A Master Gardener Program at UC Davis. I had no idea that I too could become a master gardener by next Saturday (grin). None-the-less if this is true, I will no longer question or doubt when one calls himself/herself a master gardener. ( I will just not put much weight on the claim).

Master Gardener Program

The trained volunteers of the UC Master Gardeners program extend the ability of local Cooperative Extension offices to provide practical scientific horticulture and gardening information to the citizens of California. If you have any questions please feel free to contact the master gardeners at (909)387-2182 or you can send them an email at mgsanber@ucdavis.edu. The office hours vary so please leave your name and phone number and we will be happy to return your call.

The Master Gardener program is a non-profit public service outreach program sponsored by University of California Cooperative Extension in which volunteers are trained to extend gardening information to the general public. Applicants accepted into the program receive 50 hours of classroom training and agree to provide a minimum of 50 volunteer hours by May 31, 2007 through approved Cooperative Extension educational activities (excludes manual labor). Daytime, evening, and weekend volunteer opportunities are available, including answering home gardening questions on an assigned office day in the Cooperative Extension office in San Bernardino or the satellite office in Chino, establishing school and community gardens, staffing booths at fairs and civic events, writing weekly newspaper articles, providing docent services, and serving as guest speakers at community-sponsored events. Master Gardeners in good standing may re certify each successive year after completing a minimum of 20 continuing education and 25 volunteer hours per year. There is a $90 fee due the first class period to defray expenses directly related to conducting the program. The fee includes the cost of the Master Gardener Handbook and additional handouts. If you are interested in becoming a Master Gardener but cannot afford this fee due to financial hardship, there are limited need-based scholarships available.

We are planning our next Master Gardener Certification Class series to begin in September 2008 through February 2009 on Monday evenings from 6:30-9:30 pm. Contact the Master Gardener Office at (909)387-2182 or by email at mgsanber@ucdavis.edu and leave your name and mailing address and email to be added to the mailing list.

"Applicants accepted into the program receive 50 hours of classroom training and agree to provide a minimum of 50 volunteer hours by May 31, 2007"

Unless you have access to a DeLorean and a broken courthouse clock, you'll be hard pressed to satisfy thee second half of the requirement.

I guess they could use some "master editors."

;-)

Jerry Baker still lives. Funny isn't it?

For a second Thursday, which is one of my 2 watering days by city rule, I sprayed my dry, thatchy 1,000sf front lawn with water, and a 50/50 mix of grape soda (grape soda is about the highest in sugar that you can get, and it's less than 70 cents for a 2-liter at "Wally World".), lemon ammonia, and a little Murphy's Oil Soap thrown in for softening and wetting.

2 weeks of that, and the grass is nicely green, NOT necessarily like a lush dark green swath of carpet, but not bad at all, considering-- also, most of the thatch is pretty much gone.

I started playing with Jerry Baker's advice, formulas, and ideas about 5 years ago, snapping up every one of his books that I came across in area thrift stores.

My front "lawn", in those days was, literally, a 1000sf Florida sandbox. It's come a long, LONG way since, thanks mostly to the late Mr. Baker, and it's been a heck of a lot of fun besides. A real kick for that little "mad chemist" wannabe in me.

If you read Baker's stuff, you will find out that, in the early days, he was just about as big into "hard-core" chemical use as anybody.

Gradually, his tone and his advice changed into a whole variety of the quirky formulas made from household items that are still going 'round and 'round, and are STILL bickered over regularly by both the chem-chumps and the organically-inclined.

Baker didn't live to see much but the beginnings of our latest "green revolution". He probably would have welcomed it to an extent, but then again. . .

Gradually, Baker dropped the worst and most expendable of the chemicals. I don't know specifically what it was that precipitated his personal revolution-- however, in the process, he obviously found himself a niche full of (maybe slightly nutty) do-it-yourselfers like himself, and gently guided, fed and nurtured a whole lot of folks with gardening insecurities-- like myself.

Call it whooey. if you want. Baker himself certainly doesn't care at this point.

Meanwhile, my own lawn is still far, FAR from perfect. Still, of those in my neighborhood, it isn't bad at all, hardly the worst to be seen. It mostly grows nicely, and a good bit of green, which may or may not be mostly bermuda grass, and nearly the entire 1000 sf is covered.

Further, it holds up pretty well despite 2-3 years of drought lately. All this with little more that some as much peat as I could afford to thrown at it, a little sulphur for further pH lowering ( because it started at over a 7), some once/twice a year amendments (amounting to roughly a dozen bags TOTAL of peat, topsoil, and composted manure). I WAS putting on as much as 20# of seed a year --could have used less, and had a lot more of it germinate maybe, AFTER a couple ton of amendments were rototilled in from , but I couldn't afford that.

Other than the above improvements, I used and still use some version of Jerry Baker's watering tonics for at least one of the 2 waterings a week that I am allowed. Last time I did any digging in my front lawn, I even found myself with a few genuine, live. wriggling EARTHWORMS trying to escape my excavation. Pretty cool, that, since the critters might as well have been a top endangered species when I first started working out there. The entire front yard was just that dead.

COULD IT HAVE BEEN DONE much faster, much easier, and with a whole lot more money spent on it? Sure! Absofreakinlutely. I could have just thrown down a bunch of St. Aug sod, and replaced it every few years when the inch of soil it comes with croaked from exhaustion, but hey-- where's the fun in that??

I could be wrong as it has been some time since I read Jerry's books and watched him on TV, but my recollection is that he never suggested that this tonic was the only thing to put on your lawn. I always used pelletized fertilizer and augmented it with these liquid home brewed tonics. Always had good results.

So, some may take Jerry's formulae with a grain of salt, but I would suggest that some of the self styled, overly analytical back yard chemists should perhaps try the formulas before they assess the results.

I always used pelletized fertilizer and augmented it with these liquid home brewed tonics. Always had good results.

Did you do one section without the "tonics" so you can determine whether maybe it was the pelletized fertilizer producing the results and not the "tonics"? If you apply fertilizer and then do a river dance on your lawn, it's not reasonable to conclude that doing a river dance on your lawn gets you good results.

I always thought his tonics were interesting. They weren't his main treatments. For example, he still recommended applying granular fertilizer... after, of course, you mix in some Epsom salts.

Mu understanding was that many of his tonics were meant to take care of some things on a small level. For example, the fall cleanup tonic with ammonia, soda, beer, etc. was to help breakdown the leaves faster by providing a little boost to the microbes, e.g. (Sugar+Enzymes+Nitrogen)+leaves=snack time for the soil.

I understood that he recommended the lemon scented dish soap and lemon scented mouthwash to help deter certain pests and animals that dislike lemon (e.g. Bugs, Cats)

I've always been skeptical of the effects that the dish soap has on the waxy cuticle that protects plants. (However, there seem to be plenty if people on this forum who recommend dish soap as a surfactant and also as a way to improve water penetration into the soil. ).

It seems to me that any type of soap would damage the protective waxy coating on grass blades, making the grass plant more susceptible to problems re: moisture retention, disease/fungus, and surface feeding insects...