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fourstringdrums

Frustrated about overseed job/landscaper

fourstringdrums
16 years ago

On August 28th I had my established rye/fescue/bluegrass (I believe) lawn overseeded by a local landscaping company. They cut the lawn short, fertilized and slit seeded, although they did leave some thatch/grass clippings on top of the soil. When I questioned it, I was told that they left some of it behind to hold in moisture as it was going to be really hot that day and throughout the week. I was told that if it was still a problem after the first mowing that they can come and get rid of it.

I mowed after about a week because the existing grass was growing so fast. I used a rider, and the landscaper said that it would be fine, to just be careful taking turns and what not. That seemed to get rid of most of the left behind clippings, but I started to notice that some of it was not matted down a bit in the thinner and more bare areas. I let it go.

When it came to watering I was doing it 3 times a day up until this past Monday because my bill was astronomical. In hind sight, I was watering too much, not to the point that I was having puddles on the lawn, but just from a waste perspective. I called the landscaper again and asked about it and he said I could cut it back to about 20-40 minutes per zone every other day, which I did. At this time I mentioned to him that I wasn't really seeing any germination in the thinner or bare areas, and I was concerned that the matted down thatch had something to do with it. He said he'd come out and look at it in a day or two and vacuum it up and slice seed more for free if need be.

Fast forward to now. The landscaper never came out at all this week, so I called him yesterday, and he always calls me back that day. No return phone call. I tried again today. No return phone call. So, while some may say I'm being impatient, I'm getting concerned that he didn't come out when he said he would, and he's not returning my calls in his regular manner. I have had trouble with other landscapers in the past of once they do the work and get their money, I haven't heard from them again. I may call a bit more if I have a question or concern, but I'm never pushy or rude about it. So I don't know if it's me or him, and I don't know if he's going to do what he said he was going to do.

So this has got me concerned. It will be a month on the 28th that the lawn was overseeded. I'm now at the point where I'm watering about 25-30 minutes every other day early in the morning, and while most of the lawn looks great, there are some prominent thin or downright bare areas that existed pre-slice seeding that still have not showed any signs of germination. Will the seed come up eventually or is that thatch stopping it from coming up?

I'm just nervous that I'm going to have spent $500 for the overseed and even more than that for the water (Yes...I know...read the thread I made on it) and I'm not going to get my money's worth. I don't want to spend more money next year to have these areas fixed, and I even wonder if the rest of the lawn is looking better because of the slice seeding or just from being fertilized.

I don't want to hound the landscaper any more, but I just feel that if he did a job and I followed his instructions and it didn't work, that he should make it right. If I can't get a hold of him I feel like I'm going to be stuck, and doing it myself is not an option.

Suggestions?

Comments (19)

  • paulinct
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think they call that the "taillight guaranty," meaning it lasts as long as you can see his taillights.

    Seriously, have those bare spots always been bare? If so you may have some "buried treasure" under those spots that no amount of reseeding will fix. I wonder because it sounds like you have been watering well and planted at the right time so should have good germination.

  • fourstringdrums
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The lawn was completely ripped up and redone last year, hydroseeded by another company. They tried slice seeding last year as well, but I did the lawn prep, and didn't bag my clippings, my mistake. They also slice seeded on October 1st and temps dropped soon after and we got a frost. The sprinkler setup I had didn't do a very good job of watering either, so nothing came up then. A bit came up in the spring, but not much. Thankfully then I only paid for the seed. That was another "guarantee" by this other company.

    When the lawn was put in these thinner or bare areas didn't get as much water so they've been like this pretty much since it was redone. The thing is that I don't see much or any germination in any of the thinner or bare spots in the yard. They did germinate in I'd say 94% of the property because the grass looks a bit fuller in my backyard where it didn't seem quite right compared to the front.

    I just don't know what to do if I don't hear back from this guy. It's the 3rd landscaper who has deemed himself unreliable in my area. He started off great up until after my check cleared. The funny thing is I already asked for a spring cleanup estimate and I haven't seen that either.

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  • rutgers1
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am in the "there is probably something wrong with those spots" camp. I overseeded last year and this year, and the same few spots won't grow grass. The vast majority of the bare spots are perfect now, but those few spots are still bare despite my best efforts. My guess is that there is something wrong with those areas - poor soil, poor drainage, or rocks too close to the surface.

  • fourstringdrums
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well the largest area in question does have some clumps of grass, and some various weeds, mostly crabgrass variety so it can grow SOMETHING there :)

    What would be the best way to repair these areas in the spring or even in trying dormant seeding? There is some thatch still on the ground that was left behind. I have a disability and use crutches so I need it to be the easiest process. Using a dethatcher and a slit seeder probably isn't an open. I didn't know if just raking the area up well, throwing down seed and then running over the area with my lawn tractor tires to "roll" the area would be good. Of course the seeding window in Massachusetts is probably pretty small at this point, so I would either do it as a dormant seed or in the spring.

  • nycjsw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How big are the "thin" areas you are mentioning? Not to be a jerk but you sound a bit like a baby. The guy cut your lawn short, slit seeded and fertilized your lawn. That does not sound unreasonable for $500. Did he also provide the seed? Having the perfect lawn takes a lot of work. If you could pay someone only $500 to have the perfect lawn, I think everyone would have one. I have the best lawn in my neighborhood and $500 is nothing. If you have a few thin spots - take out a garden rake, buy some top soil and a small bag of seed. As far as the water bill. Yes, seeds take water to grow. Maybe that is the landscapers fault too. Your post to me seems totally unwarranted. Remember, just like some people, lawns can be high maintenance. You stated you also had trouble with landscapers in the past. I have a feeling you will also have trouble if you use them in the future. Do the work yourself and you will have only yourself to blame.

  • mdr944
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey nycjsw...

    Did you read this member's last post?

    fourstringdrums stated" I have a disability and use crutches so I need it to be the easiest process."

    How about some compassion and understanding?!?!?!?

  • quirkyquercus
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can you post a photo of the bare spots?

  • nycjsw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "fourstringdrums stated" I have a disability and use crutches so I need it to be the easiest process."
    How about some compassion and understanding?!?!?!?"

    Obviously I did not see this part of his post. Although that does limit his ability to do certain things in his yard, I am sure he or his wife could throw seed down and lightly rake the thin areas. I interpreted his posts (multiple phone calls, multiple landscapers, pays a low price but expects the world) as him being pretty difficult to work with. The best way to get a job done right is to make them your buddy. That has always worked for me. Who would you do a better job for, someone who liked or someone who acted like a jerk and questioned everything you do?

    OT
    Example, I have a neighbor who is in a similar position as the poster. Since I have the best lawn she asked me if I would take care of her lawn. I thought it would not be too much trouble for me and I could use the extra money for different gadgets etc. I own a ZTR and a core aerator etc. Most people here pay $60 to have their lawns mowed. We have 1/2 to 5/8 acre lots and homes here start at around a million. She says she will give me $25 to mow her lawn. I said sure b/c I figured I would help her out and keep the price low so there would not be a lot of room for BS. After the 2nd time I mowed her lawn she stated "how about I pay you every 4 times so I can right 1 check". After the 4th time she rights a check for $95? and says something about helping me out giving me a large check at once. Keep in mind she chased off every landscaper b/c she complains nonstop. I told her 4x25=100. My lawn she admits looks great and I do everything to her lawn that I do to mine. But she won't stop complaining. I put seed, fertilizer and lime down for her. I get a call later in the afternoon with her complaining that she can't see it in the grass. She wants me to walk the lawn showing her spots with seed etc. Her lawn is thick so it is hard to see but I'm fighting telling her to FO. There was a point where she implied I might use her seed for my lawn (I did everything to my lawn a week before). I had gone to the store that day for her and bought all the product she needed and gave her a receipt. I even gave her the extra product that I did not use. Perhaps this poster reminds me too much of my neighbor but I see common traits.

  • fourstringdrums
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, let me clear a few things up regarding your assumptions about me. First, yes, I do have a disability. So when I said that I wasn't able to do an overseed myself, I was referring to slice seeding and that whole process. Raking up the area lightly and throwing down seed might take a little bit, but it's not outside my realm, so I can do that.

    Now when it comes to my landscaper troubles, I'm sorry but I am no where near your neighbor and her complaining. Here is my history. It's a bit long so bear with me:

    Landscaper One - This one did my hydroseed last year and did my fertilizer treatments. I started having problems toward the end of the year when I was told at the end of August that he would come out and do the job. I was told that he'd be out on such and such a week. 3-4 weeks go by and he still hadn't come out. I called him to find out when he was going to do the job we agreed on, and didn't get any response. To me that is not unreasonable. Finally he came out on October 1st. I didn't bag the clippings after I cut the grass (my fault), but more than that, because he did the slice seeding so late, we got a heavy frost about a week after he did it. At the time I was using above ground sprinklers and almost every morning my hoses were frozen. I knew that the seed was lost, atleast for the fall. After about 2 weeks of seeing absolutely nothing in terms of germination, and being told that he would be out to do a winter fertilizer and that not happening, I called and didn't hear anything back. I called again at the end of March when things were warming up just to make sure that I was on the spring cleanup list and to verify that I did want them to handle my fertilizing. No response for two weeks. Finally I got ahold of them and was told that he'd be out within a week. He doesn't show and by the end of April I finally find out that he has so many customers that he's back logged and won't get to me for another month, JUST for the spring cleanup. The fertilizer would wait longer. Seeing as I wasn't going to have a lawn full of sticks, pinecones and leaves until June and miss my window completely for spring fertilizing I got someone else.

    Landscaper Two - This landscaper I called to replace the one that bailed. It was now May and he came out, gave me an estimate and did my spring cleanup/fertilization. I did call him a few times before he came out to inquire about extra things I wanted him to do, handling a dandelion problem I had etc.. Nothing that a landscaper shouldn't want to gladly answer. After all, if you can't call someone who is knowledgeable about these issues with a question, they're not very good businessmen right? He came out a week or two later to do a grub treatment, and he told me in the beginning of July he'd be back out to do my summer fertilizer (I was about a month behind the rest of his customers thanks to Landscaper One). By the mid-end of July he still hadn't made an appearance. I called him once a week for two weeks to find out when he was coming out. My lawn was in dire need of fertilizing. No response. Finally I gave up and said I was going to do it myself. I called him to tell him to forgot and low and behold, two hours later he called me telling me he'd be out the next day, and was practically begging for my business when I said I was doing it myself.

    Landscaper Three - This is the lanscaper in question now. I called him at the beginning of August to get the slice seed estimate, which he came out and gave me. He did the slice seed when promised, and afterwards actually returned my calls, usually that night. I only called a few times 1) To ask how much I should be watering. I know I can look it up here, but I felt more comfortable asking someone who is in my area and knows what works best for how they overseed and the conditions around here. I got an answer to my question. On the same call I also mentioned how there were a ton of that and grass clippings on top of the soil. I was told that because it was so warm, they left them there to help hold in moisture a bit. He told me that if after a week or so when I mowed if they were still a problem he'd come out and vac them up. He said "If you ever have a question or need anything - call me". Well just this last Monday goes by and I notice that while most of those clippings either broke down or got chopped up more while mowing, some of the thinner areas now had the clippings matted down from when I mowed. I also was not noticing much germination. There were some small areas where I saw absolutely nothing, and just a few where I saw very small amounts of germination. One of the larger areas in question had next to no new germination. I had always thought that after slice seeding I'd see the new seed in rows and what not, and I was not seeing that. I was barely seeing patchy germination. I wondered if some of the left behind thatch and clippings had a hand in that. So I called and he said that he'd be out in a day or two to cut the lawn again, vac the clippings and slice seed a bit more. By Thursday he still hadn't come and my lawn was getting really long. I didn't want to waste my time cutting it if he was going to come out that day. I also forgot to ask him if I should mark my sprinkler heads again if he was going to be slice seeding for a second time, so I called. As of now I still haven't heard anything, and this was from a guy who called the night I left a message every single time.

    Now granted, I may be a bit impatient and should just wait for him to call, but I just find it odd that not only did he not come out when he said he was going to, but his usual pattern of return messages changed, at the exact same time my check cleared. So yes, maybe it is my fault for not being a bit more patient and waiting for him to get a hold of me instead of posting here, but I am seeing another pattern compared to the other landscapers.

    I'll admit that I may call with questions more than most customers, but I am NOT like your neighbor. I don't question every thing they do and complain with ridiculous complaints like "I can't see the grass seed!". I forgot to mention that I've asked this guy for an estimate for spring cleanup and still haven't received that. I'm sorry but I am a customer who is not being demanding and is not complaining every other day. I am just a person who tends to have honest questions and just like to know that I'm getting what I pay for After 3 weeks if I'm seeing little to no germination in most areas, especially if those areas are covered in left behind clippings from the work that HE did, I'm going to ask about it. I don't care if you think I shouldn't be complaining for $500. I know great lawns don't happen over night, and my lawn is great for the most part, it's just these stubborn areas I'm trying to have fixed. $500 is $500. If I pay it, and I see little results for the work done, I'm going to feel like I didn't get what I paid for. That amount of money may not be a lot to you, but it's a lot to me if I'm going to pay it and basically feel like I just flushed it down the toilet.

    As for pics of the bare spots, I'll try and get some tomorrow. I took a more objective look yesterday and I am feeling a little better about what germination I am seeing, but am still frustrated that I'm not seeing the lines of germination that you should see after overseeding. Instead it's very thin and patchy, and with me only having to water every other day now for about another week, I'm just wondering if the rest will even come up at all. Raking and sewing seed next year isn't a huge deal, but I feel like after having the whole lawn overseeded, the areas that were thin and bare before overseeding sould have improved more than they are.

  • rutgers1
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It has been days since I have read the first post in this thread (I only come back for the new ones), so I might be missing something, but here are my thoughts as they relate to the last few:

    1) To the guy in the million dollar neighborhood: If you can afford to live there, it seems like you don't need the $25 and headaches from that woman, lol.

    2) To the original poster, I think the problem is that most landscapers are not very good businessmen. On top of that, there is so much competition that their prices have to be low - so low that they can't afford to call people back to answer questions, and so low that they can't really take an interest in your lawn beyond the applications that they put down. In other words, if the slice seeding didn't work, then he takes it that either you didn't water properly or that there is something wrong with your soil (two very real possibilities). And since you didn't pay him to water it or amend the soil, then the problem is your problem (at least that's the way he would see it).

    3) In a perfect world, overseeding would always lead to a perfect lawn. It just doesn't work that way. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And even when it works, it doesn't work 100% of the time. Either YOU have to be a fanatic about it (amending the soil, watering properly, repairing bare spots) or you have to pay someone who will be the fanatic for you. But one thing is for sure - a low paid landscaper won't be that person for you.

    4) I don't use a landscaper, but I totally understand the position that you are in. If I had a disability, I would do it - and I definitely would not be happy with the first two guys you used. I just think you have to keep looking around until you find the right company.

  • nycjsw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "1) To the guy in the million dollar neighborhood: If you can afford to live there, it seems like you don't need the $25 and headaches from that woman, lol."

    Correct, I was trying to be helpful b/c her landscaper stopped coming. I guess you are right. Once this season ends I'm done. I was not going to just donate my time and equipment. Even if I did I'm sure she would complain. I don't actually mind the work it's just the BS that comes with it. Perhaps next year I'll charge her by the complaint.

  • fourstringdrums
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well I've decided that I'm done with landscapers. Come next year I'm not even hiring one for cleanup. I'm getting a lawn sweeper and/or a bagger. If the lawn needs dethatching, I'll either hire someone to just do that or if I have to, I'll get an attachment for my mower. Then when it comes to fixing any other areas, I'll either rake, fertilize, and seed in those areas myself, or I'll cut short over a few days, bag clippings, fertilize and rent a slice seeder that is as easily maneuverable as possible.

    My main problem is that I'm not able to walk around for a long time and doing some things that require two hands don't come very easy. Before I got my rider, I couldn't mow my .25 acre lawn without being unable to walk the next day. But if it means that its going to take two days to do something instead of one, I'd rather save my money and my headache and do it myself instead of hiring someone and dealing with the "after the check clears" b.s. that seems to come with it.

    You know, just as long as people here aren't irritated by a lot of questions from a newbie.

  • nycjsw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Well I've decided that I'm done with landscapers. Come next year I'm not even hiring one for cleanup. I'm getting a lawn sweeper and/or a bagger. If the lawn needs dethatching, I'll either hire someone to just do that or if I have to, I'll get an attachment for my mower."

    That's a good idea. With an irrigation system your lawn should hold up better year round. I have a tow behind core aerator and a dethatcher. They are both made by Brinly and do a good job. Although I think you can still have a good lawn without doing these steps it does make the lawn healthier. Look on the tractor forum for more info. I also have a mulching deck and mulch my leaves. This and preventing crabgrass are probably the most important things to keeping your lawn looking nice. I put my seed down last weekend and it is already coming up. We had a really bad drought here in August and 100+ temps but with everything I did last weekend (aeration, seed, lime, starter fertilizer)my lawn looks better than ever.

  • paulinct
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fourstringdrums, lots of people here will be glad to answer all your questions, you are in good hands here, keep them coming!

    Glad you are posting here, you seem like a gentleman/gentlelady (can't tell the gender from your posts, if I missed a hint please don't take offense)!

    Paul

  • fourstringdrums
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Paul, I'm a gentleman, and thank you :)

    Nycjsw - I was looking at that Brinly dethatcher as well as their lawn sweeper. I think both may be on my list.

    Can the dethatcher serve as a way to overseed by cutting short, bagging the clippings, and then running driving around with the dethatcher and afterwards broadcasting seed and rolling it? Although I wonder how you manage to create straight rows with a town behind dethatcher on a rider. I can't even mow in straight rows, I have to do the zamboni mowing method because of the layout of my property.

  • morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Can the dethatcher serve as a way to overseed by cutting short, bagging the clippings, and then running driving around with the dethatcher and afterwards broadcasting seed and rolling it?

    Yep, that's exactly what I did. Don't worry about straight lines. A lot of mine looked like spaghetti strands, going every which way, just because of the way I had to do some of the areas. The seed came up just fine.

  • nycjsw
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Although I wonder how you manage to create straight rows with a town behind dethatcher on a rider. I can't even mow in straight rows, I have to do the zamboni mowing method because of the layout of my property."

    Like what Morph said, the straight rows don't really matter that much. Once the grass comes in you can't tell what pattern it was planted. We had our house built 1.5 years ago. So I've been going all out to get it in prime shape. We had sod in most of our yard but the first summer (last year) crabgrass totally took over my front yard. We did not actually move in until the fall but closed in late spring so I was not there to take care of the yard. Just now does the front look as good as other areas. It took a year to clean up the crabgrass problem. Next year I'm going to start scaling back what I do b/c I now have what I call a solid base. My lawn looks perfect (to me) in every area. Now I know during the summer it might thin out a little in some areas or a dog may mess up a spot but the amount of seed I buy each year is going to be cut in half. Oh yeah, one other thing. My lawn is very healthy and during the droughts I usually only watered 2-3 times a week. My water bill (3 months) was usually under $200 while some of my neighbors were >$500. Read some of the threads about watering and training your roots to grow down deep into the soil. Frequent watering can create shallow roots.

    The dethatcher is a very helpful tool and I'm always shocked at how much crap it pulls up out of the yard. Although I think the aerator has done the most to make my yard thick and green. This is not recommended but I used my aerator in July b/c my lawn was burning/turning brown and no amount of water would help. I aerated and applied a summer fertilizer and watered it really good. Within a week my lawn and bounced back and looked great. A few of the neighbors asked me what I did so I did their yard and got the same results.

  • eastpenna
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    fourstringdrums,

    Sears has a dethatcher that actually goes on the front of a lawn sweeper, they also have one that goes on the front of Craftsman and Husqvarna brand riding tractors. Either way you could dethatch and sweep at the same time. See Attachments

  • quirkyquercus
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    nycjsw, you should have brought out one of those giant bags of rice that aid organizations ship over to 3rd world countries and told the neighbor, "This is a brand new bag of the highest quality seed and I'm going to spread it right now in front of you so you know it's going out"

    And would it matter if it was a million dollar neighborhood or not? Nowadays with all that sub prime lending, in many parts of the country, people who couldn't afford even much lower priced housing were enabled to purchase. And since they can barely hang on with the payments of the house, the last thing in the world they're thinking of is maintaining the lawn. And this can happen in any neighborhood.